Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-01-2012, 07:52 PM   #21
Licensed
LostTheFront's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
From: Bellingham, WA

I Ride: 2007 CBR1000RR, 2006 WR450F
Not surprised at all that "speed" was the number one cause. It seems that the first statement that is issued after any accident, even when a left-turning car clearly caused the accident, is that "speed was a factor." That said, the current M/C testing is clearly a joke.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 

Old 09-01-2012, 07:56 PM   #22
Moderator
Texasl's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
From: Port Orchard, WA

I Ride: 2007 Moto Guzzi Norge, 1988 H-D (Project) Electra-Glide
The data in question comes from the WSP investigation reports, including extensive measurements at the crash scene, including point of impact, direction of travel before and after (if discernible). It is not a capricious determination of "speed was a factor". The investigators honestly want to get the true story so that effective policy can be crafted to help us stay alive. The riding community needs to stay engaged to ensure that the policy wonks do not try to come up with unworkable solutions.

As for the idea that people do not blow corners at posted speed, I have to disagree. I have seen many riders get through a speed limit corner merely by the skin of their teeth and pure stupid luck. The basic course is exactly that, basic. We need to get more involvement in advance training at the agency level. Conversations to that effect have been going on for some time, but there is a long way to go.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 09-01-2012, 08:07 PM   #23
Shredder
Locutus's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: here going there.

I Ride: because I can.
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Texasl View Post
... Conversations to that effect have been going on for some time, but there is a long way to go.
Oh? Where might these be found?

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 09-01-2012, 08:12 PM   #24
Novice Racer
Andy Capp's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2010
From: Marysville, WA

I Ride: 08 675, 72 XL250, 93 PW80, 80 GS250
Don't know which part is new. Looks exactly what I did at WMST in 04/10.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 09-01-2012, 08:13 PM   #25
Peg Dragger
Norainy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
From: Nehalem, Or

I Ride: cause I obey the voices in my head
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Tromatic View Post
Dunno. Never had any official interaction with them get that personal. Do you get cavity-searched often enough to have that discussion with them?

The point being that enough people are killing themselves and others on/with MC's that the Fudd's are starting to notice, and that's never a good thing. Being a rider is going to get very expensive before too long.
You have never had interaction with a police officer? Must ride a very slow bike slowly. Or you could elude, which is very cool brother

The rest of your posts pin you as a wannabe liberal, with the intellegence of a conservative

I find the fact that you are intrigued by a cavity search interesting Are you a stupid republican that doesn't know what that means or a lib that will kiss you after?

Which is it.

Me =

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 09-01-2012, 08:18 PM   #26
Permit
NickGEG's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2012
From: Spokane, WA

I Ride: Ninja 250
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by lena View Post
Hope that at least in WA they don't teach to never ever brake in the corner, like they did at my Team Oregon class and they screwed me up for the first year or two!
I took the MSC last spring here in WA. The instructor did say it was a bad idea to brake in corners, but he did spend about 15 seconds talking about the advanced method of 'trail braking' in corners. The class was nearly all experience riders and some vocalized that they had been using trail braking already on their bikes for years. I could see how it 'might' get a rider in trouble but I am a firm believer in using it when necessary.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 09-01-2012, 08:20 PM   #27
Banned Camp
 
Joined: Mar 2007
From: Seattle, WA
Blog Entries: 1

I Ride: BMW K1200GT, KTM 990 Adv, Ducati SF
What will save lives is re-instating the graduated, cc-displacement-based endorsements. Washington used to have this system and it worked.

The idea that a brand new rider is capable/allowed to operate a 170 hp bike the day after he receives his endorsement . . . ludicrous.

Same as . . .

Would we let a 16-year-old drive a 70-foot long, 80,000 lb semi-truck the day after he gets his driver's license?

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 09-01-2012, 09:03 PM   #28
Pit Crew
John02liter's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
From: Phoenix, AZ

I Ride: 05,06 GSX-R 600's
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDave View Post
What will save lives is re-instating the graduated, cc-displacement-based endorsements. Washington used to have this system and it worked.

The idea that a brand new rider is capable/allowed to operate a 170 hp bike the day after he receives his endorsement . . . ludicrous.

Same as . . .

Would we let a 16-year-old drive a 70-foot long, 80,000 lb semi-truck the day after he gets his driver's license?

A semi trailer? no... but a lamborghini? sure.. apples and cauliflower comparison

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 09-01-2012, 10:10 PM   #29
Streetfighter
Tromatic's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
From: Portland

I Ride: Yamaha Warrior
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Norainy View Post
You have never had interaction with a police officer? Must ride a very slow bike slowly. Or you could elude, which is very cool brother
I'm pretty sure this part was in english:
"Never had any official interaction with them get that personal."
The only speeding tickets I've ever gotten have been while in the car. I've been lucky on bikes and managed to either get off the hiway before the cop got turned around or the car nearest me got busted. The one time actually got pulled over on a bike the combination of .mil ID and funnel cloud behind us got me a pass.

“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Norainy View Post
The rest of your posts pin you as a wannabe liberal, with the intellegence of a conservative
Me =
Eat shit, I'm no Ron Paul supporter!

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

Last edited by Tromatic; 09-01-2012 at 10:14 PM..
 
Old 09-01-2012, 10:19 PM   #30
Peg Dragger
smokedu's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
From: T-town, Wa

I Ride: with O.P.R.T on some KTM's or a Kaw.
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
The safety classes, aimed at the test, only allow you to ride their 250's. Once you've passe their class, you get the endorsement. The class one of the guys at work took, his instructor hadn't ridden on the street in over 20 years.

In the end ... your going to have to learn how to ride - what ever bike you own - on your own.
This is not true, you can ride your own bike and take the test. But why would you want too? Same price and same endorsement. Ride their bike and have an easier time to pass the test.

From my understanding the State changed the testing to match the new MSF testing that is already in effect in other areas. I do not think it has to do with the recent rise in accidents or deaths.

Maybe someone could chime in? I know there are a lot of MSF instructors on this site.
Or call these people for the real deal.

http://www.pugetsoundsafety.com/

FWIW, I have done both recently and the new test is easier imho.

Derick

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 09-01-2012, 10:37 PM   #31
Moderator
lena's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
From: Portland, OR
Blog Entries: 1

I Ride: Monsters
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by NickGEG View Post
I took the MSC last spring here in WA. The instructor did say it was a bad idea to brake in corners, but he did spend about 15 seconds talking about the advanced method of 'trail braking' in corners. The class was nearly all experience riders and some vocalized that they had been using trail braking already on their bikes for years. I could see how it 'might' get a rider in trouble but I am a firm believer in using it when necessary.
And that's what I would expect. Don't teach it to brand new riders but do tell them about the possibility of trail braking, for pete's sake!

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 09-01-2012, 11:21 PM   #32
Streetfighter
Tromatic's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
From: Portland

I Ride: Yamaha Warrior
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by LostTheFront View Post
Not surprised at all that "speed" was the number one cause. It seems that the first statement that is issued after any accident, even when a left-turning car clearly caused the accident, is that "speed was a factor." That said, the current M/C testing is clearly a joke.
Same could be said for a car. Pass the written test, force yourself to turn of your cellphone for the driving test, pass. Drive home with your new license, texting your buddies all the way.

The real answer is always more personable responsibility. Stupid should hurt a lot more than it does, unless stupid hurts you so bad you are dead. Dunno what the answer is, but I'm sure 'gubmint will find a way to goon it up.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 09-02-2012, 03:29 AM   #33
Moderator
Texasl's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
From: Port Orchard, WA

I Ride: 2007 Moto Guzzi Norge, 1988 H-D (Project) Electra-Glide
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
Oh? Where might these be found?
For the most part they have been fairly informal conversations between the Washington Motorcycle Safety Program, the training contractors, and the Washington Motorcycle Safety and Education Advisory Board. If you don't wish to take my word for it talk to the folks at The Evergreen Safety Council, Pacific Northwest Motorcycle Safety, Puget Sound Safety, or Washington Motorcycle Safety Training.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 09-02-2012, 04:31 AM   #34
Endorsed
Dart's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
From: Dusty, Washington

I Ride: Triumph Sprint, KTM 530 EXC, 650GS
Like to know the stats behind the number new riders endorsed over the last 4 years compared to the previous 4. It seems to me that we have an increase in riders as a result of the increase in fuel, car, etc., prices. Stands to reason that statistically these numbers will go up. Experience is the key, how to get it can't be mandated. Example: Sign up with Swift and they will train you to drive a semi. Passing the written and knowing how to back into a dock...does not qualify you to make a run down the Lewiston grade weighing in a little over 100 K!

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 09-02-2012, 06:30 AM   #35
Shredder
Locutus's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: here going there.

I Ride: because I can.
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Texasl View Post
For the most part they have been fairly informal conversations between the Washington Motorcycle Safety Program, the training contractors, and the Washington Motorcycle Safety and Education Advisory Board. If you don't wish to take my word for it talk to the folks at The Evergreen Safety Council, Pacific Northwest Motorcycle Safety, Puget Sound Safety, or Washington Motorcycle Safety Training.
You misunderstand. I don't doubt your word at all. You've always been straight forward and back up what you put out. Not that at all. I want to know what the brains are up too. Specially if it is going to effect moi.


__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 09-02-2012, 06:48 AM   #36
Moderator
Texasl's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
From: Port Orchard, WA

I Ride: 2007 Moto Guzzi Norge, 1988 H-D (Project) Electra-Glide
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
You misunderstand. I don't doubt your word at all. You've always been straight forward and back up what you put out. Not that at all. I want to know what the brains are up too. Specially if it is going to effect moi.

I definitely appreciate your confidence in my veracity; I'll try not to let you down. Sorry about getting testy with you, I did misunderstand.

(I do note that you leave me out of the "brains department. Been talking to my wife? )

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 09-02-2012, 06:50 AM   #37
Shredder
Locutus's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: here going there.

I Ride: because I can.
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by smokedu View Post
This is not true, you can ride your own bike and take the test. But why would you want too? Same price and same endorsement. Ride their bike and have an easier time to pass the test.

From my understanding the State changed the testing to match the new MSF testing that is already in effect in other areas. I do not think it has to do with the recent rise in accidents or deaths.

Maybe someone could chime in? I know there are a lot of MSF instructors on this site.
Or call these people for the real deal.

http://www.pugetsoundsafety.com/

FWIW, I have done both recently and the new test is easier imho.

Derick
I stand corrected. However ...

Can I ride my own motorcycle during the BRC?

Yes. If your motorcycle meets all of the requirements of our training motorcycles and you have the necessary insurance you may be permitted to ride your own bike. However this is not common and should not be expected. Your bike will have to meet two of the following requirements as a minimum.

Unladen weight of 400lbs
500cc or less
30 inch maximum seat height

You MUST check with our office for more information and approval.


Source

There still are limitations. This doesn't do anything for anyone with a big bike.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 09-02-2012, 12:04 PM   #38
Peg Dragger
smokedu's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
From: T-town, Wa

I Ride: with O.P.R.T on some KTM's or a Kaw.
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
I stand corrected. However ...

Can I ride my own motorcycle during the BRC?

Yes. If your motorcycle meets all of the requirements of our training motorcycles and you have the necessary insurance you may be permitted to ride your own bike. However this is not common and should not be expected. Your bike will have to meet two of the following requirements as a minimum.

Unladen weight of 400lbs
500cc or less
30 inch maximum seat height

You MUST check with our office for more information and approval.


Source

There still are limitations. This doesn't do anything for anyone with a big bike.
I think you and I are talking semantics at this point from your original post. Maybe this chart will help other people? This is from the source you and I have already quoted.


You do not have to take any of these courses unless your under 18. However if you have already been riding with out an endorsement and you feel like you just want to take the test, (written and skills test) you can pay just to take those.
Here is the link from same source....

http://psslt.com/

I would highly recommend taking one of the full training courses to better understand the test and skills test but to each his/her own.

FWIW in my BRC they do teach a panic braking exercise in a corner. Trail braking was never mentioned. Apples and oranges again.

Derick

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 09-02-2012, 12:42 PM   #39
Railer
nsrg500's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2011
From: Everett. WA

I Ride: GS1150 Rat bike, NSR(G)500cc two stroke,CBR 900rr, 00 VFR800f
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteN95 View Post
It's the same reason we have such poor drivers, poor training and easy tests. If you've ever been to the UK or Germany you know the drivers and riders there are much better because the tests are much harder and the training more thorough. They also have graduated licensing which requires you ride a small bike for a period of time before being able to ride a larger more powerful bike.
I've always thought the stepped license would help.
Smaller bikes are more forgiving. Yes you can go 60 into a 25 mph corner, you can do that on anything.
I still think it's a good idea to have new riders on smaller bikes for a while.
If it were required? The manufactures would provide them. 250cc, 400cc, 600cc, 800cc, 1000+cc. Ego and peer pressure prevents most new riders from getting a small bike. (I started here in WA on a YSR and then on to a 600, not my first bikes, just how I got back into it after moving from LA)
I read a long time ago the reason they got rid of the stepped system here in WA was because of the Harley riders? The smallest bike they had at the time was a 888.

If you look at places like Japan? Most guys are on scooters or 125's and 250's because it's very hard and expensive to go any bigger. If you do go through the work/expense and years of riding to get a open class license? You are in fact a hard core rider.

Other countries have a HP/cc/age thing going. IDK the exact numbers but it's like 50cc or 10hp and it goes up from there. I don't know, it's something like that. I think you have to have the license for a certain amount of years before you can step up to the next one.

Just my worthless 2C.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 09-02-2012, 12:48 PM   #40
Shredder
Locutus's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: here going there.

I Ride: because I can.
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by smokedu View Post
I think you and I are talking semantics at this point from your original post. ...
Derick
Yes, more than likely. But ... I am referring to only getting the endorsement by means of a class offered (Not honing or upgrading ones skills.). In which case, that class is of limited value.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Reply

  PNW Riders > PNW Riders > Motorcycle Talk


Thread Tools
Display Modes



/pnwriders @pnwriders PNW Riders RSS Feed