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Old 08-16-2012, 03:33 PM   #1
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Joined: Jun 2011
From: Yakima, WA

I Ride: 1199 Panigale
S1000rr
So I have an interesting topic that I believe some of you might like to debate. With motorcycle manufacturers that have been in the business for years and years devoting billions of dollars into research and development what is it about BMW's S1000RR that enables them to put down so much more power to the ground than everyone else? It seems to me that some of the other big name manufacturers would have answered up to the challenge already and despite the release of Ducati's 1199 Panigale which produces more crank horsepower, they still aren't putting down the same numbers at the wheel. Any thoughts?

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Old 08-16-2012, 03:39 PM   #2
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Joined: Oct 2007
From: from Wa, living on Grenada (island)

I Ride: 1991 XR250L, 2007 BMW F800S, 1999 ATK 605 ESDS/SM
i've never seen any proof the 1199 puts down more crank horsepower.


As for your answer...I guess they worked on eliminating parasitic loss in the trans.

As for why the engine is so powerful, the answer is simple, the valve train.

good read

http://www.ashonbikes.com/content/bmw-s1000rr-valves

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Old 08-16-2012, 03:48 PM   #3
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Joined: Sep 2011
From: bonney lake

I Ride: BMW S1000RR, Honda Ruckus
neat, and sexy as hell too

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Old 08-16-2012, 03:55 PM   #4
Shredder
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Joined: Aug 2008
From: Grass Pants, OR
Blog Entries: 1

I Ride: 06 CBR600RR (mine) / 88 CBR600F (hers)
My dad heard (He's friends with their lead engineer in fairy dust/unicorn horn engineering) that they rip the souls out of ginger kids immediately after birth, and extract their essence to feed the hellish demon that lives in the fuel tank, who then shits out a mixture of rocket fuel and NOS energy drink (approximately 350 octane) to power the motorcycle to it's god like horsepower numbers.

It's all very simple, I'm sure Av has the email somewhere he can forward to you.

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Old 08-16-2012, 04:05 PM   #5
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Joined: Jul 2008
From: Issaquah, WA

I Ride: '09 Honda CBR1000RR, '95 BMW R1100GS, '98 KTM EXC 380SM
Well to answer part of it... there isn't a very significant variance in drivetrain loss amongst factory sportbikes so the arguement that the 1199 produces more crank horsepower is actually proven wrong by real dyno numbers.

The other thing is, despite BMW not having produced a modern I4 superbike, they do have a hell of a lot of engineering experience, and are one of the most experienced motorcycle manufacturers.

Lastly, people who understand the importance of power output look at more than peak numbers. Yes, the S1000RR makes the most peak power of the current production bikes, BUT have you look at how and where it makes that number? I don't have a comparison in front of me at the moment but if memory serves, from 3000-12,000rpms the S1000RR makes the same or less power than some competitors, but keeps revving to 14k which is where it peaks out an extra 15+ ponies. In other words, aside from when you're in those extra couple thousand rpms for those split moments, it isn't making any more power. Peak numbers do look good on marketing materials though.

I'm not hating though... those extra ponies in the last few rpms do make a difference at certain points of a track or road, but the real importance is area under the curve and usable power.

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Old 08-16-2012, 04:07 PM   #6
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Joined: Jun 2010
From: Portland.
Blog Entries: 1

I Ride: Like the wind!
S1000rr ftw!!!

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Old 08-16-2012, 04:07 PM   #7
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Joined: Jul 2006
From: Seattle
Horsepower doesnt equate to race wins. Maybe the others are concentrating on winning. If you cant put that power down to the ground, what good is it?

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Old 08-16-2012, 04:22 PM   #8
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Joined: Oct 2007
From: from Wa, living on Grenada (island)

I Ride: 1991 XR250L, 2007 BMW F800S, 1999 ATK 605 ESDS/SM
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpent View Post
Horsepower doesnt equate to race wins. Maybe the others are concentrating on winning. If you cant put that power down to the ground, what good is it?
haven't' watched much WSBK this season have you? BMW's in 1st in the manufacturer's standings and 2nd in the riders standings.

as for the rest of the curve, here's the 2011 shootout dynos

Of course the twins are up top in midrange, and the CBR because that's all the engine is built for, but other than that the BMW matches everyone pretty closely until 10K RPM where it takes off.

Motorcycle Talk

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Old 08-16-2012, 04:41 PM   #9
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Joined: Jul 2006
From: Seattle
One fairly successful partial season, doesnt exactly equate to domination. BMW Factory teams should be competitive, they have a ton of cash for R&D. Show me the guys, without factory support who are dominating on it. It is average at best in the AMA.

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Old 08-16-2012, 05:11 PM   #10
Peg Dragger
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Joined: Jul 2010
From: Nehalem, Or

I Ride: cause I obey the voices in my head
What a bunch of crap. The rider, Max, will show that all that crap (tech news), will show what really matters.

MotoGP is dead, as one needs to make money off of this bike riding hobby.

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Old 08-16-2012, 06:30 PM   #11
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Joined: Jun 2012
From: Lake Forest Park

I Ride: how my grandma taught me
A bike does not ride itself.

It's only as good as s/he who rides it.

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Old 08-16-2012, 07:17 PM   #12
Streetfighter
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Joined: Feb 2009
From: Pennisula backroads
Blog Entries: 2

I Ride: a cruzzer
This is really hard to argue with.
All the I4's are the same until the top end.
BMW really nailed it.

Motorcycle Talk

Av is right.
Now go get laid kid. You in paradise!!!

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Old 08-16-2012, 07:30 PM   #13
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Joined: Jun 2005
From: spokane

I Ride: Mille, kx250, kx500 SM, rd400, yz450
That Beemer motor is rockin it in the CRT bikes

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Old 08-16-2012, 07:48 PM   #14
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Joined: Apr 2011
From: Aloha-ish

I Ride: 05 636
Im reading the liter bike shootout in sport rider magazine and they actually found the zx-10 number one over the bmw (2nd) of course they dont deny their love of the bmw either. I just wish they could test the ninja with the ecu unleashed then the horsepower figures would be a lot closer!

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Old 08-16-2012, 08:05 PM   #15
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Joined: Aug 2010
From: Renton, WA

I Ride: BMW S1000RR, Kawi KLX250S
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaneO View Post
Im reading the liter bike shootout in sport rider magazine and they actually found the zx-10 number one over the bmw (2nd) of course they dont deny their love of the bmw either. I just wish they could test the ninja with the ecu unleashed then the horsepower figures would be a lot closer!
I just wish Kawasaki would step up and de-restrict the bike from the factory, they definitely have the capability to do so. If Kawi unrestricted the engine and dropped a tooth on the front sprocket or added a tooth or two the rear sprocket, they would probably win a lot more magazine comparisons and have a really great stock bike, but they refuse to do so, which seems to be standard operating procedure for the other Japanese motorcycle companies as well and one of the reasons I went with the BMW.

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Old 08-16-2012, 08:08 PM   #16
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Joined: Jun 2011
From: Yakima, WA

I Ride: 1199 Panigale
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaneO View Post
Im reading the liter bike shootout in sport rider magazine and they actually found the zx-10 number one over the bmw (2nd) of course they dont deny their love of the bmw either. I just wish they could test the ninja with the ecu unleashed then the horsepower figures would be a lot closer!
Read further, that's what I'm basing my info on. They found it second in street but first in track and first overall. Obviously rider has everything to do with wins but that's not the topic I am presenting. What I'm getting at is what is it that gives them the edge in power that the other manufacturers like Kawasaki can't reach? If others could bridge that gap they would be unstoppable because they have cornering more or less down to a science. Out of anyone I would think Kawasaki would present an outright powerbike that would top BMW.

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Old 08-16-2012, 08:19 PM   #17
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Joined: Jun 2011
From: Yakima, WA

I Ride: 1199 Panigale
Correction, first in street, second in track.

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Old 08-16-2012, 08:43 PM   #18
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Joined: Jun 2005
From: spokane

I Ride: Mille, kx250, kx500 SM, rd400, yz450
The Beemer is doing pretty good in the local club series as well

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Old 08-16-2012, 08:47 PM   #19
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Joined: Oct 2008
From: Kent

I Ride: lawnmower
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Avboden View Post
i've never seen any proof the 1199 puts down more crank horsepower.


As for your answer...I guess they worked on eliminating parasitic loss in the trans.

As for why the engine is so powerful, the answer is simple, the valve train.

good read

http://www.ashonbikes.com/content/bmw-s1000rr-valves
6 minutes that's gotta be some kind of record

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Old 08-16-2012, 08:57 PM   #20
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Joined: Apr 2011
From: Aloha-ish

I Ride: 05 636
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck View Post
Read further, that's what I'm basing my info on. They found it second in street but first in track and first overall. Obviously rider has everything to do with wins but that's not the topic I am presenting. What I'm getting at is what is it that gives them the edge in power that the other manufacturers like Kawasaki can't reach? If others could bridge that gap they would be unstoppable because they have cornering more or less down to a science. Out of anyone I would think Kawasaki would present an outright powerbike that would top BMW.
I know that I wasn't answering your exact question I was just putting out there about the ECU issue, regarding that I think I've heard that they had to do that for emissions reasons and that the european version has the full brunt. Now back to your question, I don't know why other manufactures aren't doing the exact BMW thing but thats why we have multiple manufacturers because if everyone made the same bike it would be boring. Sounds like from the magazine that they really like the ninjas traction control which nowadays seems to play a huge role in putting power down.

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