ABS or no ABS?

Dumbass · 02-22-2012, 03:14 PM

Okay girls, thanks for answering my question concerning what to wear on my next big tour. I do like the kilt and a tank top idea. Now for something more serious. Are ABS brakes life savers most of the time, part of the time or none of the time?

Woody97124 · 02-22-2012, 03:20 PM

im gunna say part of the time or most of the time. We are not as good of riders as rossi and im sure abs has saved a few people from wrecks here and their.

i dont have it but i wouldnt mind it. as long as it is possible to turn off whenever

RedKat600 · 02-22-2012, 03:22 PM

All the articles I have read say that 85% of the time on the street, it will never even come on. Unless you ride the street like the track, then it may come on more. Given that, I would say it will save your ass in a panic brake or hurry up and stop situation while still giving the haters "full control" of their bike.

koorbloh · 02-22-2012, 03:23 PM

on pavement, I can see no reason not to have it.

(why would you only ride pavement though?)

TheRock11 · 02-22-2012, 03:24 PM

None! Do you have fingers? If so then use the right pressure for the right situation. More money you get to keep in your pocket without it.

Bluuu · 02-22-2012, 03:58 PM

Having fun troll?

Mechanic · 02-22-2012, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Dumbass

Are ABS brakes life savers most of the time, part of the time or none of the time?

Are seat belts life savers most of the time, part of the time or none of the time?
Are helmets life savers most of the time, part of the time or none of the time?

Can you answer these questions - probably not.

Instead ask yourself if they reduce your risk of injury or death. Does that help?

IMHO, ABS every time, no exceptions. As a $1000 option it's a no brainer. $500 and it's a absof*ckinlut bargain.
Standard equipment? I'll vote for this.

Dardas · 02-22-2012, 04:59 PM

I can only speak from my personal experience and skill level. Having said that...

I don't currently own a bike with ABS, but my next bike is definitely going to have that feature.

The last 2 non-track offs I had were due to a combination of a need for sudden breaking, and the road surface being compromised with oil/diesel/other slippery substance. In each case, the front of the bike folded before I had a chance to release the break, and I found myself sat on my arse in the middle of the street.

Now, someone with better skills and quicker reactions than I would probably be able to moderate their breaking accordingly, but I've been riding both street and track for many years, I truly believe my skills are at least average.

Search using "Motorcycle ABS" on YouTube to see some interesting comparisons.

I can see both sides of the ABS argument, but I have to say that I'm now firmly set up in the Pro-ABS camp.

Hope this thread takes off. I'd be interested in hearing opposing views and the reasons behind them.

KevinD · 02-22-2012, 05:27 PM

Personally, I think it's like ABS on a car: a band-aid. It's there to allow riders/drivers that do not know how to properly brake to have a chance in a hazardous stopping situation. The first few times I drove a car with ABS, I damn near had real problems because the ABS was negating my efforts.
Now, I've not ridden a bike with ABS, and I'm not an expert rider, but I do not want something fighting me when I try to control my braking.
Besides, if you get used to riding with ABS, you better hope all of the bikes you ride have ABS, or you may find your ass in a crack if you're on a non-ABS bike, after learning to ride an ABS bike, and suddenly find yourself in an emergency braking situation.

KevinD

Veloc · 02-22-2012, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by KevinD

Personally, I think it's like ABS on a car: a band-aid. It's there to allow riders/drivers that do not know how to properly brake to have a chance in a hazardous stopping situation. The first few times I drove a car with ABS, I damn near had real problems because the ABS was negating my efforts.
Now, I've not ridden a bike with ABS, and I'm not an expert rider, but I do not want something fighting me when I try to control my braking.
Besides, if you get used to riding with ABS, you better hope all of the bikes you ride have ABS, or you may find your ass in a crack if you're on a non-ABS bike, after learning to ride an ABS bike, and suddenly find yourself in an emergency braking situation.

KevinD

There is only one car I have ever driven that has had useful ABS, and that car is mine. No other vehicle out there that I've ever driven has had ABS that didn't cause more of a hazard than the road conditions (my VR-4 nearly killed me three times). ABS in a car is designed to keep the front wheels turning so that the car will remain steerable, not help it stop.

This very strong anti-ABS sentiment I've built up has made it difficult for me to accept ABS on a bike. Knowing how shitty it is to feel that ABS pulse, knowing that I actually had some braking power left over**, and knowing that I now need to run-off are hard issues to break past. However, I actually want a bike with ABS someday, at least to try for a while. I'm especially interested in having it on a bike I intend to use as a foul-weather commuter and 2-up transport. I'd happily give up endos on a bike I'm using for more sane riding.

** No, ABS does NOT kick in "only after the wheel has stopped". It kicks in when the ECU calculates that it thinks the wheel is about to stop (pre-skid). Spend some time threshold braking with the ABS disabled, then try it again with ABS. You've got stopping power left on the table. Granted, that remaining grip can only really be tapped by experienced people, but it's still there.

Rojo · 02-22-2012, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by KevinD

Personally, I think it's like ABS on a car: a band-aid. It's there to allow riders/drivers that do not know how to properly brake to have a chance in a hazardous stopping situation. The first few times I drove a car with ABS, I damn near had real problems because the ABS was negating my efforts. Now, I've not ridden a bike with ABS, and I'm not an expert rider, but I do not want something fighting me when I try to control my braking.
Besides, if you get used to riding with ABS, you better hope all of the bikes you ride have ABS, or you may find your ass in a crack if you're on a non-ABS bike, after learning to ride an ABS bike, and suddenly find yourself in an emergency braking situation.

These are basically my sentiments exactly. I am also more of a purist though and don't like electronic or computer aided correction systems. Its kinda hard to become a better driver or rider if every time you make a boo boo some electronic device or computer corrects it for you.

21budd · 02-22-2012, 06:31 PM

I am not an what you call an experienced rider and one time last summer while bringing a rental bike back over the North Cascades the ABS saved me from skidding into oncoming traffic. Now if I was a more experienced rider it likely would not have been a dangerous situation but I'm not and have no boo boos because of ABS.

nakedrider · 02-22-2012, 06:33 PM

I've only had one time that I wish I had of had ABS, I don't remember the accident, but I'm told I almost pulled that stoppie off. It wasn't intentional, probably a "Survival Reaction" that I hadn't tamed. On a lighter note, I fucking stuck the landing. (with my head)

blueline15 · 02-22-2012, 06:36 PM

Neither my truck nor my bike has ABS. We average 280" of snowfall a year. ABS is not a necessity, for the same reasons KevinD said.

Lone Rider · 02-22-2012, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Dumbass

Okay girls, thanks for answering my question concerning what to wear on my next big tour. I do like the kilt and a tank top idea. Now for something more serious. Are ABS brakes life savers most of the time, part of the time or none of the time?

Honestly, saving the life of a Oregonian Troll is a waste, so no brakes is my choice!

LostTheFront · 02-22-2012, 06:39 PM

Dang people, how often you going through brake pads on your cars? To think that someone could be activating the ABS on a car or bike more than just a panic situation seems a recipe for rear-enders, throwing passengers around, and sending a wallet/cell phone/beverage onto the floor. ABS is not a training tool, it's simply there to intervene if some numbnut tries to exceed available traction in a straight line or mild curve, or PANIC. Snow would be one exception, but most of us don't ride bikes in the snow. Rear tires of trucks would be another exception.

I'd love if my bike was capable of saving just one lowside during a 10-20 year period, and ABS has that potential. If we're relying on ABS, or even activating ABS regularly then we should re-eval our riding skills. A lot of bikes will loft the rear just fine with front brake, so ABS shouldn't intervene unless there is poor traction.

So my final answer: ABS brakes are never life savers, except for the rare time that they are. Is it worth it?

ChrisMag · 02-22-2012, 06:41 PM

ABS from the 80's is not the same as the systems today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6sTbgJgA0E

dragracer1951 · 02-22-2012, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Dumbass

Okay girls, thanks for answering my question concerning what to wear on my next big tour. I do like the kilt and a tank top idea. Now for something more serious. Are ABS brakes life savers most of the time, part of the time or none of the time?

IP check is in progress.
I can feel the ban hammer coming soon.

Mechanic · 02-22-2012, 06:50 PM

The most frightening thing about ABS is the lack of understanding and knowledge about how it works.
It never ceases to amaze me, the amount of misinformed and prejudicial opinions that get spouted by people who simply don't know better and won't be persuaded otherwise.

"Knowing how shitty it is to feel that ABS pulse, knowing that I actually had some braking power left over**, and knowing that I now need to run-off are hard issues to break past."

When you feel that "shitty pulsing" It's because you've exceeded the traction available, and would, without ABS, be skidding. In a front wheel skid you have no directional control, and less braking force than a wheel that is still turning. You had NO braking power left over. You'd already blown it!
Maybe you folks haven't been reading all the road tests by experienced riders in recent years, but to a man, they all admit that ABS can outperform them every time in real world conditions, and offers a very significant safety buffer in many situations.

Take some time and do the research. If you don't believe it, you probably still think the World is flat.

Bluuu · 02-22-2012, 07:10 PM

Forget rehashing abs. Just tell me something important...

like how to refill my blinker fluid.


02-22-2012, 03:14 PM	#1
Dumbass Newbie Joined: Feb 2012 From: Corvallis	ABS or no ABS? Okay girls, thanks for answering my question concerning what to wear on my next big tour. I do like the kilt and a tank top idea. Now for something more serious. Are ABS brakes life savers most of the time, part of the time or none of the time? __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


02-22-2012, 03:20 PM	#2
Woody97124 Licensed Joined: Apr 2011 From: Hillsboro, OR I Ride: 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 650R	im gunna say part of the time or most of the time. We are not as good of riders as rossi and im sure abs has saved a few people from wrecks here and their. i dont have it but i wouldnt mind it. as long as it is possible to turn off whenever __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


02-22-2012, 03:22 PM	#3
RedKat600 Railer Joined: May 2011 From: LaCenter, WA I Ride: 2003 Copper SV1K	All the articles I have read say that 85% of the time on the street, it will never even come on. Unless you ride the street like the track, then it may come on more. Given that, I would say it will save your ass in a panic brake or hurry up and stop situation while still giving the haters "full control" of their bike. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


02-22-2012, 03:23 PM	#4
koorbloh Je Fa Fa Joined: Mar 2007 From: Monroe-mish, WA Blog Entries: 5 I Ride: 06 DR650, 74 XL350, 70-ish GT80, 78 CB400	on pavement, I can see no reason not to have it. (why would you only ride pavement though?) __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


02-22-2012, 03:24 PM	#5
TheRock11 Pit Crew Joined: Jan 2011 From: Kirkland, Washington I Ride: '05 R6 Scooty-Puff, Sr.	None! Do you have fingers? If so then use the right pressure for the right situation. More money you get to keep in your pocket without it. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


02-22-2012, 03:58 PM	#6
Bluuu Señor verde Joined: Mar 2011 From: Kirkland I Ride: behind the girls.	Having fun troll? __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


02-22-2012, 04:59 PM	#8
Dardas Permit Joined: Apr 2007 From: Seattle, WA / Dublin, Ireland I Ride: Yamaha R1, Ducati S2R, Star Stratoliner, Norton 850 Commando, Suzuki 250	I can only speak from my personal experience and skill level. Having said that... I don't currently own a bike with ABS, but my next bike is definitely going to have that feature. The last 2 non-track offs I had were due to a combination of a need for sudden breaking, and the road surface being compromised with oil/diesel/other slippery substance. In each case, the front of the bike folded before I had a chance to release the break, and I found myself sat on my arse in the middle of the street. Now, someone with better skills and quicker reactions than I would probably be able to moderate their breaking accordingly, but I've been riding both street and track for many years, I truly believe my skills are at least average. Search using "Motorcycle ABS" on YouTube to see some interesting comparisons. I can see both sides of the ABS argument, but I have to say that I'm now firmly set up in the Pro-ABS camp. Hope this thread takes off. I'd be interested in hearing opposing views and the reasons behind them. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


02-22-2012, 05:27 PM	#9
KevinD Joined: Mar 2009 From: Spokane Valley I Ride: Suzuki Boulevard C90, Honda CM250C, My Wife's Scooter	Personally, I think it's like ABS on a car: a band-aid. It's there to allow riders/drivers that do not know how to properly brake to have a chance in a hazardous stopping situation. The first few times I drove a car with ABS, I damn near had real problems because the ABS was negating my efforts. Now, I've not ridden a bike with ABS, and I'm not an expert rider, but I do not want something fighting me when I try to control my braking. Besides, if you get used to riding with ABS, you better hope all of the bikes you ride have ABS, or you may find your ass in a crack if you're on a non-ABS bike, after learning to ride an ABS bike, and suddenly find yourself in an emergency braking situation. KevinD __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


02-22-2012, 06:31 PM	#12
21budd Newbie Joined: Feb 2012 From: Olympia, Wa	Saved My Ass I am not an what you call an experienced rider and one time last summer while bringing a rental bike back over the North Cascades the ABS saved me from skidding into oncoming traffic. Now if I was a more experienced rider it likely would not have been a dangerous situation but I'm not and have no boo boos because of ABS. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


02-22-2012, 06:33 PM	#13
nakedrider Shredder Joined: Aug 2009 From: Parts unknown I Ride: 08 R1	I've only had one time that I wish I had of had ABS, I don't remember the accident, but I'm told I almost pulled that stoppie off. It wasn't intentional, probably a "Survival Reaction" that I hadn't tamed. On a lighter note, I fucking stuck the landing. (with my head) __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


02-22-2012, 06:36 PM	#14
blueline15 Novice Racer Joined: Aug 2008 From: Where the snow falls Blog Entries: 3 I Ride: hide yo' keys, hide yo' bikes	Neither my truck nor my bike has ABS. We average 280" of snowfall a year. ABS is not a necessity, for the same reasons KevinD said. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


02-22-2012, 06:39 PM	#16
LostTheFront Licensed Joined: Feb 2009 From: Bellingham, WA I Ride: 2007 CBR1000RR	Dang people, how often you going through brake pads on your cars? To think that someone could be activating the ABS on a car or bike more than just a panic situation seems a recipe for rear-enders, throwing passengers around, and sending a wallet/cell phone/beverage onto the floor. ABS is not a training tool, it's simply there to intervene if some numbnut tries to exceed available traction in a straight line or mild curve, or PANIC. Snow would be one exception, but most of us don't ride bikes in the snow. Rear tires of trucks would be another exception. I'd love if my bike was capable of saving just one lowside during a 10-20 year period, and ABS has that potential. If we're relying on ABS, or even activating ABS regularly then we should re-eval our riding skills. A lot of bikes will loft the rear just fine with front brake, so ABS shouldn't intervene unless there is poor traction. So my final answer: ABS brakes are never life savers, except for the rare time that they are. Is it worth it? __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


02-22-2012, 06:50 PM	#19
Mechanic Permit Joined: Jul 2011 From: PoCo, BC I Ride: GSXRs and Hondas and Yamahas and Kawasakis, Track, Sport, Dirt and Touring	The most frightening thing about ABS is the lack of understanding and knowledge about how it works. It never ceases to amaze me, the amount of misinformed and prejudicial opinions that get spouted by people who simply don't know better and won't be persuaded otherwise. "Knowing how shitty it is to feel that ABS pulse, knowing that I actually had some braking power left over, and knowing that I now need to run-off are hard issues to break past." When you feel that "shitty pulsing" It's because you've exceeded the traction available, and would, without ABS, be skidding. In a front wheel skid you have no directional control, and less braking force than a wheel that is still turning. You had NO braking power left over. You'd already blown it! Maybe you folks haven't been reading all the road tests by experienced riders in recent years, but to a man, they all admit that ABS can outperform them every time in real world conditions, and offers a very significant safety buffer in many situations. Take some time and do the research. If you don't believe it, you probably still think the World is flat. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


02-22-2012, 07:10 PM	#20
Bluuu Señor verde Joined: Mar 2011 From: Kirkland I Ride: behind the girls.	Forget rehashing abs. Just tell me something important... like how to refill my blinker fluid. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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