PNW Riders

The good looking ugly guy · 06-28-2009, 07:13 PM

or atleast its not legal to hold up in court

read the rcw it reads

(b) For any person to operate a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle which does not have a windshield unless wearing glasses, goggles, or a face shield of a type conforming to rules adopted by the state patrol;

definition

The windshield or windscreen of an aircraft, automobile, bus, motorcycle, or tram is the front window. Modern windshields are generally made of laminated safety glass, a type of treated glass, which consists of two (typically) curved sheets of glass with a plastic layer laminated between them for safety, and are glued into the window frame.

Motorcycle windshields are often made of high-impact acrylic plastic. As the name implies, their main function is to shield the driver from the wind, though they do not do so as totally as those of a car, whereas on sports and racing motorcycles the main function is improving the drag coefficient when the rider assumes the most aerodynamic optimal configuration of his body in unison with the machine and does not shield the rider from wind when sitting upright.

as I read it and read the rcw there is so much left out, that the current rcw allows any motorcycle that has any sort of windshelid to fall under the guidelines of having a sheild. so therefore any tickett should not be able to hold up in court.

although I would like to see the states legal definition of awindsheild

I have a wind shield on my bike, is a sport bikes clear shield called a windsheild if so I would goto court and fight any tickets given out for open visor.

but thats just me, although a motorcycle windsheild does not protect you from the elements as I read it and on my other post wich noone has answered any windsheild is legal

I am not an attourney I do not pratice law I just read the rcw

FatMatt · 06-28-2009, 07:31 PM

I believe the windscreen has to protect your eyes from wind & debris to count. If not you have to have some sort of eye protection, but this is only my interpretation.

mikefsu · 06-28-2009, 07:34 PM

This is how I look at it. Its your eyes and your life. Roll the dice chance will eventually catch up.

The good looking ugly guy · 06-28-2009, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by FatMatt

I believe the windscreen has to protect your eyes from wind & debris to count. If not you have to have some sort of eye protection, but this is only my interpretation.

read how the rcw is written thats what holds up in court

Plummy · 06-28-2009, 07:38 PM

if you want to get technical and go by the rcw's, this one states that you can be ticketed for not having a windshield wiper on your bike:

RCW 46.37.410

(3) The windshield on every motor vehicle shall be equipped with a device for cleaning rain, snow, or other moisture from the windshield, which device shall be so constructed as to be controlled or operated by the driver of the vehicle. After January 1, 1938, it shall be unlawful for any person to operate a new motor vehicle first sold or delivered after that date which is not equipped with such device or devices in good working order capable of cleaning the windshield thereof over two separate arcs, one each on the left and right side of the windshield, each capable of cleaning a surface of not less than one hundred twenty square inches, or other device or devices capable of accomplishing substantially the same result.

which kind of puts the "windshield" on bikes moot and devoids the definition of bikes having an actual windshield and rather a windscreen. (i'm sure there are other definition sources out there that will tell you the difference between a windshield and a windscreen, btw)

cause there's no cleaning ability except by your hand.

or a deer.

CodeBlue · 06-28-2009, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by plummy

or a deer.

The good looking ugly guy · 06-28-2009, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by Plummy

if you want to get technical and go by the rcw's, this one states that you can be ticketed for not having a windshield wiper on your bike:

RCW 46.37.410

which kind of puts the "windshield" on bikes moot and devoids the definition of bikes having an actual windshield and rather a windscreen. (i'm sure there are other definition sources out there that will tell you the difference between a windshield and a windscreen, btw)

cause there's no cleaning ability except by your hand.

or a deer.

plummy why are you giving them ideas sheesh your pro government arn't you lol

CodeBlue · 06-28-2009, 07:52 PM

Besides, if you can't talk your way out of an open visor ticket then you don't deserve to be riding.

How hard is "Oh, I knew something was wrong, thanks for pointing it out, officer. It won't happen again, I can assure you."?

FlyingWheelsCycleCourier · 06-28-2009, 08:28 PM

who cares. you have to be an idiot or live in a small town to get warned once for it then pulled over again later and ticketed.

oh yeah i love it when bees or bugs go in my freaking eyes or when then get jetted in between my helmet padding and face and go directly into my ear/canal.

i was on the freeway once behind a truck and watched what looked like (not exageratting) a 2 inch rock come out, bounce off the road, and fly 3 feet next to my head.

ive also been hit in the face by small pebbles while riding in town with my VISOR UP & DOWN ( not limited to one occasion ) AND GLASSES ON.

i was pulled over when i got off the freeway a while back, my visor was plastered in bugs so i popped it up and wiped it while i rode and popped it down. sure enough a cop passed me while i was executing this manuever and told me blah blah blah visor/glasses. basic endorsement check and not having the visor down w/o glasses is illegal. screw the law im worried about my body. we all know in the summer months the bugs are thick.

im not with the cops here, im just saying its a terrible idea regardless if you dont like bugs in your ears or crap of many sorts in your eyes.

<----------------always riding with the visor down (95%) or glasses (5%).

coastiepete · 06-28-2009, 08:30 PM

Anybody here that thinks being pulled over for a visor up is ANYTHING other than an endorsement check? Or a reason to harass a sportbiker?

2 of us got pulled over for it in Lake Chelan during EMW2K9. while we were sitting at a stoplight, talking about where the damn ice cream place was. After the fat ass (really, not a joke, he was obese) cop ran our stuff, he let us 2 hooligans go.......with directions to the ice cream joint..........

Shrek X · 06-28-2009, 08:36 PM

yea, and you can print this thread and take it to court with you, the judge will say.... Oh, yea, well if The good looking ugly guy said it, and we know he is an expert in the law, then it must be true.

The only person who decides what is legal or not, is the judge and on any given day that may change. take your chances with this advice, or dont... have a good day

The good looking ugly guy · 06-28-2009, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Shrek X

yea, and you can print this thread and take it to court with you, the judge will say.... Oh, yea, well if The good looking ugly guy said it, and we know he is an expert in the law, then it must be true.

The only person who decides what is legal or not, is the judge and on any given day that may change. take your chances with this advice, or dont... have a good day

aparently he only skims thru threads and does not completly read thourghly thru the complte thread

piss on the oca

FlyingWheelsCycleCourier · 06-28-2009, 09:05 PM

no offense but the thread is dead as far as im concerned.

dont wear glasses/wear visor, get shit in your eyes and possibly eat it.

wear it, dont.

fuck the cops and court theyll ticket you for anything. theyll come up with anything to endorsement check you. its about personal responsability and safety. whatever you desire.

xrdotimcr · 06-28-2009, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by FatMatt

I believe the windscreen has to protect your eyes from wind & debris to count. If not you have to have some sort of eye protection, but this is only my interpretation.

Negative. According to multiple bike cops who shall not be named from the Bremerton PD, a windshield is a windshield, does not have to cover your eyes. But like previously stated, it's your eyes. I have mine up only when stopped at a light or starting off from a light. as soon as I shift into second I pop it down. 99% of the time I have some sort of glasses on, clear, lightly tinted, sun glasses. Whatever, something is always on, my eyes are sensitive.

Nefarious · 06-28-2009, 09:39 PM

I've seen this "defense" Fail in court in Arizona, the judge saw it differently then you guys seem to, I wouldn't rely on this "technicality" to get you out...

Best thing you can do is stop being a squid, wear a full face helmet and keep your visor down.

Bottom Line, OP isn't a lawyer and this entire thread is absolutely useless.

Shrek X · 06-28-2009, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by The good looking ugly guy

aparently he only skims thru threads and does not completly read thourghly thru the complte thread

piss on the oca

now what do you have against the Organic Consumers Association

james1300 · 06-28-2009, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by mikefsu

This is how I look at it. Its your eyes and your life. Roll the dice chance will eventually catch up.

That doesnt help the people around you when you catch debris in your eye's?

james1300 · 06-28-2009, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Nefarious

I've seen this "defense" Fail in court in Arizona, the judge saw it differently then you guys seem to, I wouldn't rely on this "technicality" to get you out...

Best thing you can do is stop being a squid, wear a full face helmet and keep your visor down.

Bottom Line, OP isn't a lawyer and this entire thread is absolutely useless.

Or wear glasses under your helmet, so you can raise your visor and still meet the requirement?

Lynk · 06-28-2009, 10:57 PM

I'm surprised that nobody has derailed this thread through mention of the novelty helmet in old-boy's avatar.

Shrek X · 06-28-2009, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Lynk

I'm surprised that nobody has derailed this thread through mention of the novelty helmet in old-boy's avatar.

pretty sure its DOT, you can tell because it gives him a mushroom head.. the novelty helmets dont.

JTR · 06-29-2009, 12:59 AM

Im pretty sure (ok, just kinda) when I was taking the states required test to get my endorsement, it said to crack open my visor in the event of my shit fogging up... my lid has a lever just for this

but I also remember hearing peeps getting ticketed for it..

shits messed up sometimes

JayD1981 · 06-29-2009, 01:40 AM

You need to read the WAC's also, they define the terms. The specific WAC for motorcycles states it must cover something like the bottom of your nose to your eyebrow. Its too late for me to research it but if you were able to find the RCW, you should be able to find the WAC also.

Rippn · 06-29-2009, 01:53 AM

Lynk... snicker snicker...
ain't funny how the most indignant are the ones, TRY'n to get outta wear'n gear... justifing it w/ there "intellegent" argument. Oxy morons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
Bwhahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FREE and clean, Ripp'n

Gusgus · 06-29-2009, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by Rippn

Lynk... snicker snicker...
ain't funny how the most indignant are the ones, TRY'n to get outta wear'n gear... justifing it w/ there "intellegent" argument. Oxy morons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
Bwhahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FREE and clean, Ripp'n

I support arguing laws which aren't any of the cops business.

I agree eye protection is best, but those unprotected eyes aren't mine.
However I would go to jail to simply fight along side of anyone with a reason to ignore the law.

The freedom issue is enough for my support.

cal_look_zero · 06-29-2009, 02:12 AM

Seriously...? You mother lovers up north get ticketed for having an open visor??? Pllease inform me when someone finally files a class action against the state for profiling, I want all the juicy details.

xltman8 · 06-29-2009, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Gusgus

I support arguing laws which aren't any of the cops business.

I agree eye protection is best, but those unprotected eyes aren't mine.
However I would go to jail to simply fight along side of anyone with a reason to ignore the law.

The freedom issue is enough for my support.

So you want to argue against SAFETY equipment??? This is EXACTLY the type of attitude that causes Motorcyclists problems with LEO's.

When do the rest of the motorists get to have the freedom of not watching you swerve into their lane because you got something in your eyes and cannot control your vehicle??? What gets to happen to you when you kill someone because you wanted to argue against ignoring the law on a BS FREEDOM excuse??

Also, the LEO's are there to not only help but to keep the roads safe for all vehicles and motorists, It is their BUSINESS, to support and ENFORCE the laws/codes.

Gusgus · 06-29-2009, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by xltman8

So you want to argue against SAFETY equipment??? This is EXACTLY the type of attitude that causes Motorcyclists problems with LEO's.

When do the rest of the motorists get to have the freedom of not watching you swerve into their lane because you got something in your eyes and cannot control your vehicle??? What gets to happen to you when you kill someone because you wanted to argue against ignoring the law on a BS FREEDOM excuse??

Also, the LEO's are there to not only help but to keep the roads safe for all vehicles and motorists, It is their BUSINESS, to support and ENFORCE the laws/codes.

Safety equipment is not the governments place to dictate, period.

It is and should be personal choice.

These buffoons you believe are there for your safety are there for city revenue. Your sponge mind has been brainwashed to believe taxes are good, and tickets when there are no victims are best.

One last thing remain in school, as I never said I would argue safety equipments use.

Pointman · 06-29-2009, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Gusgus

Safety equipment is not the governments place to dictate, period.

It is and should be personal choice.

.

GixxerPete · 06-29-2009, 09:01 AM

Wow check out all the utterly clueless gear Nazis in this thread.

You do realize nobody here is advocating riding without a visor, or are you really that dense? It's about bullshit tickets for people wearing a full face helmet on a bike that has a windshield when they are stopped at a light or crawling in slow traffic.

So are you Nazis really going to tell me you sit a stop lights with your visors down the entire time? Or going 2 mph in stop and go traffic? Yeah, you're at a HUGE risk for getting flying debris in your eyes at 0-2 mph aren't you?

Get a clue, it's a bullshit way to harrass motorcyclists, particularly sport bike riders. It is NOT about safety one teeny tiny bit.

Bofire · 06-29-2009, 09:09 AM

CHANGE IN 2009 *** (SEE 5482.SL) ***

(1) It is unlawful:

(a) For any person to operate a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle not equipped with mirrors on the left and right sides of the motorcycle which shall be so located as to give the driver a complete view of the highway for a distance of at least two hundred feet to the rear of the motorcycle or motor-driven cycle: PROVIDED, That mirrors shall not be required on any motorcycle or motor-driven cycle over twenty-five years old originally manufactured without mirrors and which has been restored to its original condition and which is being ridden to or from or otherwise in conjunction with an antique or classic motorcycle contest, show, or other such assemblage: PROVIDED FURTHER, That no mirror is required on any motorcycle manufactured prior to January 1, 1931;

(b) For any person to operate a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle which does not have a windshield unless wearing glasses, goggles, or a face shield of a type conforming to rules adopted by the state patrol;

(c) For any person to operate or ride upon a motorcycle, motor-driven cycle, or moped on a state highway, county road, or city street unless wearing upon his or her head a motorcycle helmet except when the vehicle is an antique motor-driven cycle or automobile that is licensed as a motorcycle or when the vehicle is equipped with seat belts and roll bars approved by the state patrol. The motorcycle helmet neck or chin strap must be fastened securely while the motorcycle or motor-driven cycle is in motion. Persons operating electric-assisted bicycles shall comply with all laws and regulations related to the use of bicycle helmets;

(d) For any person to transport a child under the age of five on a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle;

(e) For any person to sell or offer for sale a motorcycle helmet that does not meet the requirements established by this section.

(2) The state patrol may adopt and amend rules, pursuant to the Administrative Procedure Act, concerning standards for glasses, goggles, and face shields.

(3) For purposes of this section, "motorcycle helmet" means a protective covering for the head consisting of a hard outer shell, padding adjacent to and inside the outer shell, and a neck or chin strap type retention system, with a sticker indicating that the motorcycle helmet meets standards established by the United States Department of Transportation.

[2003 c 197 § 1; 1997 c 328 § 4; 1990 c 270 § 7. Prior: 1987 c 454 § 1; 1987 c 330 § 732; 1986 c 113 § 8; 1982 c 77 § 7; 1977 ex.s. c 355 § 55; 1971 ex.s. c 150 § 1; 1969 c 42 § 1; 1967 c 232 § 4.]

Notes:

You guys are citing the wrong section.remember in law you must use the 'most specific' and "most restrictive' this section, above,is from the motorcycle section or the "most specific". Looks to me that they can cite and enforce.
Carl

and here is what it says in the newest DOL motorcycle handbook.

Eye and face protection
A plastic shatter-resistant faceshield can help protect
your whole face in a collision. It also protects you from
wind, dust, dirt, rain, insects, and pebbles thrown up from
cars ahead. These problems are distracting and can be
painful. If you have to deal with them, you can’t devote
your full attention to the road.
Goggles protect your eyes, though they won’t protect the
rest of your face like a faceshield does. A windshield is not
a substitute for a faceshield or goggles. Most windshields
will not protect your eyes from the wind. Neither will
eyeglasses or sunglasses. Glasses won’t keep your eyes
from watering, and they might blow off when you turn
your head while riding.
To be effective, eye or faceshield protection must:
• be free of scratches.
• be resistant to penetration.
• give a clear view to either side.
• fasten securely, so it does not blow off.
• permit air to pass through, to reduce fogging.
• permit enough room for eyeglasses or sunglasses, if
needed.
Tinted eye protection should not be worn at night or any
other time when little light is available.

brianaintright · 06-29-2009, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by GixxerPete

Wow check out all the utterly clueless gear Nazis in this thread.

You do realize nobody here is advocating riding without a visor, or are you really that dense? It's about bullshit tickets for people wearing a full face helmet on a bike that has a windshield when they are stopped at a light or crawling in slow traffic.

So are you Nazis really going to tell me you sit a stop lights with your visors down the entire time? Or going 2 mph in stop and go traffic? Yeah, you're at a HUGE risk for getting flying debris in your eyes at 0-2 mph aren't you?

Get a clue, it's a bullshit way to harrass motorcyclists, particularly sport bike riders. It is NOT about safety one teeny tiny bit.

Under those circumstances, I'd agree. 45 mph, not so much.

Nefarious · 06-29-2009, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Gusgus

Safety equipment is not the governments place to dictate, period.

It is and should be personal choice.

Doesn't change the fact running around without eye protection puts other people at danger not just yourself.

This is somthing the government shouldn't have to dictate, you're on about respecting motorcyclists, well it's not very respectful to be a moron in a half helmet and catch debris in the face and wipe out in front of me causing me to wipe out. And yes, I've had it happen, barely got out of it without crashing.

I don't give a flying hootenanny about your personal safety, it's mine I'm concerned about.

GixxerPete · 06-29-2009, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by brianaintright

Under those circumstances, I'd agree. 45 mph, not so much.

Well I can't speak for all of us visor scofflaws, but 5-10 mph is about the limit of visor-up riding for me, after that it's down. By 45 mph I'm usually clicking the "lock" on the visor.

I'd have no problem with someone getting pulled over for 45 mph with visor up and no other protection. But stopped at a light or in stop-n-go traffic? No way, but that's where it happens most.

RedVFR · 06-29-2009, 09:31 AM

A ticket for visor up (or lack of eye protection) at a stop is utter and complete bullshit and is just an excuse to pull over for an endorsement check. Low speed crawl through traffic, you're starting to push your luck, but it's still bullshit. Ride with the visor up and no eye protection at your own risk, I say. Even at city speeds, I've had dust and bugs get in my eyes with my visor open more than just a crack.

Rashnak · 06-29-2009, 09:35 AM

I have a flip face helmet and a windshield.

I enjoy the breeze in my face up to about 30-35 mph, then I flip down the visor.

Works for me.

slugsgomoo · 06-29-2009, 10:25 AM

i have my visor up at low speeds because when it's down and there is no airflow I get claustrophobic and can't breathe

MikieTaps · 06-29-2009, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Gusgus

Safety equipment is not the governments place to dictate, period.

It is and should be personal choice.

These buffoons you believe are there for your safety are there for city revenue. Your sponge mind has been brainwashed to believe taxes are good, and tickets when there are no victims are best.

One last thing remain in school, as I never said I would argue safety equipments use.

Nicegy525 · 06-29-2009, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Gusgus

Safety equipment is not the governments place to dictate, period.

It is and should be personal choice.

IMO thats only half the equation. Yes it should be personal choice to wear safety gear, that is to say, govt should not have the authority to make personal decisions for us.

However, while it should be our right to choose, it is also our responsibility to make the right decision.

When you tie in repercussions that affect more than just the idiot who dies from not wearing a helmet, I can see why govt's step in to control and mandate safety procedures.

Originally Posted by Bofire

CHANGE IN 2009 *** (SEE 5482.SL) ***

(1) It is unlawful:

(a) For any person to operate a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle not equipped with mirrors on the left and right sides of the motorcycle which shall be so located as to give the driver a complete view of the highway for a distance of at least two hundred feet to the rear of the motorcycle or motor-driven cycle: PROVIDED, That mirrors shall not be required on any motorcycle or motor-driven cycle over twenty-five years old originally manufactured without mirrors and which has been restored to its original condition and which is being ridden to or from or otherwise in conjunction with an antique or classic motorcycle contest, show, or other such assemblage: PROVIDED FURTHER, That no mirror is required on any motorcycle manufactured prior to January 1, 1931;

(b) For any person to operate a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle which does not have a windshield unless wearing glasses, goggles, or a face shield of a type conforming to rules adopted by the state patrol;

(c) For any person to operate or ride upon a motorcycle, motor-driven cycle, or moped on a state highway, county road, or city street unless wearing upon his or her head a motorcycle helmet except when the vehicle is an antique motor-driven cycle or automobile that is licensed as a motorcycle or when the vehicle is equipped with seat belts and roll bars approved by the state patrol. The motorcycle helmet neck or chin strap must be fastened securely while the motorcycle or motor-driven cycle is in motion. Persons operating electric-assisted bicycles shall comply with all laws and regulations related to the use of bicycle helmets;

(d) For any person to transport a child under the age of five on a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle;

(e) For any person to sell or offer for sale a motorcycle helmet that does not meet the requirements established by this section.

(2) The state patrol may adopt and amend rules, pursuant to the Administrative Procedure Act, concerning standards for glasses, goggles, and face shields.

(3) For purposes of this section, "motorcycle helmet" means a protective covering for the head consisting of a hard outer shell, padding adjacent to and inside the outer shell, and a neck or chin strap type retention system, with a sticker indicating that the motorcycle helmet meets standards established by the United States Department of Transportation.

[2003 c 197 § 1; 1997 c 328 § 4; 1990 c 270 § 7. Prior: 1987 c 454 § 1; 1987 c 330 § 732; 1986 c 113 § 8; 1982 c 77 § 7; 1977 ex.s. c 355 § 55; 1971 ex.s. c 150 § 1; 1969 c 42 § 1; 1967 c 232 § 4.]

Notes:

You guys are citing the wrong section.remember in law you must use the 'most specific' and "most restrictive' this section, above,is from the motorcycle section or the "most specific". Looks to me that they can cite and enforce.
Carl

and here is what it says in the newest DOL motorcycle handbook.

Eye and face protection
A plastic shatter-resistant faceshield can help protect
your whole face in a collision. It also protects you from
wind, dust, dirt, rain, insects, and pebbles thrown up from
cars ahead. These problems are distracting and can be
painful. If you have to deal with them, you can’t devote
your full attention to the road.
Goggles protect your eyes, though they won’t protect the
rest of your face like a faceshield does. A windshield is not
a substitute for a faceshield or goggles. Most windshields
will not protect your eyes from the wind. Neither will
eyeglasses or sunglasses. Glasses won’t keep your eyes
from watering, and they might blow off when you turn
your head while riding.
To be effective, eye or faceshield protection must:
• be free of scratches.
• be resistant to penetration.
• give a clear view to either side.
• fasten securely, so it does not blow off.
• permit air to pass through, to reduce fogging.
• permit enough room for eyeglasses or sunglasses, if
needed.
Tinted eye protection should not be worn at night or any
other time when little light is available.

That is the accurate info for this thread. The law states for motorcyclists that If you do not have a full DOT legal face shield, you are required to wear safety eye protection that meets or exceeds state standards.

james1300 · 06-29-2009, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by nefarious

doesn't change the fact running around without eye protection puts other people at danger not just yourself.

This is somthing the government shouldn't have to dictate, you're on about respecting motorcyclists, well it's not very respectful to be a moron in a half helmet and catch debris in the face and wipe out in front of me causing me to wipe out. And yes, i've had it happen, barely got out of it without crashing.

I don't give a flying hootenanny about your personal safety, it's mine i'm concerned about.

Gusgus · 06-29-2009, 01:44 PM

In all my miles I have never seen a motorcyclist cause anyone issue because of a lack of eye protection.

The possibilities are certainly there, although so are bees flying into open collars which occur often and I have witnessed crashes caused by them, many times.

There are many issues which cause motorcyclists to create traffic collisions due to inadequate clothing, inadequate maintenance, anger, aggression, misplaced competition and poor riding style.

The ignorance spoken here about visors should then be applied to proper gear, advanced training, anger management, drug and alcohol testing or psychiatric evaluations before riding should then be supported by each of you?

If you can advance the revenue building and flat out untruth to call it "SAFETY" you then are full of shit when all the rest is exposed.

HYPOCRITES!


06-28-2009, 07:13 PM	#1
The good looking ugly guy Training Wheels Joined: May 2008 From: Ritzville washington I Ride: 96 intruder	open visor tickets not legal or atleast its not legal to hold up in court read the rcw it reads (b) For any person to operate a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle which does not have a windshield unless wearing glasses, goggles, or a face shield of a type conforming to rules adopted by the state patrol; definition The windshield or windscreen of an aircraft, automobile, bus, motorcycle, or tram is the front window. Modern windshields are generally made of laminated safety glass, a type of treated glass, which consists of two (typically) curved sheets of glass with a plastic layer laminated between them for safety, and are glued into the window frame. Motorcycle windshields are often made of high-impact acrylic plastic. As the name implies, their main function is to shield the driver from the wind, though they do not do so as totally as those of a car, whereas on sports and racing motorcycles the main function is improving the drag coefficient when the rider assumes the most aerodynamic optimal configuration of his body in unison with the machine and does not shield the rider from wind when sitting upright. as I read it and read the rcw there is so much left out, that the current rcw allows any motorcycle that has any sort of windshelid to fall under the guidelines of having a sheild. so therefore any tickett should not be able to hold up in court. although I would like to see the states legal definition of awindsheild I have a wind shield on my bike, is a sport bikes clear shield called a windsheild if so I would goto court and fight any tickets given out for open visor. but thats just me, although a motorcycle windsheild does not protect you from the elements as I read it and on my other post wich noone has answered any windsheild is legal I am not an attourney I do not pratice law I just read the rcw __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


06-28-2009, 07:31 PM	#2
FatMatt MotoGP Contender Joined: Feb 2006 From: Dri-Shities, WA I Ride: GSX-R's	I believe the windscreen has to protect your eyes from wind & debris to count. If not you have to have some sort of eye protection, but this is only my interpretation. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


06-28-2009, 07:34 PM	#3
mikefsu Superbiker Joined: May 2007 From: The non rider peninsula Blog Entries: 1 I Ride: One with wheels	This is how I look at it. Its your eyes and your life. Roll the dice chance will eventually catch up. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


06-28-2009, 07:52 PM	#8
CodeBlue Zone Head Joined: Jun 2007 From: Seattle, WA - University District Blog Entries: 1 I Ride: Raven '06 R6	Besides, if you can't talk your way out of an open visor ticket then you don't deserve to be riding. How hard is "Oh, I knew something was wrong, thanks for pointing it out, officer. It won't happen again, I can assure you."? __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


06-28-2009, 08:28 PM	#9
FlyingWheelsCycleCourier Training Wheels Joined: Jun 2009 From: Bellingham, WA I Ride: rain or shine 51 weeks out of the year.........	who cares. you have to be an idiot or live in a small town to get warned once for it then pulled over again later and ticketed. oh yeah i love it when bees or bugs go in my freaking eyes or when then get jetted in between my helmet padding and face and go directly into my ear/canal. i was on the freeway once behind a truck and watched what looked like (not exageratting) a 2 inch rock come out, bounce off the road, and fly 3 feet next to my head. ive also been hit in the face by small pebbles while riding in town with my VISOR UP & DOWN ( not limited to one occasion ) AND GLASSES ON. i was pulled over when i got off the freeway a while back, my visor was plastered in bugs so i popped it up and wiped it while i rode and popped it down. sure enough a cop passed me while i was executing this manuever and told me blah blah blah visor/glasses. basic endorsement check and not having the visor down w/o glasses is illegal. screw the law im worried about my body. we all know in the summer months the bugs are thick. im not with the cops here, im just saying its a terrible idea regardless if you dont like bugs in your ears or crap of many sorts in your eyes. <----------------always riding with the visor down (95%) or glasses (5%). __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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06-28-2009, 08:30 PM	#10
coastiepete Superbiker Joined: Apr 2007 From: Port Angeles WA I Ride: 2007 ZX-10R SE, 2005 450 EXC, 1980 GS750 Cafe Project	Anybody here that thinks being pulled over for a visor up is ANYTHING other than an endorsement check? Or a reason to harass a sportbiker? 2 of us got pulled over for it in Lake Chelan during EMW2K9. while we were sitting at a stoplight, talking about where the damn ice cream place was. After the fat ass (really, not a joke, he was obese) cop ran our stuff, he let us 2 hooligans go.......with directions to the ice cream joint.......... __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


06-28-2009, 08:36 PM	#11
Shrek X Mr. 500,000 Joined: Dec 2006 From: Portland I Ride: VTX	yea, and you can print this thread and take it to court with you, the judge will say.... Oh, yea, well if The good looking ugly guy said it, and we know he is an expert in the law, then it must be true. The only person who decides what is legal or not, is the judge and on any given day that may change. take your chances with this advice, or dont... have a good day __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


06-28-2009, 09:05 PM	#13
FlyingWheelsCycleCourier Training Wheels Joined: Jun 2009 From: Bellingham, WA I Ride: rain or shine 51 weeks out of the year.........	no offense but the thread is dead as far as im concerned. dont wear glasses/wear visor, get shit in your eyes and possibly eat it. wear it, dont. fuck the cops and court theyll ticket you for anything. theyll come up with anything to endorsement check you. its about personal responsability and safety. whatever you desire. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


06-28-2009, 09:39 PM	#15
Nefarious Superbiker Joined: Jan 2009 From: Bremerton Blog Entries: 2 I Ride: 03 SV650 (Track) 03 SV1000S (Street)	I've seen this "defense" Fail in court in Arizona, the judge saw it differently then you guys seem to, I wouldn't rely on this "technicality" to get you out... Best thing you can do is stop being a squid, wear a full face helmet and keep your visor down. Bottom Line, OP isn't a lawyer and this entire thread is absolutely useless. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


06-28-2009, 10:57 PM	#19
Lynk MotoGP Contender Joined: Dec 2005 From: Bellevue, WA I Ride: a 2006 H-D XL1200C, 2005 Suzuki DR-Z400SM, 1997 Kawa Ninja 500R, and 2003 Yamaha YZF-R6 (racebike).	I'm surprised that nobody has derailed this thread through mention of the novelty helmet in old-boy's avatar. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


06-29-2009, 12:59 AM	#21
JTR MotoGP Contender Joined: Feb 2006 From: the bat cave, on the PC! I Ride: stuff	Im pretty sure (ok, just kinda) when I was taking the states required test to get my endorsement, it said to crack open my visor in the event of my shit fogging up... my lid has a lever just for this but I also remember hearing peeps getting ticketed for it.. shits messed up sometimes __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


06-29-2009, 01:40 AM	#22
JayD1981 Superbiker Joined: Dec 2007 From: Richland, WA I Ride: 03 Superhawk 996 and my new Pocket Rocket	You need to read the WAC's also, they define the terms. The specific WAC for motorcycles states it must cover something like the bottom of your nose to your eyebrow. Its too late for me to research it but if you were able to find the RCW, you should be able to find the WAC also. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


06-29-2009, 01:53 AM	#23
Rippn MotoGP Champion Joined: Apr 2007 From: soap lake wa. I Ride: 00kaw12r, 97 tls1000, 96gsxr1260 turbo freakshow, kz1300gt, 88gsxr1100, 86gsxr750, 82gsx1100ez, 79kz1300, 75 ducati750gts, 72 gt550 cafe	Lynk... snicker snicker... ain't funny how the most indignant are the ones, TRY'n to get outta wear'n gear... justifing it w/ there "intellegent" argument. Oxy morons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!! Bwhahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FREE and clean, Ripp'n __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


06-29-2009, 02:12 AM	#25
cal_look_zero Pit Crew Joined: Aug 2008 From: Medford, OR I Ride: my 2006 CBR600RR like a friggin pansy	Seriously...? You mother lovers up north get ticketed for having an open visor??? Pllease inform me when someone finally files a class action against the state for profiling, I want all the juicy details. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


06-29-2009, 09:01 AM	#29
GixxerPete Forum Synopsizer Joined: Jul 2006 From: Point Lookout I Ride: 08 KLR650, 06 DRZ400SM, 04 CRF250X, 03 XR50	Wow check out all the utterly clueless gear Nazis in this thread. You do realize nobody here is advocating riding without a visor, or are you really that dense? It's about bullshit tickets for people wearing a full face helmet on a bike that has a windshield when they are stopped at a light or crawling in slow traffic. So are you Nazis really going to tell me you sit a stop lights with your visors down the entire time? Or going 2 mph in stop and go traffic? Yeah, you're at a HUGE risk for getting flying debris in your eyes at 0-2 mph aren't you? Get a clue, it's a bullshit way to harrass motorcyclists, particularly sport bike riders. It is NOT about safety one teeny tiny bit. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


06-29-2009, 09:09 AM	#30
Bofire Endorsed Joined: May 2009 From: Yelm, WA I Ride: Harley	CHANGE IN 2009 * (SEE 5482.SL) * (1) It is unlawful: (a) For any person to operate a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle not equipped with mirrors on the left and right sides of the motorcycle which shall be so located as to give the driver a complete view of the highway for a distance of at least two hundred feet to the rear of the motorcycle or motor-driven cycle: PROVIDED, That mirrors shall not be required on any motorcycle or motor-driven cycle over twenty-five years old originally manufactured without mirrors and which has been restored to its original condition and which is being ridden to or from or otherwise in conjunction with an antique or classic motorcycle contest, show, or other such assemblage: PROVIDED FURTHER, That no mirror is required on any motorcycle manufactured prior to January 1, 1931; (b) For any person to operate a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle which does not have a windshield unless wearing glasses, goggles, or a face shield of a type conforming to rules adopted by the state patrol; (c) For any person to operate or ride upon a motorcycle, motor-driven cycle, or moped on a state highway, county road, or city street unless wearing upon his or her head a motorcycle helmet except when the vehicle is an antique motor-driven cycle or automobile that is licensed as a motorcycle or when the vehicle is equipped with seat belts and roll bars approved by the state patrol. The motorcycle helmet neck or chin strap must be fastened securely while the motorcycle or motor-driven cycle is in motion. Persons operating electric-assisted bicycles shall comply with all laws and regulations related to the use of bicycle helmets; (d) For any person to transport a child under the age of five on a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle; (e) For any person to sell or offer for sale a motorcycle helmet that does not meet the requirements established by this section. (2) The state patrol may adopt and amend rules, pursuant to the Administrative Procedure Act, concerning standards for glasses, goggles, and face shields. (3) For purposes of this section, "motorcycle helmet" means a protective covering for the head consisting of a hard outer shell, padding adjacent to and inside the outer shell, and a neck or chin strap type retention system, with a sticker indicating that the motorcycle helmet meets standards established by the United States Department of Transportation. [2003 c 197 § 1; 1997 c 328 § 4; 1990 c 270 § 7. Prior: 1987 c 454 § 1; 1987 c 330 § 732; 1986 c 113 § 8; 1982 c 77 § 7; 1977 ex.s. c 355 § 55; 1971 ex.s. c 150 § 1; 1969 c 42 § 1; 1967 c 232 § 4.] Notes: You guys are citing the wrong section.remember in law you must use the 'most specific' and "most restrictive' this section, above,is from the motorcycle section or the "most specific". Looks to me that they can cite and enforce. Carl and here is what it says in the newest DOL motorcycle handbook. Eye and face protection A plastic shatter-resistant faceshield can help protect your whole face in a collision. It also protects you from wind, dust, dirt, rain, insects, and pebbles thrown up from cars ahead. These problems are distracting and can be painful. If you have to deal with them, you can’t devote your full attention to the road. Goggles protect your eyes, though they won’t protect the rest of your face like a faceshield does. A windshield is not a substitute for a faceshield or goggles. Most windshields will not protect your eyes from the wind. Neither will eyeglasses or sunglasses. Glasses won’t keep your eyes from watering, and they might blow off when you turn your head while riding. To be effective, eye or faceshield protection must: • be free of scratches. • be resistant to penetration. • give a clear view to either side. • fasten securely, so it does not blow off. • permit air to pass through, to reduce fogging. • permit enough room for eyeglasses or sunglasses, if needed. Tinted eye protection should not be worn at night or any other time when little light is available. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by Bofire; 06-29-2009 at 09:28 AM..


06-29-2009, 09:31 AM	#34
RedVFR Fast, Easy, and Old Fashioned Joined: Sep 2006 From: Spokane I Ride: Guess.....	A ticket for visor up (or lack of eye protection) at a stop is utter and complete bullshit and is just an excuse to pull over for an endorsement check. Low speed crawl through traffic, you're starting to push your luck, but it's still bullshit. Ride with the visor up and no eye protection at your own risk, I say. Even at city speeds, I've had dust and bugs get in my eyes with my visor open more than just a crack. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


06-29-2009, 09:35 AM	#35
Rashnak Endorsed Joined: Feb 2009 From: Seattle, WA I Ride: 2006 Suzuki V Strom 1000	I have a flip face helmet and a windshield. I enjoy the breeze in my face up to about 30-35 mph, then I flip down the visor. Works for me. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


06-29-2009, 10:25 AM	#36
slugsgomoo Endorsed Joined: Jul 2008 From: Bremerton, WA I Ride: 2005 Hayabusa LE	i have my visor up at low speeds because when it's down and there is no airflow I get claustrophobic and can't breathe __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


06-29-2009, 01:44 PM	#40
Gusgus MotoGP Champion Joined: Dec 2008 From: VanHooter, Wa Blog Entries: 2 I Ride: Valkyrie/R1150GS Adventure	In all my miles I have never seen a motorcyclist cause anyone issue because of a lack of eye protection. The possibilities are certainly there, although so are bees flying into open collars which occur often and I have witnessed crashes caused by them, many times. There are many issues which cause motorcyclists to create traffic collisions due to inadequate clothing, inadequate maintenance, anger, aggression, misplaced competition and poor riding style. The ignorance spoken here about visors should then be applied to proper gear, advanced training, anger management, drug and alcohol testing or psychiatric evaluations before riding should then be supported by each of you? If you can advance the revenue building and flat out untruth to call it "SAFETY" you then are full of shit when all the rest is exposed. HYPOCRITES! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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