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Old 06-27-2012, 01:23 PM   #1
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For the DIRT RIDERS
Fuel Injected CR500 in Modern YZ Frame...

Have always dreamed of having Service Honda's CR500AF in my garage. Not for the YZ frame, but still wishing FI would hit the 2smoke market...let's go KTM, hurry up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=Y91Jms6MyCY#

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Last edited by SingleTrackin; 06-27-2012 at 01:28 PM..
 

Old 06-27-2012, 01:31 PM   #2
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Joined: Aug 2009
From: Mt Hood OR
Blog Entries: 1

I Ride: 98 VFR800FI | 09 CRF250R
I keep hearing about how much weight a fuel injection system adds to a bike. Considering how much simpler two stroke carbs are already over four stroke carbs... what is the exact demonstrable advantage to going fuel injected on a two stroke?

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Old 06-27-2012, 01:32 PM   #3
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Joined: May 2011
From: LaCenter, WA

I Ride: 2003 Copper SV1K
Fewer emissions and more power.

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Old 06-27-2012, 01:34 PM   #4
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good question...who knows, but wish there was more R&D on it. Maybe the advantages can be similar to that of any of the other FI bikes with the unlimited tunability. I'm in the dark, just glad there are those out there not letting it DIE!

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Old 06-27-2012, 01:41 PM   #5
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Joined: May 2011
From: LaCenter, WA

I Ride: 2003 Copper SV1K
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by SingleTrackin View Post
good question...who knows, but wish there was more R&D on it. Maybe the advantages can be similar to that of any of the other FI bikes with the unlimited tunability. I'm in the dark, just glad there are those out there not letting it DIE!
Are you kidding me? FI has been used on Two Stroke snowmobiles for years dood and it's tried and proven. Now all they are trying to do is shrink the package for use on bikes. Current systems ona 100 CC motor have a 2-3 HP increase and far fewer emissions. It's coming....trust me. Yamaha has been using it since at least 2008 if not before.

Basics of how it works:

http://www.synerject.com/di.html

More resource.

http://twostrokemotocross.com/2011/0...uel-injection/

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Old 06-27-2012, 02:15 PM   #6
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Joined: Aug 2009
From: Mt Hood OR
Blog Entries: 1

I Ride: 98 VFR800FI | 09 CRF250R
I would like to see a full on comparison. Same bike before fuel injection and after fuel injection.

I'm all for two strokes though after riding my YZ250 so much. Considering selling my WR400 and trying to seek out another YZ 250 for shredding with!

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Old 06-27-2012, 02:17 PM   #7
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Joined: May 2011
From: LaCenter, WA

I Ride: 2003 Copper SV1K
I JUST read an article a few days ago with a side by side comparison on a dyno but I can't remember where or when exactly. If I find it I'll post it up.

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Old 06-27-2012, 02:21 PM   #8
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Joined: Aug 2009
From: Mt Hood OR
Blog Entries: 1

I Ride: 98 VFR800FI | 09 CRF250R
Nice, I'd be curious about weight as well, but I'm sure they'd address that too!

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Old 06-27-2012, 02:22 PM   #9
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Joined: May 2011
From: LaCenter, WA

I Ride: 2003 Copper SV1K
These guys! Over in the UK of all places. Video:



Links to websites and blogs and stuff.

http://www.athenaparts.com/eng/blog/...ustion-control
http://www.athenaparts.com/blog/dicc...ustion-control

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Old 06-27-2012, 03:41 PM   #10
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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by RedKat600 View Post
Are you kidding me? FI has been used on Two Stroke snowmobiles for years dood and it's tried and proven (no shit...just not on the bikes that I want). Now all they are trying to do is shrink the package for use on bikes. Current systems ona 100 CC motor have a 2-3 HP increase and far fewer emissions. It's coming....trust me. (this has been touted on ALL the forums for the past 10 years, should I hold my breath?) Yamaha has been using it since at least 2008 if not before.

Basics of how it works:

http://www.synerject.com/di.html

More resource.

http://twostrokemotocross.com/2011/0...uel-injection/
I am waiting for mass production...dood

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Old 06-27-2012, 03:52 PM   #11
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Joined: May 2011
From: LaCenter, WA

I Ride: 2003 Copper SV1K
As stated, there has been plenty of R&D on bikes. Just not available to the public yet. With the big 4 stroke boom can you blame the manufacturers for pouring money into 250 and 450 4 strokes? That's where the money has been for years now.

Next time, be a bit more specific. dood.

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Old 06-27-2012, 05:12 PM   #12
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Joined: Jun 2005
From: spokane

I Ride: Mille, kx250, kx500 SM, rd400, yz450
Direct injection like what brp has been using is where it's at

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Old 06-27-2012, 05:20 PM   #13
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Joined: Jun 2005
From: spokane

I Ride: Mille, kx250, kx500 SM, rd400, yz450
Ossa had a 300cc f/I two stroke in the works, I believe they already run the motor in their trials bike and its suppose to be stupid light.
A pic of the enduro
http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:A...Boe4uhYGaIMRyw

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Old 06-27-2012, 08:43 PM   #14
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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by RedKat600 View Post
As stated, there has been plenty of R&D on bikes. Just not available to the public yet. With the big 4 stroke boom can you blame the manufacturers for pouring money into 250 and 450 4 strokes? That's where the money has been for years now.

Next time, be a bit more specific. dood.
Do I blame manufactures for force feeding us those high maintenance, high compression thumper time bombs...are we talking about the same bikes that make it near impossible for privateers to make an entrance into the pro ranks due to cost alone? Those bikes? Kidding mang, but no I dont really blame them, just hold a grudge at the fact that they had to get rid of the smoker. Good for KTM for continuing to go there own direction.

Last thing I want to do is make this a 2stroke vs 4stroke war, leave that to the thumpertalk forum. I like them both, just favor the character of the smoker, and the simplicity regarding maintenance.

Just got excited that someone put a 500 smoker in an aluminum frame...I like frankenbikes like these!

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Old 06-28-2012, 07:36 AM   #15
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Joined: Oct 2011
From: Spokane, WA

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orbial has had a FI system for 2 stroks for about 10 years. works great, they have a studdy conducted in 2003 comparing 2 stroke fi to equivalent 4, 2 put out more power, consumed less fuel and of the emissions had a lower percentage of harmful gasses.

Gas Gas and KTM are the only ones with good two stroks right now (in the us), there is another manufacturer that will be releasing a new two stroke in mid-2013 but you did not hear this from me

it really is a shame the two stroke motor has not had more R&D time/ money, the performance of two stroke motors has not changed much since the early 70's other then reviving better electronics and carbonation from 4 stroke r&D.

The internal combustion motor (2 stroke, 4 stroke and Wankel) days are coming to an end, it really is unfortunate we never really understood the potential of the 2 stroke and Wankel motors.

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Old 06-28-2012, 08:56 AM   #16
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Joined: Jun 2005
From: spokane

I Ride: Mille, kx250, kx500 SM, rd400, yz450
BRP has been evolving the 2 stroke motor, their e tec direct injection that they use in their outboards and sleds is the cleanest, most efficient system on the market. I know of one shop that fires up ski doo's on the floor to show how clean they burn, no way you could do that without the direct injeection you would smoke everyone out

“ Quote:
Gas Gas and KTM are the only ones with good two stroks right now (in the us), there is another manufacturer that will be releasing a new two stroke in mid-2013 but you did not hear this from me
What about Yamaha? The YZ125 & 250 are incredible platforms, that would be my 1st choice of a new stroke with the KTM300 close behind.
Is the other manufacture you talk about OSSA?

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Old 06-28-2012, 09:39 AM   #17
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Joined: Sep 2005
From: Jacinto

I Ride: Aprilia Mille R, Gixxer 600, Yamaha WR250, Yamaha TTR125
I thought the EPA had a large role in killing off the 2-stroke. Aren't 2-strokes, because of their design, inherently more of a polluter than a 4-stroke?

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Old 06-28-2012, 04:47 PM   #18
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Joined: Jul 2006
From: Pullman WA

I Ride: the parts counter...
What about Yamaha? The YZ125 & 250 are incredible platforms, that would be my 1st choice of a new stroke with the KTM300 close behind.
Is the other manufacture you talk about OSSA?[/QUOTE]

Personal preference- I don't like the geometry of the YZ. For some reason being as tall as I am it feels cramped vs a KTM (with the same bar setup on each). But the KTM 250SX is way ahead of the YZ power wise and has the price point (in 2012). Plus the sweet 300 SXS kit is cheap and makes a fire breather when dropped on a SX crank.

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Old 06-28-2012, 05:41 PM   #19
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Joined: Oct 2007
From: from Wa, living on Grenada (island)

I Ride: 1991 XR250L, 2007 BMW F800S, 1999 ATK 605 ESDS/SM
Any modern use of the CR500 engine


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Old 06-30-2012, 07:06 AM   #20
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From: Spokane, WA

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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by mnewell View Post
I thought the EPA had a large role in killing off the 2-stroke. Aren't 2-strokes, because of their design, inherently more of a polluter than a 4-stroke?
The EPA has not said anything about 2-stroke motors. Yamaha wanted to create additional revenue, Honda followed closely behind. It is good to have the choice between 2 and 4 strokes for different applications, however Yamaha and Honda convinced the AMA to give fourstrokes a huge advantage by increasing minimum weights and allowing larger displacement 4 strokes.

The position of the 2-stroke was caused by:
-Yamaha/ Honda
-AMA
-The American motorcycle riders that went along with this

The 2-stroke, when compared to an equal 4-stroke can be much more efficent. The 2-stroke can operate reliably at 250+ psi brake mean effective pressure where as a 4-stroke operates at about 150psi (wankles can get past 350 PSI)

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