| Motorcycle rides and riders in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, British Columbia | |||||||
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Thanks for the tips you guys | |
06-12-2006, 10:10 PM
| #44 |
| Endorsed Joined: Jun 2005 From: Moscow, ID | I use Chevron Delo 400 Synthetic. It is shizzle and is cheap at Wallmart. 100% Synthetic and I could hear the difference between that and dino oil. My motor idles quieter and can change it twice as often as Mobil 1 for the same price. |
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06-13-2006, 12:10 AM
| #46 |
| Streetfighter Joined: Jan 2005 From: Pullman, WA I Ride: 2004 dark, handsome Italian | I have about 700 miles on my latest oil change with Mobil 1 synthetic on my bike. Didn't notice a single bit of difference, once that oil change interval is up, it's back to regular ol' Castrol GTX goodness for me. Or maybe I'll use up that gallon container of Honda 20W-50 oil I have sitting around. Either way, no more $30 for five quarts of M1 at Wally World for me! |
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07-01-2006, 01:29 PM
| #47 | |
| Ducati Seattle  Joined: Jan 2005 From: Bremerton,WA I Ride: all of them | 
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07-01-2006, 03:01 PM
| #48 |
| WMRRA Qualifier Joined: Jan 2006 From: Spokane, WA I Ride: 2006 GSX-R 1000, 2002 GSX-R 600 Telefonica MoviStar | Man that was a good read. I have been wondering how MC oil stacks up and i figured as much. Good thread and Mobile 1 or Rotella is on my shopping list for oil. Thanks for the info, i have been using Dino-oil so far so i havent been totally skrewed it is MC oil but its from Shucks. Good stuff so far but im just over 3000 and ready for the slippery stuff.  |
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07-01-2006, 03:51 PM
| #49 |
| Pilot in Command | Personlly don't see the big deal.. if it makes you sleep nights then use what you want, personlly I'll give my baby the best I can give for the buck.. don't really care what everyone else thinks or says, I know what I know, and I know whats worked for me. Ha! think this is bad try looking into the avaition industry. so Buz, you change that oil? |
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07-22-2006, 11:44 AM
| #50 |
| Training Wheels Joined: Jul 2006 From: your moms house I Ride: 1974 gs450 w/ turbo | anybody who runs car oil in their bike is probably so slow their clutch wouldnt slip anyway. thats the funny thing. car oils have a complately different list of priorities than motorcycle grade oils. they are: 1. emissions. 2. fuel economy 3. mileage then 4. performance of the oil. motorcycle grade oils are developed with job number 1 being to protect your motor and give the best performance possible. i run maxima maxum4 extra in my truck. |
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07-29-2006, 10:09 PM
| #51 | |
| Streetfighter Joined: Jan 2005 From: Pullman, WA I Ride: 2004 dark, handsome Italian |
I'm also switching back to dino oil ASAP, Mobil 1 is awfully pricey for the same feel. Perhaps Blackstone Labs will say it lasts longer, but I'll see in a few weeks. | |
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08-14-2006, 08:28 PM
| #52 | |
| Zone Head Joined: Feb 2005 From: Pasco |
 Dude, do some REAL research on oil. Start by learning about BASE STOCKS and ADDITIVES. I run car oil in my bikes, have for a long time. And my tracktimes are DEFINATELY none too shabby...  -Mobil 1 15w50 -Shell Rotella T synthetic Both can be purchased at Walmart for WAY less than what the bike shops charge.  Oh, by the way. I know a guy who ran "bike specific" oil since his bike was brand spanking NEW, and changed it RELIGIOUSLY. He rode pretty decent, but didnt flog the snot out of it ('99 Katana 600). At about 20k, his clutch started slipping a little in the higher gears at high rpm. I told him to switch the the Mobil 1. He did. His clutch quit slipping ALL TOGETHER. So, please explain to me how that happened and how that fits into your ignorant theory about oils.   | |
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08-14-2006, 08:30 PM
| #53 | |
| Track School Dazed  Joined: Oct 2005 From: CENTRAL I Ride: When I can | 
Last edited by james1300; 08-14-2006 at 08:44 PM.. | |
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08-14-2006, 10:25 PM
| #54 |
| Newbie Joined: Aug 2006 From: Everett, WA I Ride: CBR1000RR | Just to continue the flogging, here's a link to a recent car vs cycle oil study: http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html |
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08-15-2006, 08:55 PM
| #55 | |
| Zone Head Joined: Feb 2005 From: Pasco |
  Awesome article!! Page two has all the tech date; really good!! | |
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08-15-2006, 10:40 PM
| #57 |
| Zone Head Joined: Feb 2005 From: Pasco | I can tell you from personal experience that the Mobil 1 makes a positive improvement in shifting. I have heard alot of others state the same thing. I find the Shell Rotella T shifts the same as the Mobil 1. I dont believe the article said anything about shifting feel, though. |
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08-15-2006, 10:48 PM
| #59 |
| Paralized with excitement Joined: May 2005 From: Spokane I Ride: GSX-R's | When you say Mobil 1 do you have you tried both the auto and motorcycle versions? I tried M1 motorcycle a while back and didn't notice improvement. Last oil change in my 749 was to Redline and it seemed to make shifting very smooth. Redline doesn't make a motorcycle oil. I wonder if the Royal Purple is as good as Redline? The have RP hear at the general store and it is on sale $7.99 for the full synthetic motorcycle oil. |
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08-21-2006, 02:46 PM
| #64 | |
| Paralized with excitement Joined: May 2005 From: Spokane I Ride: GSX-R's |
What is the deal? | |
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08-21-2006, 03:04 PM
| #65 |
| Newbie Joined: Aug 2006 From: Spokane WA I Ride: CBR600RR | I used Mobil 1 Red Cap until they reworked their oil product line with new flashy bottles and added the Extended Performance oils. Now I can't find anything that is considered "Energy Conserving" that's not 15-50. I liked buying the 5-30 Mobil 1 that was not energy conserving by the 5 quart jug... now I buy the Mobil 1 MXT motorcycle oil at Schucks ($7.99/quart). I was tempted to switch to a different synthetic oil but I really wanted to stick with Mobil 1 and I guess I will pay the higher price for the motorcycle specific oil if I can't find what I need in the Automotive oils. |
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09-04-2006, 08:12 AM
| #66 |
| Streetfighter Joined: Jan 2005 From: Pullman, WA I Ride: 2004 dark, handsome Italian | I recently received an oil analysis report from Blackstone Labs with the second oil change on my 599. I used Mobil 1 "full synthetic" gold cap - 15W30, not energy-conservering. It's interesting to note the Mobil 1 15W-30 has more "moly" (molybdenum), at a concentration of 79 parts per million (PPM) than: Castrol GTX 20W-50 (27 PPM), Castrol GTX 5W-30 (47 PPM), and Valvoline 5W-30 (50 PPM). Only Pennzoil 5W-30 has more, at 161 PPM. So it's actually easier on your motorcycle's wet clutch to use the "energy conserving" Castrol GTX oils and Valvoline than Mobile 1's gold cap offerings. Food for thought. (For clarification, I only ran the Castrol GTX 20W-50 and Mobil 1 15W-30 in my bikes, the rest are from samples from my Civic). |
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10-13-2006, 08:00 PM
| #67 |
| Streetfighter Joined: Jan 2005 From: Pullman, WA I Ride: 2004 dark, handsome Italian | More oil analysis shennanigans. This time I'll compare Mobil 1 SUV 10W30 (non energy conserving) to Honda's standard GN4 20W-50. Both oils were in my bike for 2,500 miles with a SuperTech (Walmart) oil filter. First off, wear was almost identical. There was negligable difference in wear. Viscocity at 210 degrees F showed the synthetic Mobil 1 ahead of Honda's oil. However, there was 1% fuel dilution in the Honda oil sample, probably from the idling it does when it's warming up the cold mornings it had. One item to note is both oils were below the viscocity they should be at, even after 2,500 miles. Bike motors and transmissions are hard on oil. The additive packages vary a bit, but not as much as I would have thought. Honda's oil had about 70% of the molybdenum additive in it that the Mobil 1 had. That's the stuff that's rough on your motorcycle clutch. The Mobil 1 oil had 79 parts per million (PPM) while Honda's oil had 56. For reference, Castrol GTX 20W-50 has 27 PPM. Mobil 1 had an awful lot of Calcium, a cleaning additive. 2275 PPM, Honda had 1829. Castrol GTX 20W-50 has a bunch, as well: 2286 PPM. So what am I getting at? I suppose my oil samples reinforce my belief of it's not what oil you run, it's how often you change it. You could probably run the cheapest oil at Walmart in your bike and be just fine as long as you change it every 2,500 miles. You may be safer running the oil for longer, or 2,500 might cause the oil to come out coked up and nasty. The only way to truly tell what works for your bike and your riding habits is to have the oil analyzed. A parting note: the energy conserving Castol GTX 5W-30 my Civic uses has less anti-wear, slippery additives than either the Honda GN4 oil tested or the Mobil 1. Interesting! |
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11-30-2006, 11:57 PM
| #68 |
| Newbie Joined: Nov 2006 From: Olympia, WA I Ride: Honda Superhawk Streetfighter, MotoGuzzi V11 Sport, SR500, XR250, GS1000L | More Info in support of Rotella Oil (The one available at WallMart) http://www.rotella.com/qa/answerresult.php?rowid=169 I was searching the web for more information on the Rotella oil in the SH and found this response from Rotella's experts. Thought it was interesting so copied and pasted from the web site (address above). I think I will also try it and give feedback. Can heavy-duty diesel oil be used in motorcycles? Motorcycle gasoline engines may not seem in the same league as the big displacement diesel engine under your hood, but they share some of the same lubrication requirements. So yes, in many cases, a premium heavy-duty universal oil capable of serving both diesel and gasoline engines is the best choice for your bike. The high power-to-displacement ratio of a motorcycle engine means rod and main bearings are subjected to loads that are not normally found in passenger car engines. The valve train is also highly loaded, and requires extreme pressure boundary lubrication. The same can be said about gears in the transmission, which are normally lubricated by engine oil. Oil additives containing phosphorus protect these highly loaded extreme pressure areas (in both gasoline and diesel engines). Because diesel engines have higher loading of components, more of the phosphorus-containing additive is present than in typical passenger car oils. And with advanced catalyst systems for gasoline engines, the phosphorus content has been declining in passenger car oils. Since many bike engines are air-cooled, and tend to be operated at high power outputs and speeds, their lubricating oil needs to be more resistant to high temperature oxidation. That’s another advantage of a premium universal oil. Another thing you want in your motorcycle is oil that has excellent viscosity control, so that with use it retains high temperature viscosity. Some multiviscosity grade passenger car oils, subjected to extreme loads, can quickly thin out. Their viscosity can drop to the next lower grade. One last thing to consider is whether oil contains friction modifier additives. For improved fuel economy, most passenger car oils have such an additive. But the wet clutch in your bike doesn’t perform right with friction modifiers. Universal engine oils don’t have friction modifiers. Be careful choosing diesel oils. Not all of them are universal. In addition to the API Service Category CI-4 PLUS for diesels, look for API Service Category SL. Premium universal oils like Shell ROTELLA® T Multigrade are formulated for heavy-duty performance, and your bike engine has some heavy-duty challenges for oil. For optimum performance, be sure your oil is up to the challenge. |
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12-29-2006, 09:30 PM
| #69 | |
| Pit Crew Joined: Dec 2006 From: Kennewick, WA I Ride: DRZ400SM (Dirted) |  This is one of the most disturbing threads I've ever read. I love my bike, it takes me places I'd rather not walk out of. It get's the best, in my opinion that's Red Line 10w40 full synthetic (100%Ester basestocks, the only 'true' full synthetic). I have talked to riders AND test ridden bikes that were slipping with 'car' oil in them, and so far every one has cleared up with a DECENT motorcycle oil. I'm sure many bikes will run fine for 50 or 60k, but wouldn't it be better to have them run fine for 100 or 200k? In my experience, the most anal riders about what they put in their motors are Goldwing and BMW riders. Most high mileage (over 100K)bikes I've seen...you guessed it GOLDWINGS AND BMW!! One last point...most late model, large displacement sportbikes come with a 'slipper' clutch from the factory(reduces rear wheel sliding when downshifting too fast). I can think of at least half a dozen of these that came to me experiencing the motor racing when they hammered it, but very little acceleration "I can't even keep up anymore and my bike used to be faster". In each of these cases, a full synthetic was used in their last oil change and a semi syn or fossil oil cleared up the problem. These are things I deal with DAILY and it DOES HAPPEN!! Seein alot more CAR TIRES, yes flat, square CAR TIRES on VTX's lately too, "gets far more miles than a MC tire" with a contact patch the size of a pea!  I beg you all, don't be "that" guy!
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04-19-2007, 12:46 PM
| #70 | |
| Training Wheels Joined: Apr 2007 From: Kelowna, BC Canada I Ride: 2006 zx6rr + 2008 zx6r |
Ok, lets discuss the facts. Dino juice, or group 3 oils are 99% of the motor oil market. Back in 1999 Castra came out with their Castral Syntec, and labeled it a full synthetic. Castral Syntec is a group 3 petroleum base, with a higher refined process called Hydrocracking. This more refined process takes out more of the cock roach bits. Exxon mobil sued castral, for false marketing, and the judge declaired "synthetic" a marketing term, not based on the oils components. Now all the "synthetic" oils are higher refined dino juice. The few who still use Poly-Alpha-Olefin (group 4 base stock) are Synthetic diesel oils, and Amsoil. Redline uses group 5 base called Polyesters or diesters. If you go buy mobil 1 synthetic, it is a group 3 base. What you want to buy is the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel truck 5w40, or Delvac 1. (same diesel oil) Viscosity is the single most important characteristic of a lubricant. When you buy your (energy conserving) API oil, you are not protecting your motor. Even new cars are being sold with 0w-30 or 5w-20, not to prevent engine wear, but to meet the their emissions. The car manufactures work with the oil companies to increase profits. With the low viscosity oil, the oil must be changed more. Now they are recommending 3000mile oil changes, which will almost double the oil sales. GM is happy because they get good fuel ecomony, and when the cars break down, they sell more cars. Your 5w30 petroleum motor oil will break down in SAE after 1500miles. The 5w30 is now a 5w20. It is important to maintain viscosity, because the oil is what prevents metal to metal contact. If the oil is too thin, metal will touch, and friction will build, causing your motor to run hot. Think of oil as your leathers. When you slide along the ground, your leathers are preventing skin to surface contact. This reduces friction (haha maybe) and prevents wear. If your leathers are cheap petroleum base, and break down over time, you are going to have skin to pavement contact. You want to buy the 5mm thick racing leathers, just like you want the higher viscousity of a 40wt oil. Many oil changes is not a good thing either. 75 % of your engine wear occurs when starting the motor after an oil change. The other 25% is from the first few minutes of a cold engine start. This is why a wide viscousity grade is preferable. I am putting Amsoil 5w40 european forumla in my 94 modified miata, because I do many short trips. The 5w will be good for inital startup, and the thick 40wt will hold up for 12 000km or 7000miles. I change my oil 1/3 as much, reducing wear, and ofcouse the synthetic reduces friction, helping my car run cooler. It is also important to pick the appropriate SAE for your specific application. You don't want to put 20w50 in a stock miata, which the manufacturer recommends 5w30. The extra effort to move the thicker viscosity(friction), can also increase engine temps. Picking the right SAE grade is important for the most efficent motor, with optimal engine protection. Synthetic has so many advantages over convential oils. Conventional oils, flow in Layers (Laminar flow), while synthetics flow in Turbulent pattern. This moves heat into the oil stream and away from components. Layering doesn't allow the hot oil beside the bearings to flow away.. it builds up and holds its ground. Syn. resists thermal and oxidative damage. Performance = Less fricton -petroleum oil ages, cuasing oil volatility and oil exidation to thicken the oil. Oxidation = sludge, varnish, and acids. Conventional lubricants are refined from crude oil. Refining is a process of physically separating light from heavy oil fractions. Crude oil is a natural substance. It contains millions of different kinds of molecules. Many are similar in weight but dissimilar in structure. So refined lubricants contain a wide assortment of molecules. Not all of these molecules are beneficials to the lubricaiton process. Example, Paraffin, a common refined lubricant component that is not useful.(in the way). Some refined lubricant molecules also may contain sulfur, nitrogen and oxygen, which act as contaminants and can cause sludge formation. Synthetics lubricants are not refined. They are chemically engineered from pure chemicals. Besides, it is cheaper over a year to run Synthetic (which costs 2X more), but you will change your oil, as least half as much. Amsoil recommends 25 000 mile or 1 year drain intervals with their 5w30, and 10w30 car oil. (contains friction modifiers) Under racing use, 15 000miles. With Amsoils motorcycle oil 10w40 or 20w50 and their car premium 10w40, 20w50, their are no friction modifiers. They recommend 15 000mile change intervals. Don't forget about your oil filter though. Most filters on the market suck. YOu want a Pure One filter or one of amsoils Nanofibre filters. The answer is simple.. stock filters are like a jungle of tree branches.. all differn't sizes. The oil goes deep into the filter getting cloged onthe thinner brances. It creates a path which all the oil flows, like rivers in the amazon. This clogs the filter sooner, opening the bypass valve, and now you don't have a filter. The nano fibre and high quality fitlers have all the same size (branches). It won't clog as easily, and the oil flows through the entire filter.. not just following a river deep into the jungel. haha i know my comparisons suck. ha Anywho... The time spent changing oil, or paying for labour is another great reason to use PAO (group 4) real "synthetics." Some (high quality) conventional oils contain highquality Additives. The additives will last 12000km, but the petroleum base stock wont. Both the base stock and additives need to be high quality. Price is sometimes a clue, but knowledge is the best defense. Be informed. Same Same But Different.  | |
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04-19-2007, 04:37 PM
| #71 | |
| WMRRA Qualifier Joined: Jun 2006 From: Seattle, WA I Ride: 2006 Triumph S3 |
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04-19-2007, 04:44 PM
| #72 | |
| Training Wheels Joined: Apr 2007 From: Kelowna, BC Canada I Ride: 2006 zx6rr + 2008 zx6r |
I will change my miata oil every 15 000miles or 1 year, and my 323 every 25 000miles or 1 year. Bike oil will be changed every 2 or 3 race weekends.  | |
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04-19-2007, 04:58 PM
| #73 | |
| WMRRA Qualifier Joined: May 2006 From: The Land of Milk & Honey I Ride: 05 Kawasaki ZX6R |
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09-04-2007, 06:35 PM
| #75 | |
| MotoGP Contender Joined: Jul 2006 From: bellingham, wa I Ride: water buffalo | Ok so I read everything here. Which shell rotella t are u guys talkin bout? Viscousity I mean. Different oil different viscousity, u guys are playing with my head haha I wanna try the shell rotella t synth truck oil which viscousity Should I get, just the 10.40 that says on my 04 r6? Bubba z? What is the viscousity u use on ur bussa?
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09-04-2007, 06:46 PM
| #76 | |
| MotoGP Contender Joined: Feb 2006 From: Dri-Shities, WA I Ride: GSX-R's |
Both my 2001 & 2005 GSX-R's run & shift almost identical running Rotella as when I used to use AmsOil or Maxima full synth motorcycle oil. I have magnetic drain plugs on both bikes & I haven't found ANY metal particles on them! | |
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09-06-2007, 02:39 PM
| #78 | |
| Training Wheels Joined: Apr 2007 From: Kelowna, BC Canada I Ride: 2006 zx6rr + 2008 zx6r |
Dirty Oil is the typical determining factor for most people. Others are simply following the recommended drain intervals. So why are the vehical manufactures recommending 5000km drain intervals? Petrolium oil breaks down in many ways. The oil's viscousity will change dramatically in under 3000km, either thinkening or thinning. Example: a 10w30- will turn into a 10w20 which will cause metal to metal contact, which creates more heat, and more wear. Petroleum oil ages, causing oil volatility and oil oxidation. Oxidation equals sludge, varnish and acids. Conventional oils flow in layers (laminar flow), while "real" PAO synthetic's flow in a turbulent pattern, which moves heat into the oil stream and away from components. Another important reason we change our motorcycle's Oil, is its ability to resist SHEARING. Typical gearboxes require a 75w90 gear oil, which is super shear resistant, but many motorcycles use one oil for the clutch, tranny, and motor. It is difficult to have the best of the best in all fields, and most oils fall short due to chemical costs and profit margins. To have a shear resistant, 10w40 for gears, requires a real synthetic base stock using 100% Poly-alpha-Olefin, and the best of additives to fullfill a oil's many duties. This includes keeping the motor clean, and preventing corrosion. The third reason we change our oil is to keep it clean. Most oil filters (Fram, OEM etc) are very poorly made and don't keep our oil clean. They only clean 25-30 microns due to their cheap design. Picture a river of oil trying to get through a paper filter. It will find the path of least resistance until that path is blocked. Then the bypass valve will open, and the filter is useless. Using Amsoil's Bypass filter system, the oil is clean 99% up to 2microns, and it even cleans .5 microns at smaller percentage. Particles below 5microns cause motor wear, because they fit in the tight motor clearances. Truck drivers change their Amsoil every 100 000km or more with oil analysis, which proves the oil is stable, and still performing up to standards. Amsoil warrenties their oils for extended drain intervals up to 56 000km or 1 year using their series 2000 0w30 motor oil. Motorcycles have a two times OEM drain intervals using Amsoil 10w40 or 20w50. If your interested in learning about why Mobil 1, Royal purple, Castrol Syntec, and many other don't have these extended drain intervals, read these links. http://www.lubedealer.com/Irnieracing/ http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf  | |
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09-06-2007, 06:09 PM
| #79 |
| Zone Head Joined: Sep 2006 From: Beautiful Downtown Spanaway I Ride: A POS | I use Mobil 1 MC oil and Baldwin filters on my Kawi ZZR600. I change the oil at 1500 mile intervals. On my 323 GTX that puts down 240 hp/238 Tq at the wheels, I change the oil after every track day. I use M1 and Baldwin filters on it also. Touchy subject for sure. |
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