I don't get "looing through the turn"

Michael Meyers · 08-04-2012, 09:56 PM

I have been riding street for about 5 months now, and I cannot get a grasp on looking through a turn. I understand the idea, but I cannot figure out how to apply It is really affecting my growth as a rider, diminishing confidence, and making riding unsafe. I want to change this asap, and I am hoping someone can explain it to me a little better.

Before I rode street I rode in the dirt. Riding dirt requires looking at the ground to avoid any obstacles that would make you eat shit. I am having trouble breaking that. I am afraid that while going around a corner I will hit a pot hole, gravel, or oil. I find myself scanning the ground in front of me instead of guiding my bike with my eyes. How do I look through a turn withing checking the road surface? Does my bike have better traction than I think?

Another question/issue I have is that I am not sure where to look. I have read that I should look as far as I can see. I have not figured out how to apply this to long slow turns that are out in the open. If I look at the end of the turn my bike goes inside too much. When on the Terwilliger Curves that is not a good thing.

I know once I get it I'll get it, but I have not been able to find a short summarized explanation as to how to apply the idea of looking through a turn. Can someone help me simplify this whole thing? Thanks

Khustla · 08-04-2012, 10:02 PM

Looing through the turn?

That's nasty.

tyrklnr · 08-04-2012, 10:03 PM

buy "twist of the wrist II" will explain a great many things you should know.

clutchrow · 08-04-2012, 10:13 PM

Look through the turn as far as you can see. Scan with your eyes for obstacles.
If you're turning in to the inside too quickly, you're applying too much handlebar pressure. Relax. Either pull the inside bar to reduce the lean angle or push on the opposite grip.
Watch Keith Code's A Twist of the Wrist DVD. Practice.

justinsabre · 08-04-2012, 10:17 PM

due to riding dirt for a while before going to street it messes with people. i have also gone from dirt to street, so i caught myself looking down from time to time. but as i have learned that if u look down ur bike wants to go that way, so when they say look where u want to go they mean it, as i am coming to a corner i will glance at the turn to see what the road looks like but thats before i get there. as in the turn i try and look at where i want the bike to go, i will glance ahead to make sure im not coming out of the corner and into something. well give it time and u will get it all down,

WTFO · 08-04-2012, 10:21 PM

On the street you dont look through the corner to the exit you will eat pavement if not today but someday sooner than later.

1. Go find a twisty road - one with MINIMAL traffic

2. Start at a pace you feel comfortable at

3. Start by looking at the entrance to the turn and pick your turn in point

4. From there scan the road from the entry to the exit so you feel comfortable - eventually you will does this very quickly

The object is to get in the habit of doing this to BREAK the bad habit of looking at the immediate area in front of your bike and getting your point of focus locked into that area.

Best answer I can give you at the moment

Go buy Keith Code's books Twist Of The Wrist 1 & 2 read them learn them and apply them and ask for help from more experienced riders

Eventually as you get better and smoother you will do this very quickly and be able to expend your focus factor on other more important things.

SiCC · 08-04-2012, 10:22 PM

when you are coming up to a corner, you are looking for your braking points. while braking you are looking at the apex. approaching the apex you should be looking at corner exit. you eyes should be a step ahead of what you are doing and everything else use your peripheral.

also looking far ahead in general makes your brain sense everything a bit more slowly, which also makes your inputs less twitchy.

Michael Meyers · 08-04-2012, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Khustla

Looing through the turn?

That's nasty.

Yeah I noticed that, I dont think I can edit the title though lol

Originally Posted by tyrklnr

buy "twist of the wrist II" will explain a great many things you should know.

I cannot even count how many times I've seen seen it. Probably again tonight. The cool thing is I learn something every time I watch it.

Originally Posted by justinsabre

due to riding dirt for a while before going to street it messes with people. i have also gone from dirt to street, so i caught myself looking down from time to time. but as i have learned that if u look down ur bike wants to go that way, so when they say look where u want to go they mean it, as i am coming to a corner i will glance at the turn to see what the road looks like but thats before i get there. as in the turn i try and look at where i want the bike to go, i will glance ahead to make sure im not coming out of the corner and into something. well give it time and u will get it all down,

Would you say you look ahead a certain amount of time? Like I mentioned in my original post, when I take long ass turns that are totally open if I look at the end of the turn I messes up my line and I start taking the turn too tight (cutting into the other lane/divider!). Do you follow "the line" with your eyes? maybe a couple seconds ahead of where you are in a turn?

Thanks for your input all

SiCC · 08-04-2012, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by Michael Meyers

Would you say you look ahead a certain amount of time? Like I mentioned in my original post, when I take long ass turns that are totally open if I look at the end of the turn I messes up my line and I start taking the turn too tight (cutting into the other lane/divider!). Do you follow "the line" with your eyes? maybe a couple seconds ahead of where you are in a turn?

Thanks for your input all

maintain your lean angle but use the throttle to adjust your line, give it more gas. it just means you can go faster!!! (not speeding, of course

)

Michael Meyers · 08-04-2012, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by WTFO

On the street you dont look through the corner to the exit you will eat pavement if not today but someday sooner than later.

1. Go find a twisty road - one with MINIMAL traffic

2. Start at a pace you feel comfortable at

3. Start by looking at the entrance to the turn and pick your turn in point

4. From there scan the road from the entry to the exit so you feel comfortable - eventually you will does this very quickly

The object is to get in the habit of doing this to BREAK the bad habit of looking at the immediate area in front of your bike and getting your point of focus locked into that area.

Best answer I can give you at the moment

Go buy Keith Code's books Twist Of The Wrist 1 & 2 read them learn them and apply them and ask for help from more experienced riders

Eventually as you get better and smoother you will do this very quickly and be able to expend your focus factor on other more important things.

Sounds like solid advice. So do you check the road surface from the corner of your eye or just hope there is no oil, gravel, or other crap? On the street should I be constantly scanning the surface or always looking ahead?

Originally Posted by SiCC

when you are coming up to a corner, you are looking for your braking points. while braking you are looking at the apex. approaching the apex you should be looking at corner exit. you eyes should be a step ahead of what you are doing and everything else use your peripheral.

also looking far ahead in general makes your brain sense everything a bit more slowly, which also makes your inputs less twitchy.

Thanks for breaking that down, it helps a lot. I will use this as a template next time I go to bald peak. I have been going up there every other day or so

LostTheFront · 08-04-2012, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Michael Meyers

Would you say you look ahead a certain amount of time? Like I mentioned in my original post, when I take long ass turns that are totally open if I look at the end of the turn I messes up my line and I start taking the turn too tight (cutting into the other lane/divider!). Do you follow "the line" with your eyes? maybe a couple seconds ahead of where you are in a turn?

If you find yourself turning too far inside the turn, I'd say it's likely from turning in too early. In long sweepers it is easy to start the turn in too early, you almost have to purposely stay wide while looking over the apex and at the exit. Try not to "peel it in" toward the apex until you can see the exit if the corner is a long sweeper or blind.

WTFO · 08-04-2012, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by SiCC

maintain your lean angle but use the throttle to adjust your line, give it more gas. it just means you can go faster!!! (not speeding, of course

)

and run wider on exit or just pick the bike up to hold the line

and apply the throttle smoothly

Michael Meyers · 08-04-2012, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by SiCC

maintain your lean angle but use the throttle to adjust your line, give it more gas. it just means you can go faster!!! (not speeding, of course

)

my lean angle is totally fucked. up and down and up and down. I find myself looking around all over the place to look for other cars and crap on the road. I ride everyday, and consciously try to improve my riding.

LostTheFront · 08-04-2012, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Michael Meyers

So do you check the road surface from the corner of your eye or just hope there is no oil, gravel, or other crap? On the street should I be constantly scanning the surface or always looking ahead?

Yes, check the road surface using peripheral vision. If you see an obstacle, again look "around" it to keep from hitting it. Unless the lighting conditions are really poor, you can see the blemishes in the pavement just fine without actually looking directly at it. Occasionally you can sense that you may have run over a small pebble, the front or rear tire will move out slightly but causes no problems (other than a few extra heartbeats).

WTFO · 08-04-2012, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Michael Meyers

my lean angle is totally fucked. up and down and up and down. I find myself looking around all over the place to look for other cars and crap on the road. I ride everyday, and consciously try to improve my riding.

Do what I told you and it will fix some of the problems very quickly - you will learn to "see" things as you do that with your peripheral vision

Look up LATE APEX cornering

http://www.soundrider.com/archive/sa...lls/RS-cc2.htm

Above link has some good information read it

SiCC · 08-04-2012, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by WTFO

and run wider on exit or just pick the bike up to hold the line

and apply the throttle smoothly

picking the bike up is ok for slow speeds, but as the keith code states you should not upset the bike by adjusting your body/change lean mid coner. you should set all that before corner entry, then use throttle to manipulate your line.

when i said use the gas to go wide, i didnt mean hammer the throttle. just enough to bring your line out to where it needs to be. has nothing to do with corner exit.

Originally Posted by Michael Meyers

my lean angle is totally fucked. up and down and up and down. I find myself looking around all over the place to look for other cars and crap on the road. I ride everyday, and consciously try to improve my riding.

look at the horizon of the pavement, you are looking down.

next time you are driving in your car, look at how you are giving inputs to the wheel. if you look just ahead at the next cars bumper for example, you arm will constantly be adjusting. try looking ahead a few hundred feet. you will see that there is no need to make those minor adjustments.

WTFO · 08-04-2012, 11:02 PM

SiCC that is what I was trying to say use the throttle to pick the bike up not body

Michael Meyers · 08-04-2012, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by WTFO

Do what I told you and it will fix some of the problems very quickly - you will learn to "see" things as you do that with your peripheral vision

Look up LATE APEX cornering

http://www.soundrider.com/archive/sa...lls/RS-cc2.htm

Above link has some good information read it

I think I've got a much better understanding of how to apply the "look where you want to go". If its not so damn hot tomorrow I'll be try your suggestions, and hopefully it clicks. Maybe I can get rid of these 1" chicken strips lol. I'll check out that link when I'm done replying here.

Originally Posted by SiCC

picking the bike up is ok for slow speeds, but as the keith code states you should not upset the bike by adjusting your body/change lean mid coner. you should set all that before corner entry, then use throttle to manipulate your line.

when i said use the gas to go wide, i didnt mean hammer the throttle. just enough to bring your line out to where it needs to be. has nothing to do with corner exit.

look at the horizon of the pavement, you are looking down.

next time you are driving in your car, look at how you are giving inputs to the wheel. if you look just ahead at the next cars bumper for example, you arm will constantly be adjusting. try looking ahead a few hundred feet. you will see that there is no need to make those minor adjustments.

I dont own a car, but I understand what your saying. Thats why really low speed braking and u-turns are so twitchy! I've been staring at the ground in front of me. click.

SiCC · 08-04-2012, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by WTFO

SiCC that is what I was trying to say use the throttle to pick the bike up not body

you know what they say, great minds think alike!

WTFO · 08-04-2012, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Michael Meyers

I think I've got a much better understanding of how to apply the "look where you want to go". If its not so damn hot tomorrow I'll be try your suggestions, and hopefully it clicks. Maybe I can get rid of these 1" chicken strips lol. I'll check out that link when I'm done replying here.

I dont own a car, but I understand what your saying. Thats why really low speed braking and u-turns are so twitchy! I've been staring at the ground in front of me. click.

Dont effing worry about the shit ass chicken strips - work on learning and doing the things you need to do to keep you safe and upright - the speed and loss of chicken strips comes with time - street riders use way more lean angle than they need to

LEARN TO BE SMOOTH first and fore most - your bike will thank you

Move your upper body off the centerline of the bike and get the shoulder into the corner you are turning into move it towards the mirror - this will make things more stable and comfortable feeling and you will tend to look through the corner as a result - also the bike will respond better and do not get a death grip on the clip ons


08-04-2012, 09:56 PM	#1
Michael Meyers Endorsed Joined: May 2012 From: Tigard, Oregon I Ride: Rain or shine!	I don't get "looing through the turn" I have been riding street for about 5 months now, and I cannot get a grasp on looking through a turn. I understand the idea, but I cannot figure out how to apply It is really affecting my growth as a rider, diminishing confidence, and making riding unsafe. I want to change this asap, and I am hoping someone can explain it to me a little better. Before I rode street I rode in the dirt. Riding dirt requires looking at the ground to avoid any obstacles that would make you eat shit. I am having trouble breaking that. I am afraid that while going around a corner I will hit a pot hole, gravel, or oil. I find myself scanning the ground in front of me instead of guiding my bike with my eyes. How do I look through a turn withing checking the road surface? Does my bike have better traction than I think? Another question/issue I have is that I am not sure where to look. I have read that I should look as far as I can see. I have not figured out how to apply this to long slow turns that are out in the open. If I look at the end of the turn my bike goes inside too much. When on the Terwilliger Curves that is not a good thing. I know once I get it I'll get it, but I have not been able to find a short summarized explanation as to how to apply the idea of looking through a turn. Can someone help me simplify this whole thing? Thanks __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


08-04-2012, 10:02 PM	#2
Khustla Peg Dragger Joined: Jun 2010 From: Alabama I Ride: , we ride!	Looing through the turn? That's nasty. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


08-04-2012, 10:03 PM	#3
tyrklnr Chicken Strips Joined: Apr 2011 From: under the viaduct I Ride: APE	buy "twist of the wrist II" will explain a great many things you should know. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


08-04-2012, 10:13 PM	#4
clutchrow Endorsed Joined: May 2012 From: Portland, OR I Ride: FZed6	Look through the turn as far as you can see. Scan with your eyes for obstacles. If you're turning in to the inside too quickly, you're applying too much handlebar pressure. Relax. Either pull the inside bar to reduce the lean angle or push on the opposite grip. Watch Keith Code's A Twist of the Wrist DVD. Practice. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


08-04-2012, 10:17 PM	#5
justinsabre Licensed Joined: Sep 2010 From: beaverton or I Ride: 82 honda sabre v45	due to riding dirt for a while before going to street it messes with people. i have also gone from dirt to street, so i caught myself looking down from time to time. but as i have learned that if u look down ur bike wants to go that way, so when they say look where u want to go they mean it, as i am coming to a corner i will glance at the turn to see what the road looks like but thats before i get there. as in the turn i try and look at where i want the bike to go, i will glance ahead to make sure im not coming out of the corner and into something. well give it time and u will get it all down, __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


08-04-2012, 10:21 PM	#6
WTFO Novice Racer Joined: Jul 2007 From: An unstated X,Y,Z coordinate I Ride: 09 Blk Daytona 675 (better than hoochie), BLK/Silver 06 Tiger, Red 04 R1, Yellow 99 Daytona 955i	On the street you dont look through the corner to the exit you will eat pavement if not today but someday sooner than later. 1. Go find a twisty road - one with MINIMAL traffic 2. Start at a pace you feel comfortable at 3. Start by looking at the entrance to the turn and pick your turn in point 4. From there scan the road from the entry to the exit so you feel comfortable - eventually you will does this very quickly The object is to get in the habit of doing this to BREAK the bad habit of looking at the immediate area in front of your bike and getting your point of focus locked into that area. Best answer I can give you at the moment Go buy Keith Code's books Twist Of The Wrist 1 & 2 read them learn them and apply them and ask for help from more experienced riders Eventually as you get better and smoother you will do this very quickly and be able to expend your focus factor on other more important things. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


08-04-2012, 10:22 PM	#7
SiCC Novice Racer Joined: Apr 2006 From: HighBridge Snohomish, WA I Ride: GSXR600,DRZsm	when you are coming up to a corner, you are looking for your braking points. while braking you are looking at the apex. approaching the apex you should be looking at corner exit. you eyes should be a step ahead of what you are doing and everything else use your peripheral. also looking far ahead in general makes your brain sense everything a bit more slowly, which also makes your inputs less twitchy. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


08-04-2012, 11:02 PM	#17
WTFO Novice Racer Joined: Jul 2007 From: An unstated X,Y,Z coordinate I Ride: 09 Blk Daytona 675 (better than hoochie), BLK/Silver 06 Tiger, Red 04 R1, Yellow 99 Daytona 955i	SiCC that is what I was trying to say use the throttle to pick the bike up not body __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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