PNW Riders

beansbaxter · 10-21-2005, 01:27 AM

Here is an article about motorcycle oil versus automotive oil. Are people paying more for motorcycle oil just because of the name?

http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm

Johnny-B · 10-21-2005, 01:48 AM

Everything I've been told and everything I've read said as long as it meets the same specs with the whole SJ/SH or whatever, then it's all good. I haven't had a problem so far and most importantly, I was able to afford a 'burger on the way home with the saved $$$

Gixxer1k04 · 10-21-2005, 08:08 AM

And you are just now figuring this out???

Long Long LONG time ago, I used to run expensive "motorcycle" oil in my bikes... but then I read many chemical analysis/comparison reports about the whole thing and saw the light!

These days, I just run car oil and change it frequently.

strangerin · 10-21-2005, 02:32 PM

Only "a burger" I'd have full meal deal, of course one of my MC almost couldn't be damaged-other haven't ridden more than .5 mi.
But , yes couln't see that $$$ made for MC oil when most doesn't even have a rating. SG, SJ...

Attn: BEANS you should make this a sticky

beansbaxter · 10-21-2005, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by strangerin

Attn: BEANS you should make this a sticky

done.

Skier · 10-21-2005, 05:10 PM

That article is still a decent read. However, it failed to take into account newer API standards. You can read up on those here, but here's the short of it:

If your motorcycle has a wet clutch, chances are you should not use API SL, SJ or SM oils. Those oils have friction modifiers in them that can cause your clutch to slip. The exception is bikes that specifically state, in the owner's manual, they require one of those grades of oil.

Straight from the horse's mouth:

Higher performance engine oils such as API SJ thru SM will contain some level of friction modifier. While the friction modifier improves fuel economy, it is not compatible with wet clutches used on motorcycles. The friction modifier causes the wet clutch to slip. This is especially true if the motorcycle manufacturer recommends using only engine oils carrying API SF or SG Service Categories.
API recommends following the Original Equipment Manufacturer's (OEMs) oil recommendations. Typically an API SJ through SM engine oil would include some friction modifier. Only if the OEM indicates that higher performance engine oils such as API SJ, API SL and API SM it is possible to use these engine oils in these motorcycles.

Regards,
Dennis L. Bachelder
American Petroleum Institute
1220 L Street NW
Washington DC 20005 USA

Think before you buy. Is saving $10 on an oil change now worth spending an afternoon putting in another $100 in parts?

Speed_Demon · 10-21-2005, 05:59 PM

I run cheap oil but change it very often. I would rather change my oil three times more often than run the expensive stuff. As far as the friction modifiers go I accidentally put some in my bike but never had any clutch slipage, even at the drag strip. Don't use synthetic oil in a bike that is still being broken in because the rings won't seat, and don't use it in a high mileage motor because non-synthetic oils make the old seals swell and seal better.

That's my .02

Malfeas · 10-30-2005, 04:50 PM

I found another article with more up todate information. You would be surprised how oil standards/ratings have changed in the past 15 years.

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

I plan on switching to Rotella synthetic (a diesel oil) after my box of GTX gets used up. This is a cheap oil with high shearing properties, exactly what a motorcycle needs. Skip to the lower half of the article if you are not interested in learning.

genisx1 · 10-30-2005, 05:14 PM

Rotella rocks!!
I've just started using it in my FZR with no negative affects (It's not like I didn't know about it, just hadn't tried it till now).
Chevron makes a comparable product in their Delo 400 series.
I'll still use Kendall over either one of those though (when I can get it) - they have a decent 15-40 that my motor seems to like

dano · 11-02-2005, 04:10 AM

Mobil 1 15w/50 (red cap).

Gixxer1k04 · 11-02-2005, 08:20 AM

As for wet clutches... it's easy, just get the oils that are not labeled as friction reducing on the the little circle label. 10-40 pretty much never has it.

Johnny-B · 11-02-2005, 03:28 PM

I just one tablespoon of sand for every cup of water. The sand adds some thickness and color. My bikes run great!

Jafar · 12-06-2005, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Skier

That article is still a decent read. However, it failed to take into account newer API standards. You can read up on those here, but here's the short of it:

If your motorcycle has a wet clutch, chances are you should not use API SL, SJ or SM oils. Those oils have friction modifiers in them that can cause your clutch to slip. The exception is bikes that specifically state, in the owner's manual, they require one of those grades of oil.

Straight from the horse's mouth:

Think before you buy. Is saving $10 on an oil change now worth spending an afternoon putting in another $100 in parts?

i've found no evidence of slippage in the oil i run.

the oil says:
Recommended where the following are
required:
API SJ/SH/SG/SF/CF-4/CE/CD/CC

and i've never had a problem with slippage. its a full-synth and i put it in after about 2400miles. a friend of mine has been using it for years on his FJR and never had a clutch problem. over 75k on his FJR with the same clutch.

bubba_zenetti · 12-07-2005, 09:06 PM

i have to add my .02 cents to this thread.

being a rider for a bit over 27 years and having been a motorcycle tech for 23 of those years i have put car oil in ever single bike i owned even till this very day.

i have had bike see upwrads of 60k on the clock with castrol gtx, i have had one honda cb650sc see a bit over 100k on its clock using car oil.

not one bike ever seen a clutch failure from any of the oil i used. most of those oils contained some sort of friction modifiers. any clutch failures on my bikes were due to pure abuse on my own part.

to this very day i now run shell rotella t synthetic which carries an api rating of cl4-plus along with some of the s series ratings. my busa now has 17k on the clock of pretty hard riding. the clutch is still in perfect condition.

while it is possible for friction modifiers to ruin a clutch, it is more likely that your clutch will be worn by natural causes long before any friction modifier ruins it.

bikefoster · 12-07-2005, 10:13 PM

There's a guy on 1000rr.net page .Scootr He is a oil tester and formulatior. He Does'nt work for any oil company, hes got over 20 years in the field and says mobil 1 15w 50 or 20w 50. If you send him a sample of your oil he can tell many things about your motor. I've talked and argued with him many times. The man is a oil god . Mobil it is. Look it up.He can list the chemical name and precentage of all 88 elements mobil or any other oil is made up of.Search oil test on 1000rr.net. good stuff

Jafar · 12-07-2005, 10:30 PM

yup, the oil i use is full-synth car oil, too.

CB 900 F'er · 12-08-2005, 06:24 PM

These are highlights from a article I found about the differences in car/moto oil. Yes it's dated but is still revelant.

Since the introduction of catalytic converters in automobiles, the best anti-wear agents have been limited by law to the amount that can be used in automotive oils, but are present in greater concentration in motorcycle oils."

"Fact - Phosphorous deteriorates the catalyst in converters and is therefore restricted to a very small percentage in automotive oils. Phosphorous is also an essential element in one of the best anti-wear agents, ZDDP (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate), which is a primary component in such over-the-counter engine additives as STP Engine Treatment."

* There is no doubt that the synthetic or synthetic blends are far superior to a pure petroleum oil, Just make sure it's designed for a motorcycle.

* The absence of zinc and phosphorous from automobile oils is for the preservation of catalytic converters. These are both extreme pressure additives that are a necessary part of motorcycle oils.

The final decision is yours. You may not have a problem now and feel quite content using automotive oils. But three independent magazines and the motorcycle manufacturers are all warning us that we could experience expensive problems down the road.

As for my 23 year old bike with too many NLA (no longer available) engine parts, I'm not taking any chances for the long run, motorcycle oil only for me.

link to article

Jafar · 12-14-2005, 10:37 PM

i'll have to research ZDDP.

the other, very significant, thing to remember about the difference between a car and motorcycle is that the oil you put in a motorcycle to protect the engine is also lubrication the transmission--not so in a car. just think how much shearing happends in a tranny. thats also why your bike shifts better when you change the oil.

bubba_zenetti · 12-14-2005, 11:25 PM

the good old bike vs mc oil argument.

heres one for you guys.

i been wrenching on bikes professionaly for a bit over 23 years now. i have owned so many bikes in my past i cant even list them all on a peice of notebook paper.

every bike i owned i put good old car oil in. not one ever suffered an oil related failure. some of them saw well over 60k in mileage. almost all of them had the piss ran out of them and not one ever suffered from clutch failure that i was not the cause of.

ever single report or argument i have seen concerning car oil in bikes has not shown one real life test. well i am here to tell you that here stands over 23 years of real live testing on well over 50 bikes.

if it makes you feel good to spend $10 bucks a quart on super high grade oil then be my guest. $2.99 castrol gtx was the diet for many of my old air cooled z motors that i ran the piss out of. i currently run shell rotella t synthetic in my busa. just recently i checked my valve clearances at 20k and there was not one single sign of wear on the cam bearing faces. not bad for a bike that has the piss ran out of it on a daily basis. why i am willing to bet the thing will go at least 50,000 on this oil with no problems.

come to think of it, ill bet 50% of every bike i have ever worked on had car oil in it. i dont recall seeing any damage i can relate to use of car oil. i have seen damage from neglect and lack of oil or lack of oil changes but not one that we could point the finger at lets say a damaged bearing and say "yep that was the cause of car oil"

so to answer the question is bike oil better than car oil? maybe. maybe they do put mystery snake oil in it for the tranny. will running car oil in your bike hurt it? hell no. i thnik i am living proof of it.

beansbaxter · 12-15-2005, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by bubba_zenetti

mystery snake oil in it for the tranny

what is this??

Lucky · 12-15-2005, 07:24 AM

What would Mrs. Snake have to say about that...

snake · 12-15-2005, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Lucky

What would Mrs. Snake have to say about that...

Hmm, that is a good question.

Wrench · 12-15-2005, 09:27 PM

I run 85/90w gear oil in my 250 tranny...

Actually, all this "friction modifier" stuff doesnt mean crap to the guys with dry clutches.

snake · 12-20-2005, 09:08 AM

Check out the bobistheoilguy forum for more oil info. http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php

udco · 01-08-2006, 03:53 PM

I switched to Rotella synthetic diesel oil for my 1982 Suzuki GS850GZ air-cooled, wet clutch, inline 4-cylinder motorcycle with nearly 40K miles on the engine. I did experience a bit of seepage at first, but it was temporary. I have not noticed any difference in clutch performance or oil consumption.

I would definitely recommend it for motorcycle use--especially since it comes in 5W-40 grade, and I can buy it in gallon containers at Wal*Mart.

Rick
Spokane

Max_&_Blondie · 01-15-2006, 02:31 PM

Way back in the late 1970s when I started street riding, I used Castrol 10-40 auto oil.. worked just fine !

I use synthetic now after a long break in

badscout74 · 01-16-2006, 06:36 PM

yea i use delo 400 15-40 in my old oil cooled and it works like a charm.this oil is primarily used in diesel engines as i am a diesel tech i get my oil for free.gotta love that.

drod7733 · 01-16-2006, 07:25 PM

I have to back Bubba and Max, really why pay the big bucks when you don't have to, Castrol done me good since the 70's we tend to believe to much of what oil companys say or to people that are in there pockets, really guys in the end buy what makes you happy! peace

Nitroused383 · 01-16-2006, 07:45 PM

I used Mobil 1 15-50 red cap full synthetic. I've seen several test stating its one of the best oils. The only problem is that they stopped making it. Now the only thing similar is this gold suv 15-50 but they added some other things to it so im not sure what to run.

Wrench · 01-16-2006, 07:53 PM

Gold cap is fine. They probably didnt even change the oil composition much at all. I am rough on clutches and when I switched I didnt notice any problems.

bikefoster · 01-16-2006, 09:07 PM

my bike has cats in it just like a car. and i use gold cap it meets and exceeds all of the specs. you can change your oil twice as often and its still cheaper.

Malfeas · 01-18-2006, 09:04 AM

****Here are a few links I borrowed from another website. If you are bored and want to learn more they are a good read.

Motorcycle Motor Oil: http://www.gis.net/~manjo/motorcycle_motor_oil.htm

All About Oil: http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

Motorcycle Oils vs. Automotive Oils: http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm

Oil Filters Exposed!: http://www.twocreeks.net/toby/oil_filters/index.shtml

Multi-viscocity is the way to go: http://www.lincolnsonline.com/article105.html

What do I think about the topic?

Find a decent cheap oil, whether it be Rotella, Castrol, Valvoline, Mobile 1 - as long as it doesn't have friction modifiers, it will serve your purpose just fine. I have a hard time believing people that tell me they can feel a difference between oils. Good and often maintenance will have a much more substantial effect on the longevity of your bike than finding the "best" brand of oil.

Shell Rotella is a diesel oil. However, the properties of many diesel oils prove ideal (not necessarily superior) for motorcycle engines. For more information on this, please consult the following (from the Shell Rotella website: http://www.rotella.com/qa/answerresult.php?rowid=81)

Quote from: Rotella Website
Can heavy-duty diesel oil be used in motorcycles?

Motorcycle gasoline engines may not seem in the same league as the big displacement diesel engine under your hood, but they share some of the same lubrication requirements. So yes, in many cases, a premium heavy-duty universal oil capable of serving both diesel and gasoline engines is the best choice for your bike.
The high power-to-displacement ratio of a motorcycle engine means rod and main bearings are subjected to loads that are not normally found in passenger car engines. The valve train is also highly loaded, and requires extreme pressure boundary lubrication. The same can be said about gears in the transmission, which are normally lubricated by engine oil. Oil additives containing phosphorus protect these highly loaded extreme pressure areas (in both gasoline and diesel engines). Because diesel engines have higher loading of components, more of the phosphorus-containing additive is present than in typical passenger car oils. And with advanced catalyst systems for gasoline engines, the phosphorus content has been declining in passenger car oils.

Since many bike engines are air-cooled, and tend to be operated at high power outputs and speeds, their lubricating oil needs to be more resistant to high temperature oxidation. That’s another advantage of a premium universal oil. Another thing you want in your motorcycle is oil that has excellent viscosity control, so that with use it retains high temperature viscosity. Some multiviscosity grade passenger car oils, subjected to extreme loads, can quickly thin out. Their viscosity can drop to the next lower grade.

One last thing to consider is whether oil contains friction modifier additives. For improved fuel economy, most passenger car oils have such an additive. But the wet clutch in your bike doesn’t perform right with friction modifiers. Universal engine oils don’t have friction modifiers.

Be careful choosing diesel oils. Not all of them are universal. In addition to the API Service Category CI-4 for diesels, look for API Service Category SL.

Premium universal oils like Shell ROTELLA® T Multigrade are formulated for heavy-duty performance, and your bike engine has some heavy-duty challenges for oil. For optimum performance, be sure your oil is up to the challenge.

Skier · 01-18-2006, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Malfeas

Find a decent cheap oil, whether it be Rotella, Castrol, Valvoline, Mobile 1 - as long as it doesn't have friction modifiers, it will serve your purpose just fine.
...
Be careful choosing diesel oils. Not all of them are universal. In addition to the API Service Category CI-4 for diesels, look for API Service Category SL.

Keep in mind API SL oils have friction modifiers in them. In fact, for the last 12 months the standard has been API SM, which, as I posted earlier, has friction modifiers in it.

That said, run whatever makes you happy. Just remember to keep on the oil and filter changes!

bubba_zenetti · 01-29-2006, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Skier

Keep in mind API SL oils have friction modifiers in them. In fact, for the last 12 months the standard has been API SM, which, as I posted earlier, has friction modifiers in it.

That said, run whatever makes you happy. Just remember to keep on the oil and filter changes!

that is not entirely true. api service ratings of sl do not always contain friction modifiers. s and c classes are performance ratings not chemical standards. shell rotalla meets and exceeds api service rating sl. yet it does not contain any friction modifiers.

ted_garlock · 02-03-2006, 08:48 PM

No one even mentioned royal purple. Are they no good for bikes, or does no one have any experience with it? I'm still using dino-oil for break in, but will go synthetic ASAP.

Lynk · 02-03-2006, 10:21 PM

As for the V-Twin crowd, the name that I hear most often is Amsoil. I'm planning on giving my bike a fresh change of it, fairly soon. I've got just shy of 1500 miles on the clock, since my 1000 mile service appointment. Right now, I'm running Screamin' Eagle Syn3; however, the word is that there are bunch of better oils out there, of which Amsoil ranks among the top, and costs about $3/quart less than H-D Syn3.

ted_garlock · 03-10-2006, 11:56 PM

Amsoil is really popular on the east coast, I'd say even more popular than Royal Purple, maybe even Mobil 1. I know that the amsoil synthetic tranny fluid (manual trans) is the sheez-neezy, but not neccessary for me. As stated earlier, any good, cheap oil should perform equally. I plan on using Rotella synthetic after a solid 3000 miles (about the fourth or fifth oil change) on kawi brand dino oil.

soggydoo · 05-02-2006, 01:56 PM

all there years ive been getting a

Kolat · 05-02-2006, 02:08 PM

my bike loves shell rotalla :-)

T

WaSSted · 05-21-2006, 01:06 PM

We have a similar problem with fluids where I work. We have a special transmission fluid that has an anti slip additive in it, specifically designed for wet clutch transmissions. Customers of ours have gotten themselves into trouble by using ATF fluid in these transmissions and they always say "well it meets or exceeds the API", the owners/service manual specifically states to use the manufactures oil only. Evertime this happens it's $10,000 dollars or more in damages. The other problem we run into is people putting dot4 brake fluid in their resivor when you are only supposed to use mineral oil (it says mineral oil only on the resivor cap).

I've been using castrol GTX in my bike.


10-21-2005, 01:27 AM	#1
beansbaxter PNW Administrator Joined: Sep 2004 From: Seattle, WA Blog Entries: 8 I Ride: ZX-10R	Motorcycle oil versus automobile oil? Here is an article about motorcycle oil versus automotive oil. Are people paying more for motorcycle oil just because of the name? http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


10-21-2005, 01:48 AM	#2
Johnny-B Superbiker Joined: Apr 2005 From: SO. OREGON I Ride: when I can	Everything I've been told and everything I've read said as long as it meets the same specs with the whole SJ/SH or whatever, then it's all good. I haven't had a problem so far and most importantly, I was able to afford a 'burger on the way home with the saved $$$ __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


10-21-2005, 08:08 AM	#3
Gixxer1k04 Pit Crew Joined: Oct 2004 From: Da Valley I Ride: 04 GSXR 1000	And you are just now figuring this out??? Long Long LONG time ago, I used to run expensive "motorcycle" oil in my bikes... but then I read many chemical analysis/comparison reports about the whole thing and saw the light! These days, I just run car oil and change it frequently. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


10-21-2005, 02:32 PM	#4
strangerin Superbiker Joined: Jul 2005 From: spokane I Ride: other peoples when they let me, working on Honda VF750	Only "a burger" I'd have full meal deal, of course one of my MC almost couldn't be damaged-other haven't ridden more than .5 mi. But , yes couln't see that $$$ made for MC oil when most doesn't even have a rating. SG, SJ... Attn: BEANS you should make this a sticky __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


10-21-2005, 05:59 PM	#7
Speed_Demon MotoGP Contender Joined: Mar 2005 From: Anchorage, AK I Ride: 02 R1	I run cheap oil but change it very often. I would rather change my oil three times more often than run the expensive stuff. As far as the friction modifiers go I accidentally put some in my bike but never had any clutch slipage, even at the drag strip. Don't use synthetic oil in a bike that is still being broken in because the rings won't seat, and don't use it in a high mileage motor because non-synthetic oils make the old seals swell and seal better. That's my .02 __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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10-30-2005, 04:50 PM	#8
Malfeas Pit Crew Joined: Sep 2005 From: Seattle, WA Capitol Hill I Ride: 2000Suzuki SV650 Blue, 2004 ZRX1200R	I found another article with more up todate information. You would be surprised how oil standards/ratings have changed in the past 15 years. http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html I plan on switching to Rotella synthetic (a diesel oil) after my box of GTX gets used up. This is a cheap oil with high shearing properties, exactly what a motorcycle needs. Skip to the lower half of the article if you are not interested in learning. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by Malfeas; 10-30-2005 at 04:53 PM..


10-30-2005, 05:14 PM	#9
genisx1 Pit Crew Joined: Jul 2005 From: Riverside CA I Ride: FZR 1000	Rotella rocks!! I've just started using it in my FZR with no negative affects (It's not like I didn't know about it, just hadn't tried it till now). Chevron makes a comparable product in their Delo 400 series. I'll still use Kendall over either one of those though (when I can get it) - they have a decent 15-40 that my motor seems to like __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-02-2005, 04:10 AM	#10
dano Training Wheels Joined: Nov 2005 From: Prescott Valley, AZ. I Ride: '03 Kawasaki ZRX 1200R / '03 BMW R1150RT	Mobil 1 15w/50 (red cap). __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-02-2005, 08:20 AM	#11
Gixxer1k04 Pit Crew Joined: Oct 2004 From: Da Valley I Ride: 04 GSXR 1000	As for wet clutches... it's easy, just get the oils that are not labeled as friction reducing on the the little circle label. 10-40 pretty much never has it. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-02-2005, 03:28 PM	#12
Johnny-B Superbiker Joined: Apr 2005 From: SO. OREGON I Ride: when I can	I just one tablespoon of sand for every cup of water. The sand adds some thickness and color. My bikes run great! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-07-2005, 09:06 PM	#14
bubba_zenetti MotoGP Contender Joined: Dec 2005 From: bothell I Ride: 04 Busa, 99 Turbo Busa, 05 DRZ436SM, 80 KZ1000G	i have to add my .02 cents to this thread. being a rider for a bit over 27 years and having been a motorcycle tech for 23 of those years i have put car oil in ever single bike i owned even till this very day. i have had bike see upwrads of 60k on the clock with castrol gtx, i have had one honda cb650sc see a bit over 100k on its clock using car oil. not one bike ever seen a clutch failure from any of the oil i used. most of those oils contained some sort of friction modifiers. any clutch failures on my bikes were due to pure abuse on my own part. to this very day i now run shell rotella t synthetic which carries an api rating of cl4-plus along with some of the s series ratings. my busa now has 17k on the clock of pretty hard riding. the clutch is still in perfect condition. while it is possible for friction modifiers to ruin a clutch, it is more likely that your clutch will be worn by natural causes long before any friction modifier ruins it. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-07-2005, 10:13 PM	#15
bikefoster Training Wheels Joined: Jul 2005 From: Cashmere ,Wa I Ride: black 04 cbr1000rr	There's a guy on 1000rr.net page .Scootr He is a oil tester and formulatior. He Does'nt work for any oil company, hes got over 20 years in the field and says mobil 1 15w 50 or 20w 50. If you send him a sample of your oil he can tell many things about your motor. I've talked and argued with him many times. The man is a oil god . Mobil it is. Look it up.He can list the chemical name and precentage of all 88 elements mobil or any other oil is made up of.Search oil test on 1000rr.net. good stuff __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-07-2005, 10:30 PM	#16
Jafar Retired Admin Joined: Oct 2004 From: Chapel Hill	yup, the oil i use is full-synth car oil, too. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-08-2005, 06:24 PM	#17
CB 900 F'er Newbie Joined: Jul 2005 From: Olympia, WA I Ride: 82 Honda 900F	These are highlights from a article I found about the differences in car/moto oil. Yes it's dated but is still revelant. Since the introduction of catalytic converters in automobiles, the best anti-wear agents have been limited by law to the amount that can be used in automotive oils, but are present in greater concentration in motorcycle oils." "Fact - Phosphorous deteriorates the catalyst in converters and is therefore restricted to a very small percentage in automotive oils. Phosphorous is also an essential element in one of the best anti-wear agents, ZDDP (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate), which is a primary component in such over-the-counter engine additives as STP Engine Treatment." * There is no doubt that the synthetic or synthetic blends are far superior to a pure petroleum oil, Just make sure it's designed for a motorcycle. * The absence of zinc and phosphorous from automobile oils is for the preservation of catalytic converters. These are both extreme pressure additives that are a necessary part of motorcycle oils. The final decision is yours. You may not have a problem now and feel quite content using automotive oils. But three independent magazines and the motorcycle manufacturers are all warning us that we could experience expensive problems down the road. As for my 23 year old bike with too many NLA (no longer available) engine parts, I'm not taking any chances for the long run, motorcycle oil only for me. link to article __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-14-2005, 10:37 PM	#18
Jafar Retired Admin Joined: Oct 2004 From: Chapel Hill	i'll have to research ZDDP. the other, very significant, thing to remember about the difference between a car and motorcycle is that the oil you put in a motorcycle to protect the engine is also lubrication the transmission--not so in a car. just think how much shearing happends in a tranny. thats also why your bike shifts better when you change the oil. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by Jafar; 12-14-2005 at 11:12 PM..


12-14-2005, 11:25 PM	#19
bubba_zenetti MotoGP Contender Joined: Dec 2005 From: bothell I Ride: 04 Busa, 99 Turbo Busa, 05 DRZ436SM, 80 KZ1000G	the good old bike vs mc oil argument. heres one for you guys. i been wrenching on bikes professionaly for a bit over 23 years now. i have owned so many bikes in my past i cant even list them all on a peice of notebook paper. every bike i owned i put good old car oil in. not one ever suffered an oil related failure. some of them saw well over 60k in mileage. almost all of them had the piss ran out of them and not one ever suffered from clutch failure that i was not the cause of. ever single report or argument i have seen concerning car oil in bikes has not shown one real life test. well i am here to tell you that here stands over 23 years of real live testing on well over 50 bikes. if it makes you feel good to spend $10 bucks a quart on super high grade oil then be my guest. $2.99 castrol gtx was the diet for many of my old air cooled z motors that i ran the piss out of. i currently run shell rotella t synthetic in my busa. just recently i checked my valve clearances at 20k and there was not one single sign of wear on the cam bearing faces. not bad for a bike that has the piss ran out of it on a daily basis. why i am willing to bet the thing will go at least 50,000 on this oil with no problems. come to think of it, ill bet 50% of every bike i have ever worked on had car oil in it. i dont recall seeing any damage i can relate to use of car oil. i have seen damage from neglect and lack of oil or lack of oil changes but not one that we could point the finger at lets say a damaged bearing and say "yep that was the cause of car oil" so to answer the question is bike oil better than car oil? maybe. maybe they do put mystery snake oil in it for the tranny. will running car oil in your bike hurt it? hell no. i thnik i am living proof of it. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-15-2005, 07:24 AM	#21
Lucky The $75,000 Rider Joined: Mar 2005 From: Pullman I Ride: The dark chariot fueled by the souls of the damned.	What would Mrs. Snake have to say about that... __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-15-2005, 09:27 PM	#23
Wrench Zone Head Joined: Feb 2005 From: Pasco	I run 85/90w gear oil in my 250 tranny... Actually, all this "friction modifier" stuff doesnt mean crap to the guys with dry clutches. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-20-2005, 09:08 AM	#24
snake Paralized with excitement Joined: May 2005 From: Spokane I Ride: GSX-R's	Check out the bobistheoilguy forum for more oil info. http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


01-08-2006, 03:53 PM	#25
udco Newbie Joined: Jul 2005 From: Spokane I Ride: '82 Suzuki GS850GZ	I switched to Rotella synthetic diesel oil for my 1982 Suzuki GS850GZ air-cooled, wet clutch, inline 4-cylinder motorcycle with nearly 40K miles on the engine. I did experience a bit of seepage at first, but it was temporary. I have not noticed any difference in clutch performance or oil consumption. I would definitely recommend it for motorcycle use--especially since it comes in 5W-40 grade, and I can buy it in gallon containers at WalMart. Rick Spokane __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter*


01-15-2006, 02:31 PM	#26
Max_&_Blondie Superbiker Joined: Apr 2005 From: Lacey I Ride: Yamaha V-Max, & Blondie	Way back in the late 1970s when I started street riding, I used Castrol 10-40 auto oil.. worked just fine ! I use synthetic now after a long break in __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


01-16-2006, 06:36 PM	#27
badscout74 Endorsed Joined: Jan 2006 From: spokane,washington I Ride: 1990 GSXR-750	yea i use delo 400 15-40 in my old oil cooled and it works like a charm.this oil is primarily used in diesel engines as i am a diesel tech i get my oil for free.gotta love that. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


01-16-2006, 07:25 PM	#28
drod7733 Streetfighter Joined: Jul 2005 From: Sunnyside,wa I Ride: VMAX, CBR900RR, and wild women	I have to back Bubba and Max, really why pay the big bucks when you don't have to, Castrol done me good since the 70's we tend to believe to much of what oil companys say or to people that are in there pockets, really guys in the end buy what makes you happy! peace __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


01-16-2006, 07:45 PM	#29
Nitroused383 WMRRA Qualifier Joined: Aug 2005 From: Spokane, Washington I Ride: Ring ding	I used Mobil 1 15-50 red cap full synthetic. I've seen several test stating its one of the best oils. The only problem is that they stopped making it. Now the only thing similar is this gold suv 15-50 but they added some other things to it so im not sure what to run. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


01-16-2006, 07:53 PM	#30
Wrench Zone Head Joined: Feb 2005 From: Pasco	Gold cap is fine. They probably didnt even change the oil composition much at all. I am rough on clutches and when I switched I didnt notice any problems. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


01-16-2006, 09:07 PM	#31
bikefoster Training Wheels Joined: Jul 2005 From: Cashmere ,Wa I Ride: black 04 cbr1000rr	my bike has cats in it just like a car. and i use gold cap it meets and exceeds all of the specs. you can change your oil twice as often and its still cheaper. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


01-18-2006, 09:04 AM	#32
Malfeas Pit Crew Joined: Sep 2005 From: Seattle, WA Capitol Hill I Ride: 2000Suzuki SV650 Blue, 2004 ZRX1200R	**Here are a few links I borrowed from another website. If you are bored and want to learn more they are a good read. Motorcycle Motor Oil: http://www.gis.net/~manjo/motorcycle_motor_oil.htm All About Oil: http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html Motorcycle Oils vs. Automotive Oils: http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm Oil Filters Exposed!: http://www.twocreeks.net/toby/oil_filters/index.shtml Multi-viscocity is the way to go: http://www.lincolnsonline.com/article105.html What do I think about the topic? Find a decent cheap oil, whether it be Rotella, Castrol, Valvoline, Mobile 1 - as long as it doesn't have friction modifiers, it will serve your purpose just fine. I have a hard time believing people that tell me they can feel a difference between oils. Good and often maintenance will have a much more substantial effect on the longevity of your bike than finding the "best" brand of oil. Shell Rotella is a diesel oil. However, the properties of many diesel oils prove ideal (not necessarily superior) for motorcycle engines. For more information on this, please consult the following (from the Shell Rotella website: http://www.rotella.com/qa/answerresult.php?rowid=81) Quote from: Rotella Website Can heavy-duty diesel oil be used in motorcycles? Motorcycle gasoline engines may not seem in the same league as the big displacement diesel engine under your hood, but they share some of the same lubrication requirements. So yes, in many cases, a premium heavy-duty universal oil capable of serving both diesel and gasoline engines is the best choice for your bike. The high power-to-displacement ratio of a motorcycle engine means rod and main bearings are subjected to loads that are not normally found in passenger car engines. The valve train is also highly loaded, and requires extreme pressure boundary lubrication. The same can be said about gears in the transmission, which are normally lubricated by engine oil. Oil additives containing phosphorus protect these highly loaded extreme pressure areas (in both gasoline and diesel engines). Because diesel engines have higher loading of components, more of the phosphorus-containing additive is present than in typical passenger car oils. And with advanced catalyst systems for gasoline engines, the phosphorus content has been declining in passenger car oils. Since many bike engines are air-cooled, and tend to be operated at high power outputs and speeds, their lubricating oil needs to be more resistant to high temperature oxidation. That’s another advantage of a premium universal oil. Another thing you want in your motorcycle is oil that has excellent viscosity control, so that with use it retains high temperature viscosity. Some multiviscosity grade passenger car oils, subjected to extreme loads, can quickly thin out. Their viscosity can drop to the next lower grade. One last thing to consider is whether oil contains friction modifier additives. For improved fuel economy, most passenger car oils have such an additive. But the wet clutch in your bike doesn’t perform right with friction modifiers. Universal engine oils don’t have friction modifiers. Be careful choosing diesel oils. Not all of them are universal. In addition to the API Service Category CI-4 for diesels, look for API Service Category SL. Premium universal oils like Shell ROTELLA® T Multigrade are formulated for heavy-duty performance, and your bike engine has some heavy-duty challenges for oil. For optimum performance, be sure your oil is up to the challenge. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter**


02-03-2006, 08:48 PM	#35
ted_garlock ted sux Joined: Jan 2006 From: Methlehem Blog Entries: 1 I Ride: A wicked bitchin 04 zx10R! Named Mustache	No one even mentioned royal purple. Are they no good for bikes, or does no one have any experience with it? I'm still using dino-oil for break in, but will go synthetic ASAP. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


02-03-2006, 10:21 PM	#36
Lynk Superbiker Joined: Dec 2005 From: Bellevue, WA I Ride: a 2006 H-D XL1200C, 2005 Suzuki DRZ-400SM, 1997 Kawa Ninja 500R, and 2003 Yamaha YZF-R6 (racebike).	As for the V-Twin crowd, the name that I hear most often is Amsoil. I'm planning on giving my bike a fresh change of it, fairly soon. I've got just shy of 1500 miles on the clock, since my 1000 mile service appointment. Right now, I'm running Screamin' Eagle Syn3; however, the word is that there are bunch of better oils out there, of which Amsoil ranks among the top, and costs about $3/quart less than H-D Syn3. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


03-10-2006, 11:56 PM	#37
ted_garlock ted sux Joined: Jan 2006 From: Methlehem Blog Entries: 1 I Ride: A wicked bitchin 04 zx10R! Named Mustache	Amsoil is really popular on the east coast, I'd say even more popular than Royal Purple, maybe even Mobil 1. I know that the amsoil synthetic tranny fluid (manual trans) is the sheez-neezy, but not neccessary for me. As stated earlier, any good, cheap oil should perform equally. I plan on using Rotella synthetic after a solid 3000 miles (about the fourth or fifth oil change) on kawi brand dino oil. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-02-2006, 01:56 PM	#38
soggydoo MotoGP Contender Joined: Mar 2006 From: medford, oregon I Ride: there for I am	all there years ive been getting a __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-02-2006, 02:08 PM	#39
Kolat emw2k9 beer pong champions Joined: May 2005 From: Poserville I Ride: Wheelies	my bike loves shell rotalla :-) T __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-21-2006, 01:06 PM	#40
WaSSted Kaptain Kirk Joined: Oct 2004 From: Hermiston Oregon I Ride: 2005 Yamaha R1, 2006 Yamaha YZ250	We have a similar problem with fluids where I work. We have a special transmission fluid that has an anti slip additive in it, specifically designed for wet clutch transmissions. Customers of ours have gotten themselves into trouble by using ATF fluid in these transmissions and they always say "well it meets or exceeds the API", the owners/service manual specifically states to use the manufactures oil only. Evertime this happens it's $10,000 dollars or more in damages. The other problem we run into is people putting dot4 brake fluid in their resivor when you are only supposed to use mineral oil (it says mineral oil only on the resivor cap). I've been using castrol GTX in my bike. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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