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Old 09-14-2012, 08:50 PM   #1
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vsid's Avatar
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Joined: Aug 2012
From: "The East"

I Ride: GSXR
Question Electrical System
Ok, so here it goes. I have a 2006 gsxr 600. I was riding down the road and as I look down, I see that my temp starts rising past the regular where it usually sits. So as I'm riding, continually checking the temp, it goes up about 10 degrees in fahrenheit than usual and shuts off... I try to start the bike back up, and nothing, dead battery. Long story short, I recharged the battery and check the voltage with the bike running. At idle speeds, all power is coming from the battery, the generator kicks in as the revs increase. Obviously this isn't normal and I have no idea where to start. I've never did any mechanical or electrical work on a bike, but I have worked plenty on cars and know how to use tools. I would really appreciate it, if someone could point me in the right direction. Thank you in advance.

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Old 09-14-2012, 09:03 PM   #2
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Andy Capp's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2010
From: Marysville, WA

I Ride: 08 675, 72 XL250, 93 PW80, 80 GS250
Your fan has stopped working? Low coolant? Start simple and keep it that way.

Btw there is a gsxr fault code sticky at the top of this section. Getting a shop manual will help explain things for you as you go, like expecting no/little initial charge at idle rpms.

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Old 09-14-2012, 09:10 PM   #3
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Joined: Aug 2012
From: "The East"

I Ride: GSXR
As far as the temp, I believe as the battery lost power, the fan stopped working. I did take a look at the sticky, but no error/fault codes were thrown. So technically everything is working as it should, but my battery is draining awfully fast especially when I'm in traffic and the rpms stay low. Also, the generator is still producing power, just not at low rpms.

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Old 09-14-2012, 09:35 PM   #4
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Joined: Oct 2010
From: Marysville, WA

I Ride: 08 675, 72 XL250, 93 PW80, 80 GS250
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by vsid View Post
As far as the temp, I believe as the battery lost power, the fan stopped working. I did take a look at the sticky, but no error/fault codes were thrown. So technically everything is working as it should, but my battery is draining awfully fast especially when I'm in traffic and the rpms stay low. Also, the generator is still producing power, just not at low rpms.
If I maybe so bold as to ask how you came to that conclusion?

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Old 09-17-2012, 10:05 PM   #5
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Joined: Jul 2012
From: granite falls, wa

I Ride: a, no its not a busa
I know it sounds stupid but always start simple and the retardedly obvious, I've had electrical issues in the past that were nothing but a fuse and or a relay

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Old 09-18-2012, 04:58 AM   #6
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Joined: Oct 2005
From: CENTRAL

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Have you check'd the battery? Have you cleaned the battery cables and terminals?
Have you load tested the battery to see if its still good? Have you attempted to recharge the battery?

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Old 09-18-2012, 10:58 PM   #7
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Joined: Aug 2012
From: "The East"

I Ride: GSXR
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Capp View Post
If I maybe so bold as to ask how you came to that conclusion?
I connected a multimeter and watched the voltage on idle and with throttle open.

“ Quote:
Originally Posted by badcomebackguy View Post
I know it sounds stupid but always start simple and the retardedly obvious, I've had electrical issues in the past that were nothing but a fuse and or a relay
Believe me, thats the first thing I did. I had a lighting issue with my car once, spent the whole day trying to figure it out, trying everything, only to find out, the fuse for the light was one slot over and I never noticed...

“ Quote:
Originally Posted by james1300 View Post
Have you check'd the battery? Have you cleaned the battery cables and terminals?
Have you load tested the battery to see if its still good? Have you attempted to recharge the battery?
The battery terminals are pretty much spotless, and cables look decent. I recharged the battery 100% the first time it happened, the second time I recharged the battery to 100% again, and connected a light with known current, and left it on untill the battery was pretty close to dead, and came to the conclusion that the battery holds its charge pretty well, and the issue is not with the battery.

After talking with some people, I believe the issue is with the rectifier, but im not certain, and will be doing some more tests tomorrow to hopefully figure out whats going on. Thanks all for your input, I highly appreciate it!

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Old 09-19-2012, 05:57 AM   #8
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Joined: May 2011
From: LaCenter, WA

I Ride: 2003 Copper SV1K
What exactly were the voltages at idle and revving? Key off and key on? Voltage during start?

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Old 09-19-2012, 06:05 AM   #9
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Joined: May 2011
From: Everett. WA

I Ride: GS1150 Rat bike, NSR(G)500cc two stroke,CBR 900rr, 00 VFR800f
Check the amp draw on the fan too. Could be the fan is dieing/something is stuck in there causing it to over heat?

Just guessing.

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Old 09-19-2012, 07:36 AM   #10
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Joined: Aug 2012
From: "The East"

I Ride: GSXR
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by RedKat600 View Post
What exactly were the voltages at idle and revving? Key off and key on? Voltage during start?
When I checked, the voltage with key off was 12.8v. When turned on/idle, it slowly started to drop, I opened the throttle around 12.2v and kept it at 4-5k rpm and the voltage went back up to about 12.8v/13.0v. I never checked the voltage during start.

Thanks for the input.

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Old 09-19-2012, 07:43 AM   #11
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Joined: May 2011
From: LaCenter, WA

I Ride: 2003 Copper SV1K
So it looks like it may be the regulator or the stator. Time to get a manual and test each component.

Given that the voltage did rise with RPM, I'm thinking it's actually the stator rather than the regulator/rectifier. Looks to me like there may be a burnt winding or two. IIRC, GSXR's are notorious for cooking stators and rectifiers.

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Old 09-19-2012, 08:16 AM   #12
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Joined: Dec 2004
From: Kirkland, WA

I Ride: ZX14
I believe the voltage at 4-5K rpms should be ~13.5 vdc, rather than the measured 12.8-13 vdc.

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Old 09-19-2012, 08:22 AM   #13
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Joined: May 2011
From: LaCenter, WA

I Ride: 2003 Copper SV1K
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvTravis View Post
I believe the voltage at 4-5K rpms should be ~13.5 vdc, rather than the measured 12.8-13 vdc.
Should be at least 13.5 if not closer to 14 VDC. Check the stator and the rectifier. I'm leaning towards stator just because of the fact that you have increased voltage, just not much. Usually indicative of a burnt stator.

Typically rectifiers either work or they don't. There is a continuity test to be performed with an Ohm meter but you'll need a manual for the Ohm specs and the wires to test.

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Old 09-19-2012, 09:05 AM   #14
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Joined: Oct 2010
From: Marysville, WA

I Ride: 08 675, 72 XL250, 93 PW80, 80 GS250
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by vsid View Post
I connected a multimeter and watched the voltage on idle and with throttle open.



Believe me, thats the first thing I did. I had a lighting issue with my car once, spent the whole day trying to figure it out, trying everything, only to find out, the fuse for the light was one slot over and I never noticed...



The battery terminals are pretty much spotless, and cables look decent. I recharged the battery 100% the first time it happened, the second time I recharged the battery to 100% again, and connected a light with known current, and left it on untill the battery was pretty close to dead, and came to the conclusion that the battery holds its charge pretty well, and the issue is not with the battery.

After talking with some people, I believe the issue is with the rectifier, but im not certain, and will be doing some more tests tomorrow to hopefully figure out whats going on. Thanks all for your input, I highly appreciate it!
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by vsid View Post
When I checked, the voltage with key off was 12.8v. When turned on/idle, it slowly started to drop, I opened the throttle around 12.2v and kept it at 4-5k rpm and the voltage went back up to about 12.8v/13.0v. I never checked the voltage during start.

Thanks for the input.
Check the "dropping" battery voltage without the bike running. Check again at 1500rpm, 2000rpm and 3000rpm. At what point does the bike start charging and at what point does the battery voltage stabilise. Also check the battery voltage when attempting to start.

If you short the temp switch how long will the fan run without the bike running?

I highlighted the another part where you don't provide the info needed to help. There is no point to steer us or yourself into a particular diagnosis. For me, you have not ruled out the battery (which seems at this point the most likely from your numbers). How much current can it generate and for how long? Does it match the specs? How long does it take to recharge? Does it have it's full capacity?

Unless you are checking your charging system with a current meter you can get very blindsided by a battery that appears to be good as this greatly effects system voltages.

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Old 09-19-2012, 09:44 AM   #15
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Joined: Jul 2005
From: spokane

I Ride: other peoples when they let me, working on Honda VF750
charging voltage @ 5k seems little low = alt or reg
there is test or alt.

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Old 09-19-2012, 10:29 AM   #16
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vsid's Avatar
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Joined: Aug 2012
From: "The East"

I Ride: GSXR
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by RedKat600 View Post
So it looks like it may be the regulator or the stator. Time to get a manual and test each component.

Given that the voltage did rise with RPM, I'm thinking it's actually the stator rather than the regulator/rectifier. Looks to me like there may be a burnt winding or two. IIRC, GSXR's are notorious for cooking stators and rectifiers.
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by RedKat600 View Post
Should be at least 13.5 if not closer to 14 VDC. Check the stator and the rectifier. I'm leaning towards stator just because of the fact that you have increased voltage, just not much. Usually indicative of a burnt stator.

Typically rectifiers either work or they don't. There is a continuity test to be performed with an Ohm meter but you'll need a manual for the Ohm specs and the wires to test.
Thanks! I'll take a look at it today! I have the manual, so now I just need to see what the bike is outputting.

“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Capp View Post
Check the "dropping" battery voltage without the bike running. Check again at 1500rpm, 2000rpm and 3000rpm. At what point does the bike start charging and at what point does the battery voltage stabilise. Also check the battery voltage when attempting to start.

If you short the temp switch how long will the fan run without the bike running?

I highlighted the another part where you don't provide the info needed to help. There is no point to steer us or yourself into a particular diagnosis. For me, you have not ruled out the battery (which seems at this point the most likely from your numbers). How much current can it generate and for how long? Does it match the specs? How long does it take to recharge? Does it have it's full capacity?

Unless you are checking your charging system with a current meter you can get very blindsided by a battery that appears to be good as this greatly effects system voltages.
My apologies, I never stated my background. I'm currently about half way through my bachelors course in electrical engineering, my father, who's been helping me out, has been in the field for about 12 years. Electronics and electrical systems are not new to me, electrical systems on a bike, however are. When checking the voltage, the battery was not fully charged, I was checking to see if anything was coming from the generator. When checking the battery however, it was fully charged and an ohm meter was used to measure the current, and the battery's amp hours was used to determine how long the light should stay on, if the battery still held it charged. After the test, I came to the conclusion that the battery is still functioning properly and therefore ruled it out.

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Old 09-19-2012, 10:43 AM   #17
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MidwesterneRR's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
From: Lynnwood, WA

I Ride: 1998 CBR900rr for the street and 2007 CBR600rr for the track
Step 1: Buy or download a manual
Step 2: Test Stator and regulator per the manual (or a little internet investigation will give you the procedure but every manual ive bought has paid for itself 10x)
Step 3: Replace faulty component(s)

Im with redkat, uuuusually a rectifier is dead or not, so likely the stator, but do the tests and you'll know.

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Old 09-19-2012, 11:06 AM   #18
Novice Racer
Andy Capp's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2010
From: Marysville, WA

I Ride: 08 675, 72 XL250, 93 PW80, 80 GS250
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by vsid View Post
Thanks! I'll take a look at it today! I have the manual, so now I just need to see what the bike is outputting.



My apologies, I never stated my background. I'm currently about half way through my bachelors course in electrical engineering, my father, who's been helping me out, has been in the field for about 12 years. Electronics and electrical systems are not new to me, electrical systems on a bike, however are. When checking the voltage, the battery was not fully charged, I was checking to see if anything was coming from the generator. When checking the battery however, it was fully charged and an ohm meter was used to measure the current, and the battery's amp hours was used to determine how long the light should stay on, if the battery still held it charged. After the test, I came to the conclusion that the battery is still functioning properly and therefore ruled it out.
I hope you take my posts to be respectful if you are electrically inclined get a DC clamp meter and see for sure what current you have and where it is going. Voltages only let you see part of the story. A clamp meter will quickly give you your charge current and any potential leakage. Closed circuit voltages rely significantly on the state of the battery and not necessarily the condition of associated components. Ie battery voltage does not measure alt or r/r output!

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Old 12-21-2012, 10:55 PM   #19
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Joined: Aug 2012
From: "The East"

I Ride: GSXR
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Capp View Post
I hope you take my posts to be respectful if you are electrically inclined get a DC clamp meter and see for sure what current you have and where it is going. Voltages only let you see part of the story. A clamp meter will quickly give you your charge current and any potential leakage. Closed circuit voltages rely significantly on the state of the battery and not necessarily the condition of associated components. Ie battery voltage does not measure alt or r/r output!
Sorry, ended up re-reading my post and sounded like an a$$. My apologies. Anyway, long story short, I sort of figured out the problem. Exactly one week ago, my bike decided to die out on me. I was riding and then randomly the RPM's drop to zero, and about a min later, the motor dies. So I turn it off, then turn it back on and start the motor again. Again like 10 min later, the RPM's drop to 0 again and a min. later the motor dies again. So I try starting it up one more time and again after about 5-10 min later the RPM's drop to 0 again, but then jump back up, and drop one final time back to 0. Finally when I stop, there is some smoke coming up from under the tank. I finally got a chance to take it apart today and found out the rectifier is completely shot(the back part had a huge crack across it). Funny part is I checked it in the very beginning and it was working just fine. So I'm assuming it was the rectifier from the very beginning.

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Old 12-21-2012, 11:54 PM   #20
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Joined: Mar 2009
From: Spokane Valley

I Ride: Suzuki Boulevard C90, Suzuki DRZ400E, My Wife's Scooter
Unless a failure elsewhere in the system toasted the regulator/rectifier.



KevinD

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