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Old 08-05-2012, 02:06 PM   #41
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Joined: May 2012
From: Portland, Oregon

I Ride: 03 r6
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Debi View Post
This is wrong.. riding dirt you also look ahead not down. Looking ahead on Straights, turns, ect help you see what is ahead of you and pick you lines. This same thing applies to street riding.

Looking ahead/through the turn is what it says... look ahead


Found this... hope this helps
------------------------------

http://www.examiner.com/article/turn...where-you-look
I did not mean staring at the ground right in front of the fender. A lot of my riding was in the woods making my own trails, and I found that when I was riding 5 mph what is 10 feet or so (depends on a lot of things) in front of me was more important for navigating around logs and stuff. On face paced trail, sand, and mx tracks its a different story. I also know the traction limits on a dirt bike, but I'm still trying to figure out how much sand/gravel/oil will make me slide on these smooth ass tires.

I'll check out that link as soon as I get a chance. Thanks for the reply

“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Mic View Post
I don't get skipping to the loo either. Can anyone answer that one for me?
I did not spend much time proof reading

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Old 08-05-2012, 02:16 PM   #42
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Joined: Apr 2009
From: Renton, WA

I Ride: 05 KTM450SMR, 04 YZF250 and one bad ass Truck hehe
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Meyers View Post
I did not mean staring at the ground right in front of the fender. A lot of my riding was in the woods making my own trails, and I found that when I was riding 5 mph what is 10 feet or so (depends on a lot of things) in front of me was more important for navigating around logs and stuff. On face paced trail, sand, and mx tracks its a different story. I also know the traction limits on a dirt bike, but I'm still trying to figure out how much sand/gravel/oil will make me slide on these smooth ass tires.

I'll check out that link as soon as I get a chance. Thanks for the reply



I did not spend much time proof reading

FYI... even on tight single track you need to look ahead and look ahead through the turn You look as far ahead as you can besides your eyes are constantly scanning.

Don't worry... you will get it.. it will be like a huge slap in the face when it clicks and you're very welcome

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Old 08-05-2012, 02:16 PM   #43
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Joined: Apr 2011
From: Port Orchard, WA

I Ride: 2007 Moto Guzzi Norge, 1988 H-D (Project) Electra-Glide
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Mic View Post
I don't get skipping to the loo either. Can anyone answer that one for me?
I can see walking if it's routine business or running like hell if two days of Dos Equis and burritos suddenly catches up, but I hard pressed to figure an appropriate occasion to skip.

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Old 08-05-2012, 02:18 PM   #44
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Joined: Apr 2009
From: Renton, WA

I Ride: 05 KTM450SMR, 04 YZF250 and one bad ass Truck hehe
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Texasl View Post
I can see walking if it's routine business or running like hell if two days of Dos Equis and burritos suddenly catches up, but I hard pressed to figure an appropriate occasion to skip.
Ahhh... when you are at the Pub hehe

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Old 08-05-2012, 02:24 PM   #45
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From: Port Orchard, WA

I Ride: 2007 Moto Guzzi Norge, 1988 H-D (Project) Electra-Glide
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Debi View Post
Ahhh... when you are at the Pub hehe
Only if I'm teasing Bluuu.

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Old 08-05-2012, 02:31 PM   #46
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Joined: Aug 2007
From: Portland, OR

I Ride: SV1000S in the faster copper color, and a hell of a lot slower than I used to.
Here's the deal: if you're not looking far enough through the corner you can't counter steer-correctly, you will go wide. It's almost always better to cut the inside than to go wide. Not least because you can always loosen up your radius but it's usually a lot harder (or, when you're doing things _really_ wrnog, impossible) to tighten it up.

If you are cutting to the inside it's because you're applying too much counter-steering, due to the bike naturally going where you look and you not paying attention to the steering inputs. Pivot your head - your nose should point towards the corner exit, or as far along the corner as you can see. AND pay attention to your steering inputs. Now go practice, practice and practice some more, there's a good boy.

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Old 08-05-2012, 03:56 PM   #47
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Joined: Apr 2009
From: Renton, WA

I Ride: 05 KTM450SMR, 04 YZF250 and one bad ass Truck hehe
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Texasl View Post
Only if I'm teasing Bluuu.
Well then ya know that is a MUST do hehe

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Old 08-05-2012, 04:05 PM   #48
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Joined: Oct 2005
From: CENTRAL

I Ride: When I can
Look where ya want to go.
Don't look directly at whats right in front of you.
Look way past your front wheel.
The farther you can learn to look, the better line you can choose.
This also gives you a better chance of avoiding trouble in corners.

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Old 08-05-2012, 08:52 PM   #49
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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Meyers View Post
I will look into them. Which one would you say is the better of the three?
At your state of the game if I'd have to pick just one it would be Twist of the wrist II. Like I said I rely on all three but twist II and Total Control are my favorites.

You notice how everyone that's posted is trying to tell you how to do it but in a different way or what it means to them? There's more than one way to skin a cat.

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Old 08-05-2012, 11:33 PM   #50
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Joined: Aug 2008
From: Milwaukie

I Ride: Triumph Tiger 800
The concept of vanishing point helped me a lot. the link is a brief intro, but there are other articles available.

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Old 08-05-2012, 11:38 PM   #51
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From: Portland, Oregon

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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by thrasher View Post
At your state of the game if I'd have to pick just one it would be Twist of the wrist II. Like I said I rely on all three but twist II and Total Control are my favorites.

You notice how everyone that's posted is trying to tell you how to do it but in a different way or what it means to them? There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Is the book written like the film? It would be nice if the film had more detail, like explaining the vision thing. I checked out reviews on the three books you suggested and it seems like Total Control is a little more detailed that Twist of The Wrist II




I went for a ride earlier to to practice all the ideas I got here. I found that I was not looking far enough, and I was hopping my focus around. Keeping my eyes level and not "spot lighting" makes a .huge difference. I got the "ah ha" moment, as I was instantly smoother in turning, braking, and avoiding obstacles. Thanks again for all your input!

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Old 08-06-2012, 12:58 AM   #52
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Twist II was written to be easily digested by a new/novice rider. I think Total Control is written for a more experienced rider. It's perhaps a little more technical.

Cheap for the knowledge you get. You can go back and read them any time you like and you won't have to post up and wait for an answer.

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Old 08-06-2012, 02:49 AM   #53
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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by dscott3509 View Post
The concept of vanishing point helped me a lot. the link is a brief intro, but there are other articles available.
I might have to play with this next time I hit the twisties.

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Old 08-06-2012, 02:57 AM   #54
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Joined: Apr 2009
From: Renton, WA

I Ride: 05 KTM450SMR, 04 YZF250 and one bad ass Truck hehe
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Meyers View Post
Is the book written like the film? It would be nice if the film had more detail, like explaining the vision thing. I checked out reviews on the three books you suggested and it seems like Total Control is a little more detailed that Twist of The Wrist II




I went for a ride earlier to to practice all the ideas I got here. I found that I was not looking far enough, and I was hopping my focus around. Keeping my eyes level and not "spot lighting" makes a .huge difference. I got the "ah ha" moment, as I was instantly smoother in turning, braking, and avoiding obstacles. Thanks again for all your input!

Now this is good to hear

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Old 08-06-2012, 07:12 AM   #55
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From: teh rock
Louie Louie, whooooooaa bebbie, me gotta go...

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Old 08-06-2012, 01:20 PM   #56
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Joined: Feb 2012
From: Issaquah Washington

I Ride: 2010 Ninja 250r Sold & 99 R1
The best way that i was taught on how to look ahead was using the SEE Technique (MSF Course) So it states:

Search
Evaluate
Execute

Search thru out the road as u approach the turn, Look for potential hazards, opening of the curve, speed as you approach the curve.

Evaluate the potential hazards, body position as you lean into the curve remember inside outside inside, keep a steady hand on the throttle and maintain appropriate speed.

Execute a plan for the potential hazards , execute appropriate body positioning thru out the curve, remember to look where you want to go.

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Old 08-07-2012, 06:19 AM   #57
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Joined: Oct 2008
From: Medford, OR

I Ride: 2007 Yamaha FJR 1300
You know I was looking at this yesterday and thought to myself, this guy is gonna get all kind of shit in response.

But yesterday while driving home after work on the 205; it came to me why you posed the question. While driving at 65 MPH and just about 20 feet of the cars bumper ahead of me made me think why we don't look to where we want to go or through corners while driving a car. The dip wads that drive these days don't follow the simple courteous driving skills.

If you leave a spot in front of you so that another car can squeeze in, some shit head will sneak the nose of their car in and hit the brakes. If you take your eyes off that front car you’re going to get in an accident. Happens every day here in traffic, for no reason at all.

But, while riding a motorcycle you can position yourself in the lane so that you can see where you’re headed. You have to or you'll run over some piece of fire wood, or a ladder, or who know what else. You have to change your driving/riding style when riding a bike. You have to know that one of those cars is going to run your ass over.

The best place to be is either up front and away from the cars or in the back watching them jockey for the empty real-estate just behind the next car.

Man you have to look at where you want to be, not where you’re at. It's tough sometimes. I drive a car twice a week between Medford and Portland. We drive at 70MPH less than 40 feet from the car just in front. So when I get on my bike I have to convince myself to turn my head to see where I want to go.

Good luck, stay safe.

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Old 08-07-2012, 08:40 PM   #58
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From: Portland, Oregon

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I thought I would update a little more. I bought Twist of The Wrist I and II yesterday, and read them both. I took a ride to Bald Peak earlier to practice what I read, and learned from this thread. When I applied the "look through the turn" idea I found that I make far less corrections, my confidence was much higher, and I could take the turn a lot faster. On the street, going around obstacles is cake. If I look around what ever I am trying to avoid the bike goes around it, I dont even have to try.

Now I have to work on death grip, chopping the throttle, pulling myself back up with my leg versus the clip ons, target fixation, finding a line that keeps me away from the center line, and flicking quicker among other things.

It looks like I have my work cut out for me, but slowing it down and focusing on one thing at a time helps a lot. These books are great! Thanks a lot thrasher for the suggestion.

Another question though- do you ever pull on the clip ones to turn? An example would be to pull on right to turn left rather than push on the left. For some reason its natural for me. Should I be doing this?

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Old 08-07-2012, 10:12 PM   #59
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Joined: Sep 2007
From: 2nd star to the right and straight on 'til morning

I Ride: on ice at 15F below zero. GO ICEHOLES!!!
Riding a motorcycle well is like anything worth doing.
It takes determination and practice.

Everyone is born with a finite amount of natural motorcycle riding ability.
Riders like Schwantz, Rossi, McGrath, Carmicheal and Roberts have the most.
The rest of us have to work at it.

I like Nick Ienatsch's info at Yamaha Champions Motorcycle Riding School.
Also his book "Sport Riding Techniques" is probably the most usefull riding template I own.
Its directed at the street rider, but has excellent information for any rider at any level.
I own nearly every riding manual available... Including Kenny Roberts long, long out of print "Techniques of Motorcycle Roadracing".

If you are serious about performance motorcycle riding, I strongly suggest you attend a reputable track day organization event.

2-Fast, PSSR are both respected groups that work in Oregon.
Add OPRT and Sullivans Race School in Washington and you have many choices.

Seriously, the time and money are worth it.
Try an instruction day.

I bet you will enjoy it and learn alot that will help your journey as a rider.

My $.02, and always worth every penny.
Peace.
#121

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Old 08-07-2012, 10:24 PM   #60
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Joined: Sep 2007
From: 2nd star to the right and straight on 'til morning

I Ride: on ice at 15F below zero. GO ICEHOLES!!!
Oh yeah....

The original post...

In my experience it works something like this.
(In my opinion it applies equally to street and dirt, no matter what the circumstances, but what the fuck do I know?)

With your head and eyes up, looking downtrack...
As soon as possible, visually find your corner entry point.
Then as soon as possible identify the apex.
Remember, your head and eyes up (fuck you Rossi...)
The repeat for the exit.
Then repeat for the next corner entry.
etc, etc, so on and so forth.

This helps you anticipate your next move and allows you to get through turns faster.

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