PNW Riders

superslushpuppy · 01-13-2009, 07:27 PM

Bring Back the 2 stokes! This article talks about the fact that a modern 2 stroke can run cleaner than a 4stroke. Licensing shouldn't be an issue.

While most everyone else has moved on to the land of 4 strokes, there’s a group of intrepid engineers and builders in Australia devoted to the idea of building a 500cc 2 cylinder 2 stroke motorcycle, starting with the Aprilia RS250 chassis and installing their own highly engineered 2 stroke powerplant.

Grand Prix Engineer Wayne “Wobbly” Wright who has a 30 year career building GP engines and pipes went to work on the engine and the finished piece puts out 112 horsepower and 60 foot pounds of torque. Mounted in a bike weighing 286 pounds total and having the power delivery you would expect from a 2 stroke gives you a bike that one might call entertaining.

The idea here is to bring 2 stroke technology up to the best that can be built right now and place it in a modern frame and suspension package, a combination you can’t buy in your neighborhood showroom.

The company the group formed is called the Two Stroke Shop, and besides many other parts for the 2 stroke fanatic, they offer not only complete RS 500 motorcycles but also the engines alone or kits to adapt your own RS250 to accept their engine.

There are no prices on the site, expensive I’m sure, but what they offer seems somewhat unique. It’s an extremely interesting setup and just the thing to surprise the heck out of your average GSX-R pilot. I like it.

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/20...inder-2-stroke

shelbyguy · 01-13-2009, 07:46 PM

well...if they became mainstream...i might have to add one next to my rsvr, and my rsv4 come october....um yes..entertaining is a good way to put it.

very very cool artice..
thanks SSP

superslushpuppy · 01-13-2009, 07:52 PM

Um, that would be quite a collection of Aprilias.

Avboden · 01-13-2009, 09:06 PM

I'd hit it

JohnnyM · 01-13-2009, 09:12 PM

Hmm...guess I just need to get the motor. But I'd either end up killing myself on it, or selling all the other bikes...

PeteN95 · 01-14-2009, 03:16 PM

It's probably possible, but remember the Bimota V-Due.

dc_sniper9130 · 01-14-2009, 03:32 PM

i myself prefer the more solid feeling of a four-stroke, but that's really awesome that they can build one that runs cleaner than a four.

that kind of technology would be very useful, as a revival of two-stroke boat motors, snowblowers, jet-skis, etc. would be really neat. my only question though is due to this extreme engineering, would they still be cheaper than a four?

gixer_racer · 01-14-2009, 03:44 PM

I'm sure they'll be ultra pricey since they aren't being produced on the economy of scale that the big 4's I4's are being spit out, but maybe some day they would take hold (although not likely :( )

Having had an RS250 and knowing how capable those are with their modest 60ish hp stock, I can only imagine having >100hp would be all kinds of insane fun!!!!!

I'd love to say I'd have one as soon as they are available, but my guess is the price would be out of my modest affordability. lol

JohnnyM · 01-14-2009, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by gixer_racer

Having had an RS250 and knowing how capable those are with their modest 60ish hp stock, I can only imagine having >100hp would be all kinds of insane fun!!!!!

holypiston · 01-14-2009, 03:53 PM

You can buy cylinders for the ole RZ from these guys and bolt up, if i'm not mistaken.

Getting tired of the old traction control?

My guess is, i wouldn't have to work so hard and 3rd/4th gear roll-on wheelies would be easy as the 1 st gear (sorry...popcorn!)wheelies on my daytona.

Raise hell...hellyeah!

1-800-bail-out. Let's start some shi*.

bwa hahaha..

now that's a real street bike i can wrap my legs around. bring it.

leave the sewing machine in the garage.

gixer_racer · 01-14-2009, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by holypiston

You can buy cylinders for the ole RZ from these guys and bolt up, if i'm not mistaken.

Getting tired of the old traction control?

You can mod out to 400cc ish pretty easy IIRC, but they aren't very reliable engines at that point and the gains aren't that great for the cost/effort. Been a while since I read about it, but if I'm not mistaken, the RZ heads just don't flow enough to get great results out of them.

Stuffing an RG500 gamma engine in an RS250 frame makes for some fun results, but finding an RG500 gamma engine in good shape is the tough part...then stuffing it into the frame isn't easy either. I used to drool every time I was at my mechanics house in St. Louis... he had a pristine RG500 sitting in the garage... no way you would canabalize something so nice for a project though.

holypiston · 01-14-2009, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by gixer_racer

You can mod out to 400cc ish pretty easy IIRC, but they aren't very reliable engines at that point and the gains aren't that great for the cost/effort.

I'd probably just send my cylinders to Scott Clough in Cali-town, if i wanted some punch. Price is pretty high for the motors over there.

mcjunky · 01-14-2009, 04:36 PM

With the new ski doo e-tec technology (stolen from evenrude which brp also owns) they are burning ultra clean with the direct injection and pumping 120 horse outa a reliable parallel twin 2 stroke 600cc.
To all that said 2 stroke technology had peaked and they run dirty the epa brainwashing worked

2 stroke for life eh

JohnnyM · 01-14-2009, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by mcjunky

i'm gay

Um...wut?

dc_sniper9130 · 01-14-2009, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyM

Um...wut?

JohnnyM · 01-14-2009, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by mcjunky

<snip>...pumping 120 horse outa a reliable parallel twin 2 stroke 600cc. i'm gay
To all that said 2 stroke technology had peaked and they run dirty the epa brainwashing worked

2 stroke for life eh

Seriously,

Typo from hell? Or are you trying to come out?

holypiston · 01-14-2009, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by mcjunky

With the new ski doo e-tec technology (stolen from evenrude which brp also owns) they are burning ultra clean with the direct injection and pumping 120 horse outa a reliable parallel twin 2 stroke 600cc. i'm gay
To all that said 2 stroke technology had peaked and they run dirty the epa brainwashing worked

2 stroke for life eh

man those motors are monsters. So who cares if i can't ride one to full potential.

Put it in a street bike and let me go hog wild and kill myself.

it will be one less nut on the planet for you to worry about.

Waht's not to like about that?

I thought you'd see it my way.

If you don't bow to my way of thinking. I'll just keep taking my old daytona out on the roads and that motherfrucker smokes like a mad dog.

you choice. i hope you like the smell of injector oil in the evening.

4kers.

midvalleysuperbiker · 01-14-2009, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by PeteN95

It's probably possible, but remember the Bimota V-Due.

The V Due was released for sale before the development was complete.
The result was Bimota was bankrupted and shut down for a number of years, almost forever.

I believe with modern fuel injection and engine control technology it is possible to build a 2 stroke that can pass Euro 3 and EPA standards.

The question is can it be done at a reasonible price?

Avboden · 01-14-2009, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by midvalleysuperbiker

The V Due was released for sale before the development was complete.
The result was Bimota was bankrupted and shut down for a number of years, almost forever.

I believe with modern fuel injection and engine control technology it is possible to build a 2 stroke that can pass Euro 3 and EPA standards.

The question is can it be done at a reasonible price?

Yeah and the V Due is one hell of a bike on the rare occasion when it runs right. I'd LOVE to see bimota give it another shot.

mcjunky · 01-14-2009, 06:06 PM

It happens when you stay logged in...................bastard co workers

Wrench · 01-14-2009, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by PeteN95

It's probably possible, but remember the Bimota V-Due.

Absolutely possible!! You also have to remember the V-Due came off the showroom floors 10 years ago. Computer and fuel injection tech has grown leaps and bounds beyond what it was then.

I had a 2000 RS250 that was tweaked to about 95rwhp (running a detonation counter), so 112 from a modern 500 is a VERY conservative and reliable HP number. I bet that engine is a midrange MONSTER, especially with powervalves and fuel injection.

That bike would be awesome! Same weight as the NSR250 I had, but over 50 more ponies!! Woooohoooo!!

PeteN95 · 01-15-2009, 02:41 PM

The EFI is easy, the trick is lubricating the bottom end with out oil in the fuel and without too many emissions. Two strokes are fun, but I prefer the much more controllable power of a 4 stroke if I'm trying to go fast. Count how many 2 strokes race in the AMA Supermoto series, where they are legal at equal displacement to 4 strokes.

mcjunky · 01-15-2009, 02:58 PM

Pete - when was the last time a 500 2 stroke was actually updated motor wise? 89? Also ski doo has no issues oiling the crank on the new e-tec series sleds

They also use very little oil, get good gas mileage and hell they are even giving a 3 year warranty on plugs!!!!!!
I don't get to race my 500 against 450 4 pops here

JohnnyM · 01-15-2009, 03:30 PM

Once you go 'smoke, you can't NOT choke...or...something...yeah.

Either you get it or you don't...

PeteN95 · 01-16-2009, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by mcjunky

Pete - when was the last time a 500 2 stroke was actually updated motor wise? 89? Also ski doo has no issues oiling the crank on the new e-tec series sleds

They also use very little oil, get good gas mileage and hell they are even giving a 3 year warranty on plugs!!!!!!
I don't get to race my 500 against 450 4 pops here

When? The last time a company thought it made economic sense?

If this technology is so good and available, why are there no 2 stroke cars or motorcycles available that meet emisions?

Nobody is racing a 2 stroke in Supermoto because they are harder to ride fast.

gilberjj · 01-16-2009, 05:11 PM

bring it back...... i love 2 strokes

mcjunky · 01-16-2009, 05:34 PM

No more 2 strokes because it's what the EPA (and honda) wants you to do.

As for emissions look into e-tec direct injection, evinrude can still run on waters where standard 2 strokes are done, sea doo burns very clean as do the ski doo e-tec series. They are smog legal.....hell I believe the 2 stroke direct injected stuff is burning cleaner than the 4 stroke counter parts. In fact I know the evinrude does burn cleaner and is less maintanence then their 4 stroke competitors.

Evinrude's E-TEC won the Clean Air Excellence Award from the US EPA in April 2005. The E-TEC two-stroke outboard engine carbon monoxide emissions are typically 30 to 50 percent lower than a similar four-stroke engine and, at idle, are lower by a factor of 50 to 100 times. This is the first time that a marine engine has received this prestigious recognition.

But you can go ahead and believe what the gubberment keeps telling you

It makes for the perfect citizen in their eyes

superslushpuppy · 01-16-2009, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by mcjunky

No more 2 strokes because it's what the EPA (and honda) wants you to do.

As for emissions look into e-tec direct injection, evinrude can still run on waters where standard 2 strokes are done, sea doo burns very clean as do the ski doo e-tec series. They are smog legal.....hell I believe the 2 stroke direct injected stuff is burning cleaner than the 4 stroke counter parts. In fact I know the evinrude does burn cleaner and is less maintanence then their 4 stroke competitors.

But you can go ahead and believe what the gubberment keeps telling you

It makes for the perfect citizen in their eyes

The new direct injection TNT E-TEC motor passes emission and most importantly a definitive answer to all the 2 stroke nay sayers, 4strokes are not the only answer......

"THE CLIMAX
Two-stroking is all about enjoying that spike of excitement - it's like the mechanical equivalent of an orgasm. Once the power band chimes in, the bike lifts up its skirts like a boat climbing up on the plane, or an aircraft launching into the sky."

superslushpuppy · 01-17-2009, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by holypiston

man those motors are monsters. So who cares if i can't ride one to full potential.

Put it in a street bike and let me go hog wild and kill myself.

it will be one less nut on the planet for you to worry about.

Waht's not to like about that?

I thought you'd see it my way.

If you don't bow to my way of thinking. I'll just keep taking my old daytona out on the roads and that motherfrucker smokes like a mad dog.

you choice. i hope you like the smell of injector oil in the evening.

4kers.


01-13-2009, 07:27 PM	#1
superslushpuppy Streetfighter Joined: Jul 2007 From: Home I Ride: Yamahas	TSS RS500 2 Cylinder 2 Stroke Bring Back the 2 stokes! This article talks about the fact that a modern 2 stroke can run cleaner than a 4stroke. Licensing shouldn't be an issue. While most everyone else has moved on to the land of 4 strokes, there’s a group of intrepid engineers and builders in Australia devoted to the idea of building a 500cc 2 cylinder 2 stroke motorcycle, starting with the Aprilia RS250 chassis and installing their own highly engineered 2 stroke powerplant. Grand Prix Engineer Wayne “Wobbly” Wright who has a 30 year career building GP engines and pipes went to work on the engine and the finished piece puts out 112 horsepower and 60 foot pounds of torque. Mounted in a bike weighing 286 pounds total and having the power delivery you would expect from a 2 stroke gives you a bike that one might call entertaining. The idea here is to bring 2 stroke technology up to the best that can be built right now and place it in a modern frame and suspension package, a combination you can’t buy in your neighborhood showroom. The company the group formed is called the Two Stroke Shop, and besides many other parts for the 2 stroke fanatic, they offer not only complete RS 500 motorcycles but also the engines alone or kits to adapt your own RS250 to accept their engine. There are no prices on the site, expensive I’m sure, but what they offer seems somewhat unique. It’s an extremely interesting setup and just the thing to surprise the heck out of your average GSX-R pilot. I like it. http://thekneeslider.com/archives/20...inder-2-stroke __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by superslushpuppy; 01-13-2009 at 07:41 PM..


01-13-2009, 07:46 PM	#2
shelbyguy Picture Whore Joined: Apr 2008 From: TACOMA / 253 I Ride: my bikes...and all my friends bikes lately	well...if they became mainstream...i might have to add one next to my rsvr, and my rsv4 come october....um yes..entertaining is a good way to put it. very very cool artice.. thanks SSP __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by shelbyguy; 01-13-2009 at 07:51 PM..


01-13-2009, 07:52 PM	#3
superslushpuppy Streetfighter Joined: Jul 2007 From: Home I Ride: Yamahas	Um, that would be quite a collection of Aprilias. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


01-13-2009, 09:06 PM	#4
Avboden MotoGP Contender Joined: Oct 2007 From: Pullman/Spokane, Wa I Ride: 2007 BMW F800S	I'd hit it __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


01-13-2009, 09:12 PM	#5
JohnnyM MotoGP Champion Joined: Jul 2006 From: Pullman, WA I Ride: '73 CB350F, '86 VFR750F, '00 Aprilia RS250, '04 Aprilia RSV1000 R Factory, '04 Aprilia RSV1000 R Factory, '07 Vstar 1100 Classic	Hmm...guess I just need to get the motor. But I'd either end up killing myself on it, or selling all the other bikes... __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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01-14-2009, 03:16 PM	#6
PeteN95 Superbiker Joined: Jan 2008 From: Muk, WA I Ride: Suzuki SV1000N, XR650R, CRF450R	It's probably possible, but remember the Bimota V-Due. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


01-14-2009, 03:32 PM	#7
dc_sniper9130 Superbiker Joined: Jul 2008 From: Spokane, WA I Ride: carefully.	i myself prefer the more solid feeling of a four-stroke, but that's really awesome that they can build one that runs cleaner than a four. that kind of technology would be very useful, as a revival of two-stroke boat motors, snowblowers, jet-skis, etc. would be really neat. my only question though is due to this extreme engineering, would they still be cheaper than a four? __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


01-14-2009, 03:44 PM	#8
gixer_racer MotoGP Contender Joined: Jun 2007 From: Covington, WA I Ride: RC51, TL1000R, GSXR 750 (in pieces), Magna 1100, R6 (track)	I'm sure they'll be ultra pricey since they aren't being produced on the economy of scale that the big 4's I4's are being spit out, but maybe some day they would take hold (although not likely :( ) Having had an RS250 and knowing how capable those are with their modest 60ish hp stock, I can only imagine having >100hp would be all kinds of insane fun!!!!! I'd love to say I'd have one as soon as they are available, but my guess is the price would be out of my modest affordability. lol __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


01-14-2009, 03:53 PM	#10
holypiston Superbiker Joined: Oct 2006 From: Vanquiver, WA I Ride: RD400F Daytonut	You can buy cylinders for the ole RZ from these guys and bolt up, if i'm not mistaken. Getting tired of the old traction control? My guess is, i wouldn't have to work so hard and 3rd/4th gear roll-on wheelies would be easy as the 1 st gear (sorry...popcorn!)wheelies on my daytona. Raise hell...hellyeah! 1-800-bail-out. Let's start some shi. bwa hahaha.. now that's a real street bike i can wrap my legs around. bring it. leave the sewing machine in the garage. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter* Last edited by holypiston; 01-14-2009 at 03:58 PM..


01-14-2009, 04:36 PM	#13
mcjunky Superbiker Joined: Jun 2005 From: spokane I Ride: rz's, rd's, kx's, nsr's, rx, yz with a little zx thrown in	With the new ski doo e-tec technology (stolen from evenrude which brp also owns) they are burning ultra clean with the direct injection and pumping 120 horse outa a reliable parallel twin 2 stroke 600cc. To all that said 2 stroke technology had peaked and they run dirty the epa brainwashing worked 2 stroke for life eh __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by mcjunky; 01-14-2009 at 06:07 PM..


01-14-2009, 06:06 PM	#20
mcjunky Superbiker Joined: Jun 2005 From: spokane I Ride: rz's, rd's, kx's, nsr's, rx, yz with a little zx thrown in	It happens when you stay logged in...................bastard co workers __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


01-15-2009, 02:41 PM	#22
PeteN95 Superbiker Joined: Jan 2008 From: Muk, WA I Ride: Suzuki SV1000N, XR650R, CRF450R	The EFI is easy, the trick is lubricating the bottom end with out oil in the fuel and without too many emissions. Two strokes are fun, but I prefer the much more controllable power of a 4 stroke if I'm trying to go fast. Count how many 2 strokes race in the AMA Supermoto series, where they are legal at equal displacement to 4 strokes. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


01-15-2009, 02:58 PM	#23
mcjunky Superbiker Joined: Jun 2005 From: spokane I Ride: rz's, rd's, kx's, nsr's, rx, yz with a little zx thrown in	Pete - when was the last time a 500 2 stroke was actually updated motor wise? 89? Also ski doo has no issues oiling the crank on the new e-tec series sleds They also use very little oil, get good gas mileage and hell they are even giving a 3 year warranty on plugs!!!!!! I don't get to race my 500 against 450 4 pops here __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


01-15-2009, 03:30 PM	#24
JohnnyM MotoGP Champion Joined: Jul 2006 From: Pullman, WA I Ride: '73 CB350F, '86 VFR750F, '00 Aprilia RS250, '04 Aprilia RSV1000 R Factory, '04 Aprilia RSV1000 R Factory, '07 Vstar 1100 Classic	Once you go 'smoke, you can't NOT choke...or...something...yeah. Either you get it or you don't... __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


01-16-2009, 05:11 PM	#26
gilberjj Zone Head Joined: Feb 2008 From: Olympia, WA I Ride: Kawasaki zx14	bring it back...... i love 2 strokes __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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