PNW Riders

Jalharad · 12-14-2008, 07:33 AM

Denver, co has a similar law (thought not with as harsh of consiquenses) The EPA "sticker" is not a sticker, its engraved into the pipe itself. If it is just a sticker, then you still get the ticket. Devner law was 80db. Most sport bikes running below 4krpm wont blast that out. My 650f registers 77db at 10k rpm (yosh pipe).

masonke · 12-14-2008, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by dc_sniper9130

whatever you say, chief.

my personal experience dictates otherwise.

My personal experience driving engine, ladder trucks and squads in Norther Va for 15 years is contrary to yours. A federal Q mechanical siren, 200 W electrical siren and Grover stutter tone air horns where able to be ignored by the cagers. Hell, I had parked rigs with the lights on hit by the fools because they didnt see it.

Ever wonder why sirens are pitched so high? Because low frequency sounds are non-directional, you cant tell where they are coming from. Oh, the sirens point FORWARD so the cagers that do hear have a better chance to hear us.

It always seemed stupid to mount them on the rear of the rig so the sound was focused behind us. But YOUR experience and all the others running loud pipes running a low frequency, rear mounted noise maker refutes all scientific data and common sense.

dc_sniper9130 · 12-14-2008, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by masonke

It always seemed stupid to mount them on the rear of the rig so the sound was focused behind us. But YOUR experience and all the others running loud pipes running a low frequency, rear mounted noise maker refutes all scientific data and common sense.

when people begin to change lanes into me, a quick pull-in of the clutch and a goose to the redline and they suddenly notice me.

call BS if you want, but it happened to me about a half-dozen times this last season.

Shrek X · 12-14-2008, 08:30 AM

I know people not riding cruisers with straight pipes try to say that loud pipes dont keep you safer... while those who actually ride them will tell you otherwise.

so, take the information from the people who ride them, or those who dont...

midvalleysuperbiker · 12-14-2008, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by CodeBlue

It's easy to say that if we changed our habits then they'd leave us alone, but we're an easy target for legislation.

Well put.

We are under attack from the law makers and law enforcment.

Motorcycles are an easy target.

I know the attitude from the Portland Police regarding sport bikes is not good, at least the ones I have talked to.

We need to recognize that fact and organize.

If it happens somewhere else it can and probably will happen here.

Runout · 12-14-2008, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by Shrek X

I am saying that nobody has ever died from straight pipes. they have from passing a dozen cars at 100+, so, which should we legislate?

Speeders are already legislated - behaving in this manner gets your shit tossed in the back of a cop car and your ride impounded.

FWIW I'm neither here nor there about loud pipes. Aftermarket pipes are already illegal, but IMHO the cops are pretty mellow about enforcing it. I see them all the time around Seattle. However if a bunch of folks are irritated enough that they take action in a city as crowded as NY, who am I to say they're full of shit? It's a small world getting smaller. And yes...I'm planning on coring my cans this Spring

Shrek X · 12-14-2008, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Runout

Speeders are already legislated - behaving in this manner gets your shit tossed in the back of a cop car and your ride impounded.

It is, but I am talking about the HP output of bikes like I have seen suggested on other boards.

You know, dont trust them not to speed, but prevent them from being able to speed.

midvalleysuperbiker · 12-14-2008, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by Shrek X

I am saying that nobody has ever died from straight pipes. they have from passing a dozen cars at 100+, so, which should we legislate?

.... but then I wouldn't expect anything less from you, people have to be your way, dress like you, ride like you and what you ride, act like you, or need to be tossed in jail or legislated in some manner.... thats par for you.

As for my X, I guarantee that I get 20x more thumbs up than it bothers anyone. bet you cant say the same.

but you want to draw the line between sport bikes and cruisers? go for it dumbass, your stepping on your own dick

This pissing back and forth between the sport bike and cruiser camps is counter productive and immature. We all have a common interest here.

Horsepower limit on motorcycles? That has been discussed before and is a real possibility. It is the reality in some other countries.

Air cooled 45degree Harley engines will in all likelihood will become a thing of the past in coming years as ever more stringent EPA and noise rules choke the life out of them. Why do you think they developed the V Rod? When this happens it will be a sad day for all of motorcycling.

Transported · 12-14-2008, 08:59 AM

It's not a cruiser versus sportbike issue here. It is a straight pipe versus muffled pipe issue. It just so happens that cruisers are the ones running straight pipes, unless you visit a racetrack.

I can see that some cruisers get some sort of visceral satisfaction from the noise of their pipes. Perhaps it's the ability to draw attention or the bad-ass factor, or perhaps it is aesthetics (the rumble and flames).

But, your satisfaction is coming at a high cost to the rest of the biking community. Can you bear to muffle voluntarily in order to prevent politicians from muffling legislatively? That is the question.

Runout · 12-14-2008, 09:00 AM

Ahh...got it. I suppose you can argue that's already happening with the restrictor.

HP restrictors would be sad.

mfrankpdx · 12-14-2008, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by dc_sniper9130

when people begin to change lanes into me, a quick pull-in of the clutch and a goose to the redline and they suddenly notice me.

call BS if you want, but it happened to me about a half-dozen times this last season.

My last .02 on the subject...

If you've put yourself in a position where someone has to hear you in order for you to be safe, you've already blown it. link

Shrek X · 12-14-2008, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by midvalleysuperbiker

This pissing back and forth between the sport bike and cruiser camps is counter productive and immature. We all have a common interest here.

Horsepower limit on motorcycles? That has been discussed before and is a real possibility. It is the reality in some other countries.

Air cooled 45degree Harley engines will in all likelihood will become a thing of the past in coming years as ever more stringent EPA and noise rules choke the life out of them. Why do you think they developed the V Rod? When this happens it will be a sad day for all of motorcycling.

agreed.

Shrek X · 12-14-2008, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Transported

It's not a cruiser versus sportbike issue here. It is a straight pipe versus muffled pipe issue. It just so happens that cruisers are the ones running straight pipes, unless you visit a racetrack.

I can see that some cruisers get some sort of visceral satisfaction from the noise of their pipes. Perhaps it's the ability to draw attention or the bad-ass factor, or perhaps it is aesthetics (the rumble and flames).

But, your satisfaction is coming at a high cost to the rest of the biking community. Can you bear to muffle voluntarily in order to prevent politicians from muffling legislatively? That is the question.

I would say that the "high cost" is being waged by sport bikes, not open pipe cruisers. just look at the press each get and you want to point fingers at cruisers as creating a high cost to the biking community? your not that naive are you? you have a real issue with personal responsibility, seems you should tend to your own grass.

midvalleysuperbiker · 12-14-2008, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Transported

It's not a cruiser versus sportbike issue here. It is a straight pipe versus muffled pipe issue. It just so happens that cruisers are the ones running straight pipes, unless you visit a racetrack.

I can see that some cruisers get some sort of visceral satisfaction from the noise of their pipes. Perhaps it's the ability to draw attention or the bad-ass factor, or perhaps it is aesthetics (the rumble and flames).

But, your satisfaction is coming at a high cost to the rest of the biking community. Can you bear to muffle voluntarily in order to prevent politicians from muffling legislatively? That is the question.

Two of my bikes have aftermarket exhaust, marketed by the manufacturer of the bikes, Akra on my Aprilia and Termi on my Ducati.

The bikes were tuned for those cans by the same dealer that sold the bikes new.

They are for performance not attention getting!

After 35 years of riding high performance motorcycles I could give a shit about looking or sounding cool.

For most of us it is about the ride!

Transported · 12-14-2008, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by mfrankpdx

My last .02 on the subject...

If you've put yourself in a position where someone has to hear you in order for you to be safe, you've already blown it. link

From the report:

"The [AMA] believes that few other factors contribute more to misunderstanding and prejudice against the motorcycling community than excessively noisy motorcycles". They then go on to say, "Shifting blame and failing to adopt responsible policies on a voluntary basis can only result in greater prejudice and discrimination against motorcycling. The consequences of continuing to ignore this issue will likely result in excessively rigorous state and federal standards, ……[and] abusive enforcement of current laws and other solutions undesirable to riders and the motorcycle industry"

WTFO · 12-14-2008, 09:31 AM

Now if they would impose the same for DWI/DUI for seizure etc. Granted loud pipes are offensive but mostly aimed at Harley riders.

dc_sniper9130 · 12-14-2008, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by mfrankpdx

My last .02 on the subject...

If you've put yourself in a position where someone has to hear you in order for you to be safe, you've already blown it. link

.... ok ....

thats awesome, except that there are enough cagers out there who happen to be such knuckledraggers that a buzz-bomb is the only thing that will make them notice you...

every time this has happened to me it's been in traffic, going the speed limit (or 5 over) and it's usually involved someone preoccupied with a cell phone, GPS, or other electronic nonsense. one time a girl started to swerve into my lane while reaching back to mess with a kid in a carseat.

bottom line is everyone needs to pay more attention on the road.

another thing for me is that i like to be able to clearly hear my engine above road noise and wind, because an abnormal sound is one of the first indicators that something is amiss with your powerplant.

Shrek X · 12-14-2008, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by WTFO

Now if they would impose the same for DWI/DUI for seizure etc. Granted loud pipes are offensive but mostly aimed at Harley riders.

no they arent...

whats offensive is seeing some 300lb d00d with a pot belly in tight leathers riding down the road. now THATS offensive. pipes just sound good, if its not your thing, thtas cool

Transported · 12-14-2008, 10:11 AM

whats offensive is seeing some 300lb d00d with a pot belly in wife beater riding down the road. now THATS offensive. blowing past cars at 150+ just feels good, if its not your thing, thtas cool

Your logic is as good as mine.

Shrek X · 12-14-2008, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Transported

whats offensive is seeing some 300lb d00d with a pot belly in wife beater riding down the road. now THATS offensive. blowing past cars at 150+ just feels good, if its not your thing, thtas cool

Your logic is as good as mine.

you have a point, and yes, your logic is the same as mine.

The difference is, I wouldn't support or rally people to impose restrictions on HP no matter how dangerous I think it is for most riders or the general public thereby imposing my opinion of enjoyment on others... where you would.

james1300 · 12-14-2008, 11:13 AM

Years ago it was tried to legislate a HP limit. I was working at our local Honda shop at the time. It was in the 80's. Thankfully the Motorcycle Industry Counsel, the AMA, and other motorcycle watch dog groups got the word out. Its been tried and defeated once.
However, we are all still being watched. Loud pipes, speeding (I mean really speeding) stunting on public streets, drinking and riding, swerving in and out of traffic, cop shows showing chase scenes of motorcyclists, they ALL add-up to a negative public image.
Riders and Dealers need to be vigilant and spread the word. WE are being watched.
We need to 'work together' to keep people who don't ride, keep them from making laws about us.

Shrek X · 12-14-2008, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by james1300

We need to 'work together' to keep people who don't ride, keep them from making laws about us.

true

CodeBlue · 12-14-2008, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by james1300

However, we are all still being watched. Loud pipes, speeding (I mean really speeding) stunting on public streets, drinking and riding, swerving in and out of traffic, cop shows showing chase scenes of motorcyclists, they ALL add-up to a negative public image.
Riders and Dealers need to be vigilant and spread the word. WE are being watched.
We need to 'work together' to keep people who don't ride, keep them from making laws about us.

None of this stuff will go away even if we work as a group because there will always be a fringe that isn't interested in the group or is too new to know about it. I know I had a wild first summer bus since then I've been safe and sane, how many others did it that way? As long as there are people out there that are just getting into bikes and finding their limits but don't have the money to go to the track (not saying it's a valid excuse) we will have a negative image. Also there will always be the 1%ers of the sportbike world. The groups that ride standups down the freeways as an organization or club will never go for doing things legally because it isn't "cool".

The funny thing is that it's like gun control. The ones that behave themselves already and comply with laws will be the only ones affected.

james1300 · 12-14-2008, 01:36 PM

It may never go away, but that doesn't mean we have to sit and not say something to the people creating the problems. Being pro-active and NOT condoning the types of behavior and mod's that attract negative reactions to our sport is what we RIDERS and Dealers need to be doing. Working together, before someone who doesn't ride tries to legislate us.

Pointman · 12-14-2008, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Transported

I can see that some cruisers get some sort of visceral satisfaction from the noise of their pipes. Perhaps it's the ability to draw attention or the bad-ass factor, or perhaps it is aesthetics (the rumble and flames).

You have some serious issues with us FL riders don't you?

It's okay since we don't care what people think, I'd still have a beer with you on a ride- you buy though!

Pointman · 12-14-2008, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by james1300

It may never go away, but that doesn't mean we have to sit and not say something to the people creating the problems. Being pro-active and NOT condoning the types of behavior and mod's that attract negative reactions to our sport is what we RIDERS and Dealers need to be doing. Working together, before someone who doesn't ride tries to legislate us.

There is no problem unless someone is looking for it-

United we ride, divided we walk!

Pointman · 12-14-2008, 06:58 PM

NYC to Discuss Bill Designed to Harness Cycle SoundPublish date: Dec 11,
2008
New York City Council members are preparing to debate a bill requiring
all motorcycles to have tags certifying approval by the United States
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

The new measure would let city agents ticket parked motorcycles without
the authorities having to prove the bike exceeded the 80 dB limit set by
the city's noise code.
The bill was approved by New York City’s Public
Safety Committee Dec. 10 and goes to the full Council for debate Dec.18.

A first conviction carries a maximum $1,000 fine and temporary
confiscation of the bike until the penalty is paid.
A second conviction
hikes the maximum fine to $2,500 and imposes permanent forfeiture.

The New York bill was based on an ordinance passed in Denver in 2007.

There, as of July 1, 2007, motorcycle owners are required to keep their
bikes at 82 dB.
The ordinance also requires bikes made after 1982 carry
an EPA compliance tag to be displayed on the pipes.

The EPA rates maximum permissible noise level for street motorcycles at
80 dB for motorcycles manufactured in model year 1986 or later.
However,
in many states, legislation has remained unchanged since the early
1970s, when maximum permissible noise level was set at 86 dB.

A decibel (dB) is the basic measurement unit for sound.
Decibel
measurements are made on a logarithmic scale, which means that an
increase of 10 decibels approximates a perceived doubling of the noise
level.
A noise source measuring 70 dB is therefore 10 times louder than
a source measuring 60 dB and 100 times louder than a source reading 50
dB.

The American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) says it opposes excessive
motorcycle noise.
In the past several years, the AMA has spent well over
$100,000 defending lawsuits and confronting legislative prohibitions.

Based on its opposition to excessive motorcycle noise, the AMA has
publicly recommended the following:

~Motorcycle retailers should discourage the installation and use of
excessively loud replacement exhaust systems.

~Manufacturers producing motorcycles to appropriate federal standards
should continue to educate their dealers and customers that louder
exhaust systems do not necessarily improve the performance of a
motorcycle.

~Motorcyclists should not modify exhaust systems in a way that will
increase sound to an offensive level.

~The motorcycle industry, including aftermarket suppliers of replacement
exhaust systems, should adopt responsible product design and marketing
policies aimed at limiting the cumulative impact of excessive motorcycle
noise.

~Law enforcement agencies should fairly and consistently enforce
appropriate laws and ordinances against excessive vehicle noise.

~The motorcycle industry and the safety community should educate
customers that excessive noise may be fatiguing to riders, making them
less able to enjoy riding and less able to exercise good riding skills.

~All motorcyclists should be sensitive to community standards and
respect the rights of fellow citizens to enjoy a peaceful environment.

~Organizers of motorcycle events should take steps through advertising,
peer pressure and enforcement to make excessively loud motorcycles
unwelcome.

~In October, the 2008 American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) Congress
passed a 94 dB standard for all amateur and Pro-Am motocross and
off-road competition, effective in 2011.
The new level mirrors both the
2009 standard for professional motocross and Supercross racing in the
United States, as well as the level mandated by the FIM (Federation
Internationale de Motocyclisme), which governs international motorcycle
competition.
Currently, sound limits for amateur motorcycle competition
are 99 dB for closed-course competition and 96 dB for cross-country
racing.

Transported · 12-14-2008, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Pointman

You have some serious issues with us FL riders don't you?

It's okay since we don't care what people think, I'd still have a beer with you on a ride- you buy though!

Maybe it's time to care what people think, because people are about to give you a huge fine if you don't muffle your bike. And, sorry, but I don't drink and ride. I find bikes challenging enough with my full physical and mental capacities.

rookie · 12-14-2008, 09:18 PM

And they wounder why some bikes out run the popo because of bullshit laws with penalties worse the ditching a doughnutasour .

Desvio · 12-14-2008, 09:29 PM

My wife grew up in the Bronx, and she said regarding noise. Realistically bikes are the least of the 'noise pollution' there, and that is is obviously revenue generation. Considering the initial impact virtually everyone that rides a bike, as far as the NYPD and State PD are concerned. And we all all know how they think, and she just confirms the 'dick-factor' does really exist there, in a bad attitude way.

Toucan · 12-15-2008, 11:26 AM

The bill is still live; but off the immediate vote list.

"For Immediate Release

15 December 2008

Contact: Jeff Hennie, Vice President of Government Relations (MRF)
Email: jeff@mrf.org

New York City Council Pulls Motorcycle Noise Bill.

Late last week the New York City Council Committee on Public Safety held a
hearing on Introduction No. 416 A titled; "A Local Law to amend the
administrative code of the city of New York, in relation to prohibiting
the parking of motorcycles equipped with straight pipes on the streets of
the city of New York."

This bill gives law enforcement the ability to issue fines of $1000 and
temporary impoundment for the first infraction and a fine of $2500 and
permanent forfeiture of motorcycles with out EPA approved or stock exhaust
pipes. The committee, Chaired by council member Peter Vallone a democrat
from Queens, did vote in favor of the bill which sent it on to be
considered by the full council on week later.

The Motorcycle Riders Foundation is pleased to report that for now the
bill has been pulled from the schedule for December 18th, when it was to
be voted upon by the full council.

The MRF thanks Speaker Christine Quinn for realizing that this issue
requires much more than one week worth of consideration.

"This legislation raises far more problems than it solves" said Jeff
Hennie vice president of government relations for the Motorcycle Riders
Foundation. "What about older bikes that predate the 1979 clean air act or
motorcycles from neighboring states, just to name a few?" he added.

The Council will be entering the 4th and last year of the current 4 year
session. So this bill is still live and could be considered at any point
during the 2009 calendar year.

The issue of motorcycle sound can be controversial and is certainly one of
the most complicated of all issues related to motorcycles.

The MRF will keep you updated on this bill."

this is open all next year too. I feel for those who like the nice rumble of the exhaust, but like riding like idiots, the extremes of our sport will bring the hammer of society down on us.

It will be our own (un)doing on all fronts (loud pipes; asshat riders)

Robusto · 12-15-2008, 12:37 PM

frog soup.

KCander · 12-15-2008, 01:23 PM

More rules = bad.

I agree that there are times when loud pipes can be a nuisance. But c'mon, don't we have enough rules in this country as it is? As long as nobody is getting hurt, can't we just be annoyed for a few seconds and move on? I think those little import tuner cars sound god-awful when I hear these kids tear-assing around with their foot to the floor and their Type R V S Super-Fart exhausts whine away up the highway near my house on Hwy 99. But hey, if I didn't want to worry about traffic noise, I wouldn't be living a block from a highway, would I? I hear trucks on the freeway, which also isn't too far from my house, flipping on their jake brakes. I hear construction equipment. I hear car alarms. I hear fire engines and police sirens. I LIVE IN A CITY. IT'S PART OF THE FUCKING DEAL.

My CBR has an aftermarket pipe on it, and while a little extra power and weight savings were factors in the purchase I would say the main reason I bought it was probably because I feel like a sportbike shouldn't sound like a spaceship from the Jetsons. It needs to sound mean. It's not deafening, but I'm sure it's louder than the legal limit. I give a shit.

I've got a full Yosh exhaust for my DRZ sitting in my basement right now. I'm installing it because it looks cool, it adds horsepower, and it's loud. I don't give a rat's ass about "loud pipes saving lives", and frankly I don't care, I just want my bike to sound good. And to me, louder is better. Within reason. I realize that my "reason" and your "reason" may different, and I realize that this probably annoys some people. And I'm sorry about that. But not sorry enough to change it.

We have too many rules about shit that isn't really hurting anybody as it is. Sure, I make a face and talk some shit when another '87 Honda Prelude squeals and farts its way out of the AMPM across the street, and I agree that there needs to be some general sort of noise pollution regulations in place - I would be pissed if my next door neighbor was out revving his CRF450 at 4am every morning. I'd talk to him, or call the cops if need be, or whatever. But that doesn't mean I need every dirtbike on the planet to run on the Red October silent drive.

What I'm saying here is this: If we're not careful about these kinds of rules, we're going to regulate individuality, and eventually a little something called fun, right out of this country. We're doing a pretty damn good job of this already, actually.

Philosophically, my right to be an annoying jackass does not override your right to protect your eardrums from unsolicited bleeding. But on the other hand, your right to be a pussy does not override my right to motorcycle badassery. We're both annoyed with each other, so that means the current balance is probably just about right. Once one side gets too many concessions, the other side is probably getting screwed over.

Let's agree to all be a little annoyed with each other and that way we all get to keep some of our freedoms.

Baystr · 12-15-2008, 01:35 PM

Why don't we outlaw hippies and their body odor instead?[/QUOTE]

Now that is some funny shit right there!

Devil_Doc · 12-15-2008, 01:59 PM

There is already legislation locally regarding the db level on aftermarket car exhaust and on stereo noise. It's worthless, no one enforces it.. It just makes for good press when a politician wants to get re-elected. That being said, we've all seen the fuktards that rap out their cruisers down the main drag of (insert your town here), and the same fuktards that pull wheelies and stoppies right behind the cruisers. Every time a soccer mom sees some squid bringing his front end up at 70mph, that's one step closer to all of us losing the PRIVILEGE to ride. Loud pipes DON"T save lives. Smart riding does.

Vigilante · 12-15-2008, 02:37 PM

Some cops like loud pipes...

"Over in Oakland they like it loud -- so loud that all 45 of the Police Department's Harley-Davidson motorcycles have been equipped with shiny new tailpipes, ad a cost of $500.00 apiece, to rev up their roar. It seems that the cops just didn't feel safe on the toned-down bikes.

"There's an old motorcycle adage that you are heard before you are seen," said Deputy Chief Dave Kozicki, explaining the department's decision to toss the bikes' muted factory-issued mufflers in favor of the more high-volume pipes.

Kozicki cited an accident three months ago in which an Oakland officer riding a toned-down cycle was struck by a motorist who said he hadn’t hear the officer approaching. But some City Hall insiders, as well as motorcycle cops elsewhere, said the safety argument is a stretch.

Even the folks at the national Motorcycle Industry Council (MIC) which represents all the big bike manufacturers, were unaware of any safety benefits from louder mufflers.

"We encourage all motorcycle riders to keep the original low sound levels that meet the ... federal sound limit of 80 decibels," said industry spokesman Mike Mount. "It would seem counterintuitive that a law enforcement agency would go against federal standards."

Ironically, it was just a short time back that Oakland police were called upon to crack down on noisy motorists who had modified their auto mufflers to make a whistling screech. The "whistle tip" pipes were eventually outlawed under state law.

Oakland's cops had a long tradition of riding their Harley- Davidson with the modified, louder tail pipes, hearing them the nickname "Rolling Thunder." But after an officer complained about a loss of hearing and other around town questioned whether the police force was violating the very noise standards it was supposed to enforce, the department brass ordered a switch to the quieter stock mufflers.

So last year, the department launched a $1,200 study in conjunction with the city’s risk management division to determine whether: A) the louder motorcycles contributed to the officers’ safety, B) were detrimental to their hearing, and C) complied with noise standards.

Kozicki acknowledged that whatever safety-related findings the study produced were largely anecdotal. Still, after everything was taken into consideration, the department concluded “it was in the best interest of the officers to put more-audible pipes back on,” Kozicki said.

Hence, all 30 of the department’s Harleys were sent down to the central maintenance yard for a muffler makeover at a cost of about $15,000, according to City Hall insiders. Another 15 newly-purchased motorcycles were ordered with the louder pipes, though at no extra charge.

Oakland officials acknowledge that the noisy pipes, when tested, averaged 93 decibels – well above the federal legal noise limit, according to the Motorcycle Industry Council.

But city Finance Director Mill Nolan, who oversees the risk management division, isn’t alarmed. “if they were riding eight straight hours, it would be a problem,” he said. “But they aren’t.”

Vigilante · 12-15-2008, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Jalharad

Denver, co has a similar law (thought not with as harsh of consiquenses) The EPA "sticker" is not a sticker, its engraved into the pipe itself. If it is just a sticker, then you still get the ticket. Devner law was 80db. Most sport bikes running below 4krpm wont blast that out. My 650f registers 77db at 10k rpm (yosh pipe).

Here's what I read about Denver's law...

1) Your bike must register under 82 db from 25 feet.

2) The measurement can be taken at ANY condition – idle, rev up, rev down – apparently this is at the officer’s discretion. Yes, they can make you rev the bike until you fail the test.

3) It’s illegal to install any muffler on a motorcycle made after 1982 that doesn’t bear an EPA stamp of approval.

4) It’s illegal to operate a motorcycle made after 1982 with a muffler that doesn’t have an EPA stamp of approval.

Pointman · 12-15-2008, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Vigilante

Here's what I read about Denver's law...

1) Your bike must register under 82 db from 25 feet.

2) The measurement can be taken at ANY condition – idle, rev up, rev down – apparently this is at the officer’s discretion. Yes, they can make you rev the bike until you fail the test.

3) It’s illegal to install any muffler on a motorcycle made after 1982 that doesn’t bear an EPA stamp of approval.

4) It’s illegal to operate a motorcycle made after 1982 with a muffler that doesn’t have an EPA stamp of approval.

A stock H-D at idle will bust the test..

I'm glad I got a '53-but they'll probably make the older (Pre-82) two wheeled versions of the Exxon Valdez illegal for the road or some kind of UN compliance bullshit.

FTW

Clackamas · 12-15-2008, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Transported

Cool. Bout time.

Too bad the assholes running straight pipes have now cost everyone with a motorcycle an unneccessary expense in having to purchase an EPA sticker. It's always the few who fuck the many.

Yeah, well they didn't call NYC City Council Nazi's for nothing... Everyone must give up their freedom to be free and safe.

Devil_Doc · 12-15-2008, 05:52 PM

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both

Everyone must give up their freedom to be free and safe

I'm hoping you meant this as irony...?


12-14-2008, 07:33 AM	#41
Jalharad Zone Head Joined: Jul 2007 From: Bellingham, Washington I Ride: Like its friday and i'm out for the weekend!	Denver, co has a similar law (thought not with as harsh of consiquenses) The EPA "sticker" is not a sticker, its engraved into the pipe itself. If it is just a sticker, then you still get the ticket. Devner law was 80db. Most sport bikes running below 4krpm wont blast that out. My 650f registers 77db at 10k rpm (yosh pipe). __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-14-2008, 08:30 AM	#44
Shrek X Mr. 500,000 Joined: Dec 2006 From: Out There... some where... I Ride: VTX	I know people not riding cruisers with straight pipes try to say that loud pipes dont keep you safer... while those who actually ride them will tell you otherwise. so, take the information from the people who ride them, or those who dont... __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-14-2008, 08:59 AM	#49
Transported MotoGP Champion Joined: Dec 2006 From: Portland, Oregon Blog Entries: 1 I Ride: '99 R1, '80 Suz GS450S	It's not a cruiser versus sportbike issue here. It is a straight pipe versus muffled pipe issue. It just so happens that cruisers are the ones running straight pipes, unless you visit a racetrack. I can see that some cruisers get some sort of visceral satisfaction from the noise of their pipes. Perhaps it's the ability to draw attention or the bad-ass factor, or perhaps it is aesthetics (the rumble and flames). But, your satisfaction is coming at a high cost to the rest of the biking community. Can you bear to muffle voluntarily in order to prevent politicians from muffling legislatively? That is the question. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-14-2008, 09:00 AM	#50
Runout MotoGP Champion Joined: Sep 2006 From: protesting at the mall I Ride: faster than I should, but slower than you.	Ahh...got it. I suppose you can argue that's already happening with the restrictor. HP restrictors would be sad. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-14-2008, 09:31 AM	#56
WTFO MotoGP Contender Joined: Jul 2007 From: An unstated X,Y,Z coordinate I Ride: 09 Blk Daytona 675 (better than hoochie), BLK/Silver 06 Tiger, Red 04 R1, Yellow 99 Daytona 955i	Now if they would impose the same for DWI/DUI for seizure etc. Granted loud pipes are offensive but mostly aimed at Harley riders. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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12-14-2008, 10:11 AM	#59
Transported MotoGP Champion Joined: Dec 2006 From: Portland, Oregon Blog Entries: 1 I Ride: '99 R1, '80 Suz GS450S	whats offensive is seeing some 300lb d00d with a pot belly in wife beater riding down the road. now THATS offensive. blowing past cars at 150+ just feels good, if its not your thing, thtas cool Your logic is as good as mine. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-14-2008, 11:13 AM	#61
james1300 Track School Dazed Joined: Oct 2005 From: CENTRAL I Ride: When I can	Years ago it was tried to legislate a HP limit. I was working at our local Honda shop at the time. It was in the 80's. Thankfully the Motorcycle Industry Counsel, the AMA, and other motorcycle watch dog groups got the word out. Its been tried and defeated once. However, we are all still being watched. Loud pipes, speeding (I mean really speeding) stunting on public streets, drinking and riding, swerving in and out of traffic, cop shows showing chase scenes of motorcyclists, they ALL add-up to a negative public image. Riders and Dealers need to be vigilant and spread the word. WE are being watched. We need to 'work together' to keep people who don't ride, keep them from making laws about us. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-14-2008, 01:36 PM	#64
james1300 Track School Dazed Joined: Oct 2005 From: CENTRAL I Ride: When I can	It may never go away, but that doesn't mean we have to sit and not say something to the people creating the problems. Being pro-active and NOT condoning the types of behavior and mod's that attract negative reactions to our sport is what we RIDERS and Dealers need to be doing. Working together, before someone who doesn't ride tries to legislate us. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-14-2008, 06:58 PM	#67
Pointman MotoGP Contender Joined: Aug 2008 From: Puget Sound I Ride: H-D	NYC to Discuss Bill Designed to Harness Cycle SoundPublish date: Dec 11, 2008 New York City Council members are preparing to debate a bill requiring all motorcycles to have tags certifying approval by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). The new measure would let city agents ticket parked motorcycles without the authorities having to prove the bike exceeded the 80 dB limit set by the city's noise code. The bill was approved by New York City’s Public Safety Committee Dec. 10 and goes to the full Council for debate Dec.18. A first conviction carries a maximum $1,000 fine and temporary confiscation of the bike until the penalty is paid. A second conviction hikes the maximum fine to $2,500 and imposes permanent forfeiture. The New York bill was based on an ordinance passed in Denver in 2007. There, as of July 1, 2007, motorcycle owners are required to keep their bikes at 82 dB. The ordinance also requires bikes made after 1982 carry an EPA compliance tag to be displayed on the pipes. The EPA rates maximum permissible noise level for street motorcycles at 80 dB for motorcycles manufactured in model year 1986 or later. However, in many states, legislation has remained unchanged since the early 1970s, when maximum permissible noise level was set at 86 dB. A decibel (dB) is the basic measurement unit for sound. Decibel measurements are made on a logarithmic scale, which means that an increase of 10 decibels approximates a perceived doubling of the noise level. A noise source measuring 70 dB is therefore 10 times louder than a source measuring 60 dB and 100 times louder than a source reading 50 dB. The American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) says it opposes excessive motorcycle noise. In the past several years, the AMA has spent well over $100,000 defending lawsuits and confronting legislative prohibitions. Based on its opposition to excessive motorcycle noise, the AMA has publicly recommended the following: ~Motorcycle retailers should discourage the installation and use of excessively loud replacement exhaust systems. ~Manufacturers producing motorcycles to appropriate federal standards should continue to educate their dealers and customers that louder exhaust systems do not necessarily improve the performance of a motorcycle. ~Motorcyclists should not modify exhaust systems in a way that will increase sound to an offensive level. ~The motorcycle industry, including aftermarket suppliers of replacement exhaust systems, should adopt responsible product design and marketing policies aimed at limiting the cumulative impact of excessive motorcycle noise. ~Law enforcement agencies should fairly and consistently enforce appropriate laws and ordinances against excessive vehicle noise. ~The motorcycle industry and the safety community should educate customers that excessive noise may be fatiguing to riders, making them less able to enjoy riding and less able to exercise good riding skills. ~All motorcyclists should be sensitive to community standards and respect the rights of fellow citizens to enjoy a peaceful environment. ~Organizers of motorcycle events should take steps through advertising, peer pressure and enforcement to make excessively loud motorcycles unwelcome. ~In October, the 2008 American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) Congress passed a 94 dB standard for all amateur and Pro-Am motocross and off-road competition, effective in 2011. The new level mirrors both the 2009 standard for professional motocross and Supercross racing in the United States, as well as the level mandated by the FIM (Federation Internationale de Motocyclisme), which governs international motorcycle competition. Currently, sound limits for amateur motorcycle competition are 99 dB for closed-course competition and 96 dB for cross-country racing. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-14-2008, 09:18 PM	#69
rookie WMRRA Qualifier Joined: Jun 2008 From: port. or. I Ride: 07 zx6r	And they wounder why some bikes out run the popo because of bullshit laws with penalties worse the ditching a doughnutasour . __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-14-2008, 09:29 PM	#70
Desvio Superbiker Joined: Mar 2008 From: Inner SE Portland / Bucerias, Nayarit I Ride: for my sanity, 03' CBR1100XX	My wife grew up in the Bronx, and she said regarding noise. Realistically bikes are the least of the 'noise pollution' there, and that is is obviously revenue generation. Considering the initial impact virtually everyone that rides a bike, as far as the NYPD and State PD are concerned. And we all all know how they think, and she just confirms the 'dick-factor' does really exist there, in a bad attitude way. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-15-2008, 11:26 AM	#71
Toucan Pit Crew Joined: Jul 2007 From: Pugetopolis, WA I Ride: '06 zedX14/'04 Ktm625SXC sm/'07 klr685/'86 fxrd/'01 derbi gp1/'88 Baker F1 sidehack	The bill is still live; but off the immediate vote list. "For Immediate Release 15 December 2008 Contact: Jeff Hennie, Vice President of Government Relations (MRF) Email: jeff@mrf.org New York City Council Pulls Motorcycle Noise Bill. Late last week the New York City Council Committee on Public Safety held a hearing on Introduction No. 416 A titled; "A Local Law to amend the administrative code of the city of New York, in relation to prohibiting the parking of motorcycles equipped with straight pipes on the streets of the city of New York." This bill gives law enforcement the ability to issue fines of $1000 and temporary impoundment for the first infraction and a fine of $2500 and permanent forfeiture of motorcycles with out EPA approved or stock exhaust pipes. The committee, Chaired by council member Peter Vallone a democrat from Queens, did vote in favor of the bill which sent it on to be considered by the full council on week later. The Motorcycle Riders Foundation is pleased to report that for now the bill has been pulled from the schedule for December 18th, when it was to be voted upon by the full council. The MRF thanks Speaker Christine Quinn for realizing that this issue requires much more than one week worth of consideration. "This legislation raises far more problems than it solves" said Jeff Hennie vice president of government relations for the Motorcycle Riders Foundation. "What about older bikes that predate the 1979 clean air act or motorcycles from neighboring states, just to name a few?" he added. The Council will be entering the 4th and last year of the current 4 year session. So this bill is still live and could be considered at any point during the 2009 calendar year. The issue of motorcycle sound can be controversial and is certainly one of the most complicated of all issues related to motorcycles. The MRF will keep you updated on this bill." this is open all next year too. I feel for those who like the nice rumble of the exhaust, but like riding like idiots, the extremes of our sport will bring the hammer of society down on us. It will be our own (un)doing on all fronts (loud pipes; asshat riders) __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-15-2008, 12:37 PM	#72
Robusto Retired Joined: Aug 2006 From: Spokane, WA I Ride: Cuz' it makes me smile!	frog soup. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-15-2008, 01:23 PM	#73
KCander El Duderino "Old Timer" Joined: May 2005 From: Everett I Ride: '00 DRZ400S/SM, '04 CBR1000RR, '95 DR350SE (garaged in Vegas!)	More rules = bad. I agree that there are times when loud pipes can be a nuisance. But c'mon, don't we have enough rules in this country as it is? As long as nobody is getting hurt, can't we just be annoyed for a few seconds and move on? I think those little import tuner cars sound god-awful when I hear these kids tear-assing around with their foot to the floor and their Type R V S Super-Fart exhausts whine away up the highway near my house on Hwy 99. But hey, if I didn't want to worry about traffic noise, I wouldn't be living a block from a highway, would I? I hear trucks on the freeway, which also isn't too far from my house, flipping on their jake brakes. I hear construction equipment. I hear car alarms. I hear fire engines and police sirens. I LIVE IN A CITY. IT'S PART OF THE FUCKING DEAL. My CBR has an aftermarket pipe on it, and while a little extra power and weight savings were factors in the purchase I would say the main reason I bought it was probably because I feel like a sportbike shouldn't sound like a spaceship from the Jetsons. It needs to sound mean. It's not deafening, but I'm sure it's louder than the legal limit. I give a shit. I've got a full Yosh exhaust for my DRZ sitting in my basement right now. I'm installing it because it looks cool, it adds horsepower, and it's loud. I don't give a rat's ass about "loud pipes saving lives", and frankly I don't care, I just want my bike to sound good. And to me, louder is better. Within reason. I realize that my "reason" and your "reason" may different, and I realize that this probably annoys some people. And I'm sorry about that. But not sorry enough to change it. We have too many rules about shit that isn't really hurting anybody as it is. Sure, I make a face and talk some shit when another '87 Honda Prelude squeals and farts its way out of the AMPM across the street, and I agree that there needs to be some general sort of noise pollution regulations in place - I would be pissed if my next door neighbor was out revving his CRF450 at 4am every morning. I'd talk to him, or call the cops if need be, or whatever. But that doesn't mean I need every dirtbike on the planet to run on the Red October silent drive. What I'm saying here is this: If we're not careful about these kinds of rules, we're going to regulate individuality, and eventually a little something called fun, right out of this country. We're doing a pretty damn good job of this already, actually. Philosophically, my right to be an annoying jackass does not override your right to protect your eardrums from unsolicited bleeding. But on the other hand, your right to be a pussy does not override my right to motorcycle badassery. We're both annoyed with each other, so that means the current balance is probably just about right. Once one side gets too many concessions, the other side is probably getting screwed over. Let's agree to all be a little annoyed with each other and that way we all get to keep some of our freedoms. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by KCander; 12-15-2008 at 01:28 PM..


12-15-2008, 01:35 PM	#74
Baystr Zone Head Joined: Sep 2008 From: Salem, OR I Ride: 636 trackbike, 08 CBR 1000RR, 07 CRF450R for mx and sumo had 00 929RR, ZX9R	Why don't we outlaw hippies and their body odor instead?[/QUOTE] Now that is some funny shit right there! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-15-2008, 01:59 PM	#75
Devil_Doc Zone Head Joined: Sep 2008 From: Kirkland via Dallas I Ride: 04 CBR 1000rr	There is already legislation locally regarding the db level on aftermarket car exhaust and on stereo noise. It's worthless, no one enforces it.. It just makes for good press when a politician wants to get re-elected. That being said, we've all seen the fuktards that rap out their cruisers down the main drag of (insert your town here), and the same fuktards that pull wheelies and stoppies right behind the cruisers. Every time a soccer mom sees some squid bringing his front end up at 70mph, that's one step closer to all of us losing the PRIVILEGE to ride. Loud pipes DON"T save lives. Smart riding does. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-15-2008, 02:37 PM	#76
Vigilante Zone Head Joined: Jun 2008 From: Wenatchee I Ride: '03 SV1000s Koppa, '98 VTR1000F SuperKawk, '88 Magna, '84 VF700F Interceptor	Some cops like loud pipes... "Over in Oakland they like it loud -- so loud that all 45 of the Police Department's Harley-Davidson motorcycles have been equipped with shiny new tailpipes, ad a cost of $500.00 apiece, to rev up their roar. It seems that the cops just didn't feel safe on the toned-down bikes. "There's an old motorcycle adage that you are heard before you are seen," said Deputy Chief Dave Kozicki, explaining the department's decision to toss the bikes' muted factory-issued mufflers in favor of the more high-volume pipes. Kozicki cited an accident three months ago in which an Oakland officer riding a toned-down cycle was struck by a motorist who said he hadn’t hear the officer approaching. But some City Hall insiders, as well as motorcycle cops elsewhere, said the safety argument is a stretch. Even the folks at the national Motorcycle Industry Council (MIC) which represents all the big bike manufacturers, were unaware of any safety benefits from louder mufflers. "We encourage all motorcycle riders to keep the original low sound levels that meet the ... federal sound limit of 80 decibels," said industry spokesman Mike Mount. "It would seem counterintuitive that a law enforcement agency would go against federal standards." Ironically, it was just a short time back that Oakland police were called upon to crack down on noisy motorists who had modified their auto mufflers to make a whistling screech. The "whistle tip" pipes were eventually outlawed under state law. Oakland's cops had a long tradition of riding their Harley- Davidson with the modified, louder tail pipes, hearing them the nickname "Rolling Thunder." But after an officer complained about a loss of hearing and other around town questioned whether the police force was violating the very noise standards it was supposed to enforce, the department brass ordered a switch to the quieter stock mufflers. So last year, the department launched a $1,200 study in conjunction with the city’s risk management division to determine whether: A) the louder motorcycles contributed to the officers’ safety, B) were detrimental to their hearing, and C) complied with noise standards. Kozicki acknowledged that whatever safety-related findings the study produced were largely anecdotal. Still, after everything was taken into consideration, the department concluded “it was in the best interest of the officers to put more-audible pipes back on,” Kozicki said. Hence, all 30 of the department’s Harleys were sent down to the central maintenance yard for a muffler makeover at a cost of about $15,000, according to City Hall insiders. Another 15 newly-purchased motorcycles were ordered with the louder pipes, though at no extra charge. Oakland officials acknowledge that the noisy pipes, when tested, averaged 93 decibels – well above the federal legal noise limit, according to the Motorcycle Industry Council. But city Finance Director Mill Nolan, who oversees the risk management division, isn’t alarmed. “if they were riding eight straight hours, it would be a problem,” he said. “But they aren’t.” __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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