PNW Riders

Sticks n Stones · 07-02-2009, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by D_Rail

Probably would still beat a GTO off the line!

I pull a 1.8 60ft time. Because the average rider who launch for a damn, I wouldnt be suprised to take most bikes through an intersection. A short, 2 lane intersection.

Wrench · 07-02-2009, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Lynk

Sweet! Two pages of bike dynos!! ... waiiit, WTF?!?!

Who cares what someone's GTO makes? It's a car.

I totally agree. Leave the 4-wheel stuff out of this.

2008 Pitster Pro X4 motard 150.

Butt dyno says around 15hp, and some of the most fun ever had on 2-wheels!

D_Rail · 07-02-2009, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Sticks n Stones

Actually, I can take you for a ride in my GTO. I cured the main handling and traction problem: I put street/strip stickies on it. World of difference! Matter of fact, 2 weeks ago I put a WRX into the dirt when he tried to keep with me through the twisty section at the end of Seattle Hill Rd. Luckily for him his AWD saved him from meeting the hill face, but he still ended up spun out. lol The car handles very well, thank you.

No you didn't..

Originally Posted by Sticks n Stones

Why the hostility? Is this a handling thread and I missed it?? When it comes to cars, how great they handle is a friggin joke: without going to a track, only the most hardcore guys are ever going to tackle corners on the street. Leave the "Best handling car" junk for the Europeans. In America, in the real world, races are almost always straight lines. Period.

Hostility? You're the one that is defending his POS GTO to the bitter end, when in the end this is a bike thread and no one cares. Races are almost always in a straight line? Drag racing is in a straight line from a dead stop (which is cool to me, because I sure as hell am no good at it), roll ons are for dyno runs and people that have something to prove. Racing has right turns, left turns, elevation change, decreasing radius turns, off camber turns 1 or 2 straight aways.. Road Racing is Racing.. The masturbation you do, is not racing..

theJrod · 07-02-2009, 01:25 PM

Lynk · 07-02-2009, 01:27 PM

^^ Looks more like "DA F'n LAME" to me.

gilberjj · 07-02-2009, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by theJrod

PulpComic · 07-02-2009, 05:32 PM

This kind of thread hijack makes me sick.

I was really enjoying the graphs, photos, descriptions. Then, for some inexplicable reason a debate about a discontinued car from a defunct car manufacturer takes over the page. If I wanted to read that discussion I'd go to the LS1/LS2 forums (that's something I will never do). What's even stranger is that instead of letting it go people have to become irate and offensive over nothing.

Free speech is a real bitch sometimes.

F.Y.I. Without a graph, video, photo or something tangible it didn't happen, end of story. Not that anyone would make something like a dyno result up...

Sticks n Stones · 07-02-2009, 06:20 PM

I'll stop the thread hijack after I post one more thing:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/c...rom_197990.htm
front wheel drive FTL!

By the way: front wheel drive cars suck at cornering even worse than going in a straight line: therefore imports pretending to be sports cars are just pretenders.

FatMatt · 07-02-2009, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Sticks n Stones

I'll stop the thread hijack after I post one more thing:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/c...rom_197990.htm
front wheel drive FTL!

You FAIL!

How the fuck is that FWD FTL?

This video proves nothing more then you just can't drop it! A RWD car would have went boom if the tool driving it shifted from second to first just like that car did.

ddonacazx12 · 07-02-2009, 06:38 PM

Hey Steve,

Just so you realize, dyno results are only really comperable to other dyno results on the same dyno (on the same day is best, but at the very least it has to be the same dyno)

Otherwise there are just too many variables in the calibration, make/model of dyno, operator influance, etc...

D

still haven't dyno'd the 12.
full akrapovic system
pc3
air block off
bmc filter
(in need of Eric's magic tuning ability)
...probably 160 with out of the box map, 165 after Eric works the magic.

EDIT: and all you car jockey wana-be's... if you want to know who has the baddest ride, go run a few laps around PIR or SIR (that's pacific raceways to you young'ns) and compare lap times. Otherwise your numbers are nothing but a cyber-world circle-jerk.

2 Wheel DynoWorks · 07-02-2009, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by dragracer1951

I still contend that dyno numbers are just numbers.
The real issue is what you gained on the same dyno.

I could not agree more! All dynos are different. I talked to an employee at dynojet that used to be a tech who calibrated "Dyno Stacks". He said that dynojet uses a (+/-)5% rule when making the dynos. A new dynojet 200 or 250 is acurate to 0.10hp. So, when you run a motorcycle at the cycle barn, 5 times, all the runs should be within 0.10hp if nothing on the bike changed. But then run that same bike on my dyno and it can be (+/-)5% but again, all the runs would be within 0.10hp, again if nothing changed. If I start a dyno pull at the same temperature and rpm everytime, the graphs will overlay perfect.

A dynos main purpose is to be a tuning tool.

Oh ya, my '07 r1 with a full graves and air filter did 171.5 SAE

I will post graphs tomorrow

dragracer1951 · 07-02-2009, 07:22 PM

My 06 R1 made 166 on Mike Valasko's dyno.

gilberjj · 07-02-2009, 07:28 PM

My bike did 160 sae at ducati seattle. That was something like 178 dynojet.

goslow · 07-02-2009, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Sticks n Stones

By the way: front wheel drive cars suck at cornering even worse than going in a straight line: therefore imports pretending to be sports cars are just pretenders.

Too many factors involved to put out a blanket statement like that.

I've put plenty of distance on RWD cars with my FWD car at track days.

Doesn't mean RWD suck at handling, does it?

ddonacazx12 · 07-02-2009, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by goslow

Too many factors involved to put out a blanket statement like that.

actually from a design standpoint RWD is superior. period.

no debate necessary, known fact.

can a FWD car out handle a RWD on a given road on a given day? sure. dif cars, dif drivers, etc... too many variables.

but from a pure physics / design standpoint, RWD is superior. period.

( if it was not, then INDY, CART, F1, NASCAR, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc... would be running FWD cars. )

EDIT: you'll also note that for virtually every manufacturer in the world, their top of the line "sports model" is always either RWD or AWD - with rear bias.

goslow · 07-02-2009, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by ddonacazx12

can a FWD car out handle a RWD on a given road on a given day? sure. dif cars, dif drivers, etc... too many variables.

Isn't that what I said?

Bofire · 07-02-2009, 07:52 PM

Its so like the torque dude to like the HP and this like read out on the printer, so like ya print this shit out and there ya go dude it like two wimen and one dude and the wimen are like oral, and ya got this print shit so like yer wheels like go faster dude and then yer cool! cause like you race these dude fer money and then ya make a movie and then you smoke this killer shit forever. cause ya got big bucks, kewl??
So ya know I am ridin this ride an get like my drawers blown off so this thread guy says dyno tune, so like I do this shit and then I go out an like my drawers are like blown off.
so what like is the point man?
Do I gotta buy a bigger faster bike anyway? and so I bought this mag dude and it like tested these bikes and this one bike man just blew the others away, so if I buy it will I be like the fastest dude around??
and do you have directions for like fixing my bike when it breaks?
thanks
catch a wave dude.
Carl

FatMatt · 07-02-2009, 07:57 PM

Hey DUDE, pass some of that over here!

Originally Posted by Bofire

Its so like the torque dude to like the HP and this like read out on the printer, so like ya print this shit out and there ya go dude it like two wimen and one dude and the wimen are like oral, and ya got this print shit so like yer wheels like go faster dude and then yer cool! cause like you race these dude fer money and then ya make a movie and then you smoke this killer shit forever. cause ya got big bucks, kewl??
So ya know I am ridin this ride an get like my drawers blown off so this thread guy says dyno tune, so like I do this shit and then I go out an like my drawers are like blown off.
so what like is the point man?
Do I gotta buy a bigger faster bike anyway? and so I bought this mag dude and it like tested these bikes and this one bike man just blew the others away, so if I buy it will I be like the fastest dude around??
and do you have directions for like fixing my bike when it breaks?
thanks
catch a wave dude.
Carl

kneedragger · 07-02-2009, 08:18 PM

Little Mario's RS125 is putting out 42.5HP at the rear wheel. Bike was dynoed at MCE Racing's dyno at T-Hill. Funny enough, he loves to give all the "big boys" with all the "HP" a great view of rear tyre when he passes them on the outside of corners! :D :D :D

Sticks n Stones · 07-02-2009, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by kneedragger

Little Mario's RS125 is putting out 42.5HP at the rear wheel. Bike was dynoed at MCE Racing's dyno at T-Hill. Funny enough, he loves to give all the "big boys" with all the "HP" a great view of rear tyre when he passes them on the outside of corners! :D :D :D

Sound like a badass little ride there! I've always had a fond spot for those things. They just have a way of generating grins like nothing else!

mjn · 07-02-2009, 08:50 PM

Uh.....newsflash folks; This is a motorcycle website. This thread is about motocycle dyno numbers. Keep the damn thing on topic. Car shit goes to pnwspeed.

PeteN95 · 07-03-2009, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by Sticks n Stones

Sound like a badass little ride there! (RS125) I've always had a fond spot for those things. They just have a way of generating grins like nothing else!

Like you could ever fit on it!?!

krautBurner · 07-03-2009, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Sticks n Stones

Nice numbers! Though I'm thinking that "100 shot" is a bit conservative: with your mods you should be in the 360-370rwhp range without the juice. We need to get together, I've been wanting to run another GTO! Tired of mauling the Mustangs, 350 & 370Z's, Mazda

I'm right around 400/400 without the bottle

2 tons? not quite, try 3720 pounds for the GTO.

you're quoting "Dry" weight
my "Race" weight is about 4300lbs

krautBurner · 07-03-2009, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by PeteN95

I doubt it, what is your best lap time around PR?

no lap times from PR,

I've only taken the Proformance racing class,
no timing (in fact they recommend not doing timing at all)

but I've got a friend with a GTO (slower) he's about 40hp less than me without the bottle
who's out there regularly, I'm pretty sure he's running 56-58 second lap times

krautBurner · 07-03-2009, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by gilberjj

You conveniently forgot evos, and stis. The could smoke your car stock for stock in a straight line, and it gets more embarrassing when you start modding. I've driven a 6.0 gto, and the torque was cool, but do me a favor. Go drive a STOCK evo IX. Those cars RIP! And we all know handling is not the gtos cup of tea, so we'll leave that out of the equation. Also, supras, and rx7s would take your cars as well, but they were a little more pricey.

actually,

I've got no problem cutting better times at Auto-X than (any) stock EVO or STi that's ever been at the same events

krautBurner · 07-03-2009, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by erickb

My RS50 has 7hp when I put the Leo pipe on it, it hits 7.2hp

Originally Posted by D_Rail

Probably would still beat a GTO off the line!

not so much

I've yet to see a "Street bike" (non stretched, street tires, ect...) cut a 1.5x 60'

krautBurner · 07-03-2009, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by kneedragger

Little Mario's RS125 is putting out 42.5HP at the rear wheel. Bike was dynoed at MCE Racing's dyno at T-Hill. Funny enough, he loves to give all the "big boys" with all the "HP" a great view of rear tyre when he passes them on the outside of corners! :D :D :D

Originally Posted by Sticks n Stones

Sound like a badass little ride there! I've always had a fond spot for those things. They just have a way of generating grins like nothing else!

that sounds like a blast.
what HP are those things to begin with?

dragracer1951 · 07-03-2009, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by krautBurner

not so much

I've yet to see a "Street bike" (non stretched, street tires, ect...) cut a 1.5x 60'

My 95 FZR1000 with a 1040 kit is not streached or lowered. It does consistant 1.375's in the short numbers.

krautBurner · 07-03-2009, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by dragracer1951

My 95 FZR1000 with a 1040 kit is not streached or lowered. It does consistant 1.375's in the short numbers.

like I said,
I've not seen it at the track
come to think of it, I've never seen you at the track

I never said I was the fastest,

I just love fueling the fires under all these 2 wheeled elitists that think a bike can never be beaten by a car (most of them have never been to the track (with anything))

Are_Six · 07-03-2009, 10:22 AM

Lol I'll race your GTO in the 1/4 mile for pinks... With 500 hp and 4000 lbs you should be putting in mid 12's right?

1099 CC Stock everything on Duc Seattles Dyno.

145 hp 84 ft/lbs torque at the wheel.

That was 8 hp less than a 2008 CBR1000 that ran shortly after on the same Dyno, but 12 ft/lbs or torque more.

My first gear also redlines at around 70 mph not 100 (which is typical for most liter bikes). So first and second gear are basically designed for wheelying not accelerating.

That said with a proper rider it should run very low 10's.

PeteN95 · 07-03-2009, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by krautBurner

no lap times from PR,
I've only taken the Proformance racing class,
no timing (in fact they recommend not doing timing at all)
but I've got a friend with a GTO (slower) he's about 40hp less than me without the bottle
who's out there regularly, I'm pretty sure he's running 56-58 second lap times

Your buddy better call Roger Penske because he just broke the track record by about 20 seconds!?! That would be an average speed of over 130mph!?! The ASA stock car that qualified on pole last weekend ran a 1:23. Most fast street cars run in the 1:40s, maybe high 1:30s with sticky tires and that is without the 1st gear "bus stop" chicane the bikes use. A stock SV650 will run 1:35s with the bus stop. Bikes FTW!

Are_Six · 07-03-2009, 12:29 PM

Without the bus stop liter bikes would be hitting their 186mph governor at the end of the straight. My duc with a bad rider (me) was indicating 164 and I wasn't flat out the whole way.

tophyr · 07-03-2009, 12:34 PM

I was gonna bring up the same point.. I think he means 1:56 - 1:58's

tophyr · 07-03-2009, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Are_Six

Without the bus stop liter bikes would be hitting their 186mph governor at the end of the straight. My duc with a bad rider (me) was indicating 164 and I wasn't flat out the whole way.

Racebikes even faster - they generally have the governer removed. Ross Delong I believe was radar'ed at 189mph at Spokane a few years ago.

That speed should be shattered next weekend if someone brings a radar gun out to the WMRRA round.. Ross has a new 1000, MacConaghy's got his Fuzimoto machine, Sully with his EDR ZX10 rocket, and Edwards with a Speeddealer Motors-built true Superbike. Ricky Bobby would be proud

Sticks n Stones · 07-03-2009, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by PeteN95

Like you could ever fit on it!?!

I used to own a 250 Ninja that I raced. Course I was 120lbs lighter and 2" shorter...

Originally Posted by krautBurner

I'm right around 400/400 without the bottle

you're quoting "Dry" weight
my "Race" weight is about 4300lbs

If your race weight is 4300lbs you must weigh 500lbs! My car with just a catback and 1/4 tank is 3800. Also, you got more mods that you are listing. EDIT: I forgot you had a cam, you should be in the 380-400rwhp range. My goal is 450rwhp. LS3 heads, 620 lift cam, Kooks stepped headers. This winter.

Originally Posted by Are_Six

Without the bus stop liter bikes would be hitting their 186mph governor at the end of the straight. My duc with a bad rider (me) was indicating 164 and I wasn't flat out the whole way.

Gilberjj says that he has hit his speed limiter on the straight at Pacific numerous times- which on a stock geared zx14 is 187-188mph.

Lynk · 07-03-2009, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by tophyr

Racebikes even faster - they generally have the governer removed. Ross Delong I believe was radar'ed at 189mph at Spokane a few years ago. ...

That was on July 8, 2007. The announcement was 185MPH; if it was 189MPH, the track announcer got it wrong.

krautBurner · 07-03-2009, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by tophyr

I was gonna bring up the same point.. I think he means 1:56 - 1:58's

could be,

I'm not familliar with the timing there,

like I said,
no timing for me when I was there

krautBurner · 07-03-2009, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by Sticks n Stones

If your race weight is 4300lbs you must weigh 500lbs! My car with just a catback and 1/4 tank is 3800. Also, you got more mods that you are listing. EDIT: I forgot you had a cam, you should be in the 380-400rwhp range. My goal is 450rwhp. LS3 heads, 620 lift cam, Kooks stepped headers. This winter.

that's what the scale said (actually 4280)
I weigh about 230#
I race with a full tank of fuel (18.5gal), full interior, full 10 (or 15lb bottle),
ect...
I do have subframe connectors (probably 150+lbs)

3800lbs (with fuel and driver?)
you must have that thing gutted

btw,
I thought this was about dyno numbers.

factorten · 07-03-2009, 06:51 PM

maybe a direct link to http://pnwspeed.com/ is in order here for car discussions

evil_dave · 07-03-2009, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by RickTheRedNinja

Stella
2006 ZX14

169.5 HP @ Lynnwood CycleBarn Dyno shootout without the ramair.
Would love to see different numbers on different dynos.

I was there for that. Saw her on the dyno. Impressive.

What is more impressive is that a little birdie told me that dyno is conservative and displays 7 to 10% lower than standard.

Take from that what you will...

Lindsay (2006 Yamaha R6)
110.3 HP @ Lynnwood CycleBarn Dyno shootout

Yea she beat all the 600's ALL DAY! Hell, she even beat all the 636's... except one.

On the Dyno

Liz and Lindsay playing nice...


07-02-2009, 01:25 PM	#84
theJrod Moderator Joined: Feb 2006 From: Marysville, WA I Ride: Scooty Puff Sr: The Doom-Bringer!	__________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-02-2009, 01:27 PM	#85
Lynk Superbiker Joined: Dec 2005 From: Bellevue, WA I Ride: a 2006 H-D XL1200C, 2005 Suzuki DRZ-400SM, 1997 Kawa Ninja 500R, and 2003 Yamaha YZF-R6 (racebike).	^^ Looks more like "DA F'n LAME" to me. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-02-2009, 05:32 PM	#87
PulpComic Endorsed Joined: Jun 2007 From: Seattle, WA I Ride: 2007 YZF-R1 (Current), 2002 YZF-R1 Silver (Stolen), 2003 Kawasaki Z1000 Black (Sold), 1991 VFR-750 Red (Sold), 1988 VTR 250 Red (Sold)	This kind of thread hijack makes me sick. I was really enjoying the graphs, photos, descriptions. Then, for some inexplicable reason a debate about a discontinued car from a defunct car manufacturer takes over the page. If I wanted to read that discussion I'd go to the LS1/LS2 forums (that's something I will never do). What's even stranger is that instead of letting it go people have to become irate and offensive over nothing. Free speech is a real bitch sometimes. F.Y.I. Without a graph, video, photo or something tangible it didn't happen, end of story. Not that anyone would make something like a dyno result up... __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-02-2009, 06:20 PM	#88
Sticks n Stones Streetfighter Joined: May 2006 From: City of Snohomish, washington I Ride: '06 ZX-14, '02 TL1000R (sold), etc..	I'll stop the thread hijack after I post one more thing: http://videos.streetfire.net/video/c...rom_197990.htm front wheel drive FTL! By the way: front wheel drive cars suck at cornering even worse than going in a straight line: therefore imports pretending to be sports cars are just pretenders. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-02-2009, 06:38 PM	#90
ddonacazx12 MotoGP Contender Joined: Jul 2007 From: Camas, Washington I Ride: 05 zx12r	Hey Steve, Just so you realize, dyno results are only really comperable to other dyno results on the same dyno (on the same day is best, but at the very least it has to be the same dyno) Otherwise there are just too many variables in the calibration, make/model of dyno, operator influance, etc... D still haven't dyno'd the 12. full akrapovic system pc3 air block off bmc filter (in need of Eric's magic tuning ability) ...probably 160 with out of the box map, 165 after Eric works the magic. EDIT: and all you car jockey wana-be's... if you want to know who has the baddest ride, go run a few laps around PIR or SIR (that's pacific raceways to you young'ns) and compare lap times. Otherwise your numbers are nothing but a cyber-world circle-jerk. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by ddonacazx12; 07-02-2009 at 06:50 PM..

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07-02-2009, 07:22 PM	#92
dragracer1951 MotoGP Champion Joined: Sep 2005 From: Bremerton I Ride: 03 Are See fiddy one, 05 DRZ400SM, 95 FZR1040, 69 Combat Commando Roadster, 73 Commando Interstate, 67 BSA B44, 71 BSA B50	My 06 R1 made 166 on Mike Valasko's dyno. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-02-2009, 07:28 PM	#93
gilberjj Zone Head Joined: Feb 2008 From: Olympia, WA I Ride: Kawasaki zx14	My bike did 160 sae at ducati seattle. That was something like 178 dynojet. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-02-2009, 07:52 PM	#97
Bofire Endorsed Joined: May 2009 From: Yelm, WA I Ride: Harley	Its so like the torque dude to like the HP and this like read out on the printer, so like ya print this shit out and there ya go dude it like two wimen and one dude and the wimen are like oral, and ya got this print shit so like yer wheels like go faster dude and then yer cool! cause like you race these dude fer money and then ya make a movie and then you smoke this killer shit forever. cause ya got big bucks, kewl?? So ya know I am ridin this ride an get like my drawers blown off so this thread guy says dyno tune, so like I do this shit and then I go out an like my drawers are like blown off. so what like is the point man? Do I gotta buy a bigger faster bike anyway? and so I bought this mag dude and it like tested these bikes and this one bike man just blew the others away, so if I buy it will I be like the fastest dude around?? and do you have directions for like fixing my bike when it breaks? thanks catch a wave dude. Carl __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-02-2009, 08:18 PM	#99
kneedragger Pit Crew Joined: Jun 2006 From: tacoma I Ride: '06 GSX-R750	Little Mario's RS125 is putting out 42.5HP at the rear wheel. Bike was dynoed at MCE Racing's dyno at T-Hill. Funny enough, he loves to give all the "big boys" with all the "HP" a great view of rear tyre when he passes them on the outside of corners! :D :D :D __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-02-2009, 08:50 PM	#101
mjn Moderator Joined: Jul 2005 From: Tri-Cities Blog Entries: 1 I Ride: In search of the next 35mph corner......	Uh.....newsflash folks; This is a motorcycle website. This thread is about motocycle dyno numbers. Keep the damn thing on topic. Car shit goes to pnwspeed. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-03-2009, 10:22 AM	#110
Are_Six Superbiker Joined: Mar 2006 From: Seattle I Ride: Ducati 1098 (red of course)	Lol I'll race your GTO in the 1/4 mile for pinks... With 500 hp and 4000 lbs you should be putting in mid 12's right? 1099 CC Stock everything on Duc Seattles Dyno. 145 hp 84 ft/lbs torque at the wheel. That was 8 hp less than a 2008 CBR1000 that ran shortly after on the same Dyno, but 12 ft/lbs or torque more. My first gear also redlines at around 70 mph not 100 (which is typical for most liter bikes). So first and second gear are basically designed for wheelying not accelerating. That said with a proper rider it should run very low 10's. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-03-2009, 12:29 PM	#112
Are_Six Superbiker Joined: Mar 2006 From: Seattle I Ride: Ducati 1098 (red of course)	Without the bus stop liter bikes would be hitting their 186mph governor at the end of the straight. My duc with a bad rider (me) was indicating 164 and I wasn't flat out the whole way. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-03-2009, 12:34 PM	#113
tophyr Forum Cripple Joined: Dec 2005 From: Seattle, WA Blog Entries: 13 I Ride: Monsters by Fuzzy	I was gonna bring up the same point.. I think he means 1:56 - 1:58's __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-03-2009, 06:51 PM	#119
factorten WMRRA Qualifier Joined: May 2008 From: snohomish,wa I Ride: blue & white	maybe a direct link to http://pnwspeed.com/ is in order here for car discussions __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by factorten; 07-03-2009 at 07:13 PM..

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