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Old 05-09-2012, 08:44 PM   #41
Peg Dragger
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Joined: Jul 2010
From: Nehalem, Or

I Ride: cause I obey the voices in my head
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Tromatic View Post
Tough shit, that was no "accident". At least he didn't take anyone with him.
Maybe he didn't take 'anyone', with him, but I bet he took

$60,000 worth of taxpayer patrol car with him + maybe $12,000 worth of taxpayer initial emergency transport and hospital bills with him + probably $8,000 worth of taxpayer funded investigation with him + maybe $13,000 worth of taxpayer recuperation & rehab funds with him + maybe $9,000 worth of taxpayer temporary personel replacement funds with him, etc.

So what is that so far, about $120,000 worth of taxpayer money and that doesn't include the very real and probable big dollar taxpayer items of, + 'the sky is the limit' disability claim and the adjoining lawyer fees, etc.

All for what, a $280.00 private party speeding ticket or at best a $1000.00 eluding ticket.

We all got screwed on that one, no-matter how you slice it. Use better judgement, both the runner and the cop. The problem is the cop's bad judgment cost us all, big time.

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Old 05-09-2012, 09:21 PM   #42
Superbiker
varment's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
From: Tri-city, Oregon
Blog Entries: 1

I Ride: the Kessle run in 11 parsecs...
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Norainy View Post
The problem is the cop's bad judgment cost us all, big time.
The car is 100% the cops responsibility, he should know better and probably should have ended the chase but none of us were there were we? No one can say with certainty that the conditions warranted the chase to be called off until it was too late. that's a bit like saying why the guy ran in the first place...

I've passed a lot of cops and they never chased me off a 20 foot cliff, never pulled someone over and then drove off a 20 foot cliff, and never ordered someone to flee and drive off a 20 foot cliff....

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Old 05-09-2012, 09:40 PM   #43
Shredder
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Joined: May 2009
From: sammamish, wa

I Ride: 2006 Suzuki GSXR 600; 2007 Yamaha FZ1 (the Mrs.'s bike)
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Norainy View Post
The problem is the cop's bad judgment cost us all, big time.
I just can't get my head around these arguments. The trooper had reason to pull the rider over for speeding. The rider could have just stopped and assuming that he wasn't drunk, or had just stolen the bike, or had outstanding warrants, or some other issue that would have gotten him locked up. It may have cost him a warning or at most a couple hundred bucks. The rider, who was old enough to know better, chose option "B". He was the one who initiated the chase, not the trooper.

Unfortunately for the rider, where law enforcement has probable cause to make a stop and speeding = probable cause, law enforcement is authorized to give chase. The exception to this is when the chase is likely more dangerous than the possibility that the rider was a dangerous felon. Given their location, the chance that the chase would be a greater hazard was low. Thus, it was within the trooper's policy to try to get him to stop.

So the trooper, who did not initiate the chase and who was simply doing his job, is at fault? It was the trooper who's bad judgment cost the taxpayers? Riiight. If a cop, with probable cause, tries to make a stop and the guy runs, the cop should let him go no matter what? That's just stupid.

What if the rider was a speeding driver who happened to be bombed out of his mind. The cops should just let him go if he tried to take off? So what if he might later plow into and kill one of us or a loved one. Not fair, ok here's another one.

What if the speeding rider had just fled a crime scene? Let's say he just robbed someone, shot someone, or something similarly nasty. The cops should just let him go?

What if the rider, after being forced to read this thread, lost his mind and decided that the only way to deal with his anger was to kill someone? Let's say that he was so unhinged that he was speeding to the home of his intended victim (not me). The trooper's got to give him a pass? If that happened, we'd all be bitching about the cop not doing his job. Basically, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

The fact is the trooper had no way of knowing what this guy was all about. It was within his policy and common sense given the location to try to get the guy to stop. No doubt the trooper target fixated and given some of the comments about riders in general by the WSP, it is easy to point the finger. But, this particular trooper didn't cause the crash. It sucks that rider died and a family is now grieving, but this one started and ended with the rider.

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Last edited by cletus; 05-09-2012 at 09:44 PM..
 
Old 05-09-2012, 09:56 PM   #44
Knee Dragger
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Joined: Apr 2011
From: Portland

I Ride: Yamaha Warrior
I'm just going to assume that anyone who saw the ass end of their bike going down the street would be mighty pissed if the cops told them a few hours later that they saw it speeding but decided not to chase.

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Old 05-09-2012, 10:02 PM   #45
Peg Dragger
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Joined: Jul 2010
From: Nehalem, Or

I Ride: cause I obey the voices in my head
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by cletus View Post

The fact is the trooper had no way of knowing what this guy was all about.
Exactly, if the trooper did not know, then it would have been prudent to back off and not throw his car and all that taxpayer money off the edge, right?

You had so many 'what ifs', in your post that I lost count. That is a valid point that goes both ways. Maybe the ex-military rider learns that his 5 y/o child was about to be raped and he is trying to get home to save her, as he knows he can get there before the cops can. And he can't afford the time to pull over and explain. He was just speeding to begin with, but when the officer lights him up he knows that he needs to get there and not spend the time pulling over to explain.

Pretty far fetched but no more than your numerous what ifs.

If the officer did not know he was chasing a bad dude, why make us taxpayers pay such a high price for his 'what ifs'.

It basically comes down to ego, and that is something that is very hard to overcome, even if it benefits the majority, a majority of the time.

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Old 05-10-2012, 05:20 AM   #46
Endorsed
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Joined: Jun 2011
From: Stevenson, WA

I Ride: The Bench
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Norainy View Post

If the officer did not know he was chasing a bad dude, why make us taxpayers pay such a high price for his 'what ifs'.
That's why he was trying to initiate the traffic stop in the first place... there is no way to know what this guy's story is unless the trooper stops him and asks. A LEO's entire day consists of "what ifs", unfortunately with how much crap they have to deal with they usually react towards that "what if" with a higher level of force so they are prepared for the worst.

Let's all quit our arguing and get out there and ride.... just remember to stop when you see the red and blue lights.

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Old 05-10-2012, 05:33 AM   #47
Licensed
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Joined: Feb 2012
From: Selah, WA

I Ride: 2008 Ninja ZX14, 1977 Harley Superglide, Pro Street Chopper, 2006 Yamaha YZF R1
Trooper shoulda just bumped the guy off the road.

If you're stupid enough to run, take em out.

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Old 05-10-2012, 06:49 AM   #48
Knee Dragger
Wrench's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
From: West Richland

I Ride: Pitster Motard
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckincrue View Post
Trooper shoulda just bumped the guy off the road.

If you're stupid enough to run, take em out.
I have a better idea: instead of risking damaging the front end of the cop car, to the tune of a few hundred dollars in paint repair, why not just use a bullet or two that will only cost a few bucks? He could cap that rider right there and get the same results...

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Old 05-10-2012, 07:28 AM   #49
Shredder
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Joined: Aug 2011
From: Tanasbourne, OR

I Ride: '08 R6, '07 S2R 1000, '10 Ninjette #791
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Norainy View Post
Exactly, if the trooper did not know, then it would have been prudent to back off and not throw his car and all that taxpayer money off the edge, right?

You had so many 'what ifs', in your post that I lost count. That is a valid point that goes both ways. Maybe the ex-military rider learns that his 5 y/o child was about to be raped and he is trying to get home to save her, as he knows he can get there before the cops can. And he can't afford the time to pull over and explain. He was just speeding to begin with, but when the officer lights him up he knows that he needs to get there and not spend the time pulling over to explain.

Pretty far fetched but no more than your numerous what ifs.

If the officer did not know he was chasing a bad dude, why make us taxpayers pay such a high price for his 'what ifs'.

It basically comes down to ego, and that is something that is very hard to overcome, even if it benefits the majority, a majority of the time.

Stuff the "the decision to chase was a mistake on the LEO's part" BS line. That's their job. Can't just run the plate and pick the guy up later, because the plate on a stolen bike won't lead you to the suspect. Did you read the Reddit AMA from the bike thief? They don't stop for cops. This runner might not have been a thief, but all thieves run.

I agree with you about the waste of tax dollars via the destruction of a cheap cruiser filled with expensive toys (those cars aren't worth a nickel, but the electronics they're stuffed with is big coin). HOWEVER, it isn't the decision to pursue that caused the wreck - it was the LEO's inability to control his vehicle. The bike wreck was 100% the fault of the rider, while the car wreck was 100% the fault of the driver's poor wheel skills. He either out-drove his car, conditions, or himself. However, this is not a matter of "should he have chased," it's a matter of "why can't this guy control his vehicle?"

You insistence that it was the chase that caused the cop to wreck is the same specious logic that cops use to say "speed was a factor." It's no different on a race track - it's not the race that causes the wrecks, it's the racers who make mistakes (and equipment failures...but you know what I mean).

The LEO was right to chase. The rider was wrong to run. The LEO was wrong to out-run his abilities.

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Old 05-10-2012, 11:32 AM   #50
Shredder
cletus's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
From: sammamish, wa

I Ride: 2006 Suzuki GSXR 600; 2007 Yamaha FZ1 (the Mrs.'s bike)
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Norainy View Post
Exactly, if the trooper did not know, then it would have been prudent to back off and not throw his car and all that taxpayer money off the edge, right?

You had so many 'what ifs', in your post that I lost count. That is a valid point that goes both ways. Maybe the ex-military rider learns that his 5 y/o child was about to be raped and he is trying to get home to save her, as he knows he can get there before the cops can. And he can't afford the time to pull over and explain. He was just speeding to begin with, but when the officer lights him up he knows that he needs to get there and not spend the time pulling over to explain.

Pretty far fetched but no more than your numerous what ifs.

If the officer did not know he was chasing a bad dude, why make us taxpayers pay such a high price for his 'what ifs'.

It basically comes down to ego, and that is something that is very hard to overcome, even if it benefits the majority, a majority of the time.
Hereís why and I'll come clean...my wife is a cop. Events like the "what if" scenarios that I listed all happened. Itís a weird world. Your scenario is also not unlikely, but it also illustrates why it is important for the cop to make the stop.

My wife recently encountered a somewhat similar scenario. At 2:00 am - right when the bar's close - she spotted a man and woman in a car speeding through an area with a lot of DWI's on three good tires and one very loud and sparky rim. I can assure you that she didnít think, "Coo Coo Coo, I'll get you Duke Boys", but rather "crap, this guy is DWI and now I've got a shit ton of paper work to do and won't get off shift on time." Its her job, so she pulls the guy over and, go figure, he stops.

Turns out that the guy has his newborn baby in the car and the baby is in serious distress and is struggling to breathe. The guy was in full panic mode and was trying to get to the hospital. On his own, the guy could have caused a wreck costing precious time and possibly the life of the baby or some innocent third party. The area is densely populated and the guy had already run off the road and blown out his front tire.

She assessed the baby (she's also a trained paramedic) and called for aid. Initially, they called for an ambulance and were told the ETA was 10 min. Since this wasn't fast enough, they got the fire department to come within 3 min. If the babyís breathing deteriorated further - and though it is technically against their department's policy - she would have loaded them all up and run code (lights and siren) to the hospital.

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Old 05-10-2012, 01:22 PM   #51
Mr. Pickles
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Joined: May 2005
From: Spokane

I Ride: 2012 Ultra Blue Metallic Wing w Rockin' Tunes...
Both are Guilty of Stupidity!

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Old 05-10-2012, 03:18 PM   #52
Superbiker
tims007's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
From: your moms basement

I Ride: i ride bitchrider : a 2000 triumph sprint st a 99 triumph tiger and " das car"
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrench View Post
I have a better idea: instead of risking damaging the front end of the cop car, to the tune of a few hundred dollars in paint repair, why not just use a bullet or two that will only cost a few bucks? He could cap that rider right there and get the same results...
lulz

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Old 05-10-2012, 03:28 PM   #53
Railer
WaGigKPN's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: Gig Harbor, WA
Blog Entries: 1

I Ride: 2000 BRP (XR650R)
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckincrue View Post
Trooper shoulda just bumped the guy off the road.

If you're stupid enough to run, take em out.
Nissan made a commercial about doing that!

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Old 05-10-2012, 04:13 PM   #54
Peg Dragger
Norainy's Avatar
OP
 
Joined: Jul 2010
From: Nehalem, Or

I Ride: cause I obey the voices in my head
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by cletus View Post
Here’s why and I'll come clean...my wife is a cop. Events like the "what if" scenarios that I listed all happened. It’s a weird world. Your scenario is also not unlikely, but it also illustrates why it is important for the cop to make the stop.

My wife recently encountered a somewhat similar scenario. At 2:00 am - right when the bar's close - she spotted a man and woman in a car speeding through an area with a lot of DWI's on three good tires and one very loud and sparky rim. I can assure you that she didn’t think, "Coo Coo Coo, I'll get you Duke Boys", but rather "crap, this guy is DWI and now I've got a shit ton of paper work to do and won't get off shift on time." Its her job, so she pulls the guy over and, go figure, he stops.

Turns out that the guy has his newborn baby in the car and the baby is in serious distress and is struggling to breathe. The guy was in full panic mode and was trying to get to the hospital. On his own, the guy could have caused a wreck costing precious time and possibly the life of the baby or some innocent third party. The area is densely populated and the guy had already run off the road and blown out his front tire.

She assessed the baby (she's also a trained paramedic) and called for aid. Initially, they called for an ambulance and were told the ETA was 10 min. Since this wasn't fast enough, they got the fire department to come within 3 min. If the baby’s breathing deteriorated further - and though it is technically against their department's policy - she would have loaded them all up and run code (lights and siren) to the hospital.
Well put and good on your wife. And I would bet she would not have crashed in the same scenario.

I will say this and I don't care if I get any shit. Women make better police officers, period. And no, I am not a woman.

Too much testosterone, agression, stupidity and small man attitude bring out responses like, "why not just use a bullet or two that will only cost a few bucks?"

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Old 05-10-2012, 05:25 PM   #55
Shredder
cletus's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
From: sammamish, wa

I Ride: 2006 Suzuki GSXR 600; 2007 Yamaha FZ1 (the Mrs.'s bike)
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Norainy View Post
Well put and good on your wife. And I would bet she would not have crashed in the same scenario.

I will say this and I don't care if I get any shit. Women make better police officers, period. And no, I am not a woman.

Too much testosterone, agression, stupidity and small man attitude bring out responses like, "why not just use a bullet or two that will only cost a few bucks?"
Thanks and I think so as well. Plus its nice to "stick it to the man" once in a while.

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Old 05-10-2012, 06:18 PM   #56
Endorsed
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Joined: May 2011
From: Sequim Wa

I Ride: naked
I think both made a bad call.
I heard from some one that knows the cop hes one that doesnt just give up.
He might also agree that he shouldve stopped. He coulve had it a lot worse...

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