braking

smonky · 09-09-2012, 08:58 PM

Im probably going to open a can of worms here but.....

So today a group of us are out riding in the hills. We get through a pretty technical section of road and find a good place to stop. We all park and get our helmets off and one of the group comes up to me and says "phew, your brake lights are throwing me off, im not used to it....". I asked for clarification on what exactly was being said. The reply "well the people we usually ride with dont ever use their brakes, they just ride through the corners smooth as can be without braking". I for one dont see how this is possible. riding without braking? does this mean coming up to a corner and downshifting until engine braking slows you down to a decent speed?

now. ive always been taught, shown, experienced and practice to brake up to a corner, adjust body position, look through the corner and as close to as you deem the apex being roll throttle on smoothly and power out of the corner, adjust body positioning again and drive. this is how its done on the track (for the most part). Yes i know the hills and back roads are not the track but the technique should still apply to a certain extent. last time i checked there is a reason why sportbikes have 300mm+ brake rotors, 4+ piston calipers (unless you ride a 250, but you get my point anyways) and fairly decent over sized brake master cylinders, you use them and you use them hard.

this isn't so much of a question as to who is right. I guess i just cant fathom riding at a moderate pace without braking. am i missing something here?

Runout · 09-09-2012, 09:05 PM

I suppose "moderate pace" is a relative term. If I'm in no hurry I can get through a twisty road without braking.

fastfoodfred · 09-09-2012, 09:15 PM

All I have to add is that master cylinders are not oversized and that I mostly only brake when I've misjudged and screwed up or right before hitting a deer.

tims007 · 09-09-2012, 09:37 PM

You need to google''riding the pace''... that will answer ALL your questions....

tims007 · 09-09-2012, 09:42 PM

http://m.motorcyclistonline.com/flas...nick_ienatsch/

Educate and enjoy..once you get used to it.. you will understand the awe that is fun lol

lilNinjaQT · 09-09-2012, 09:48 PM

ride your own ride ~ you didn't put anyone in danger.....your good.

TamiJean · 09-10-2012, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by lilninjaqt

ride your own ride ~ you didn't put anyone in danger.....your good.

mfrankpdx · 09-10-2012, 01:38 AM

I try not to brake when riding in the twisties. If I must, I do all my braking before I begin counter steering. If I find myself still on the brakes while I'm tipping the bike in, or as I'm cornering, then I simply slow down. I want to be on the throttle throughout the entire turn so the bike is settled, and my weight/traction in on that big hunk of meat rear tire. This is how I ride, regardless of who's behind or in front of me. When I don't ride like that, I crash (just ask the Portland section!).

Mrmat25 · 09-10-2012, 01:54 AM

Sounds like a good Tuesday night coffee topic.

Oh yeah look at the link Tim put up, it will explain much.

Originally Posted by tims007

http://m.motorcyclistonline.com/flas...nick_ienatsch/

Educate and enjoy..once you get used to it.. you will understand the awe that is fun lol

Stringcheese · 09-10-2012, 04:31 AM

On the street get your braking done before you tip in, there shouldn't be any need for trail braking on the street. When I do the route you guys did yesterday I play a little game with myself and try to touch the brakes as little as possible. Less brakes makes you more smooth. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Jason D · 09-10-2012, 05:42 AM

If you are riding with a group of people who dont use their brakes when they ride then I would just find a faster group of people to ride with! There are brakes on a bike for a reason just like a car. You dont go drive around in your car without using brakes do you? That would make for some slow commuting! Anyone who says "we dont use our brakes when we ride" probably isnt anyone I would want to have to wait up for anyhow.

And Im gueesing it was just someone trying to make you feal like a newb because they are such an experienced PNW Street Rider!

Transported · 09-10-2012, 06:55 AM

The faster you go, the more brake you need.

Runout · 09-10-2012, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Jason D

Anyone who says "we dont use our brakes when we ride" probably isnt anyone I would want to have to wait up for anyhow.

Anyone who says you should always be using your brake when you ride isn't anyone I would want to help pull their bike out of a ditch anyhow.

MOTOGPwannabe · 09-10-2012, 07:20 AM

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...13472902728241
anyways this guy here is like motorcycle jesus.....he strongly recommends brakes(even on the street)...
i trust him
watch the video.... it seems cheezy but its is 100% proven knowledge.... not opinion.... you ride YOUR PACE.... NOT THE PACE

Jason D · 09-10-2012, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Runout

Anyone who says you should always be using your brake when you ride isn't anyone I would want to help pull their bike out of a ditch anyhow.

I didnt say you should always be using your brakes, but fuck they are there for a reason.

And dont worry I wont be riding with you OR needing my bike pulled out of a ditch.

Runout · 09-10-2012, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Jason D

If you are riding with a group of people who dont use their brakes when they ride then I would just find a faster group of people to ride with!

Not worried in the least.

Just some commentary on reckless statements like this that encourage riders to go faster than their ability allows.

mikeames · 09-10-2012, 07:32 AM

Technically if you're not using your brakes into the corners you cold be going faster. Not that you necessarily should be or you're doing something wrong by not going faster....but generally if you're not braking then you have speed available that you're not using.
Watch racers...often people are passed by the other guy running into the corner hotter and braking later and harder.
I think when riding on the street you should stay within, or at least very close to your comfort level however.

Jason D · 09-10-2012, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Runout

Not worried in the least.

Just some commentary on stupid statements like this that encourage riders to go faster than their ability allows.

So telling someone they shouldnt be using their brakes is smarter then telling someone they should be using brakes?

You sir are a fucking idiot!

Runout · 09-10-2012, 07:45 AM

There's a difference between telling someone they need to be riding so fast they have to use their brakes and saying it's possible to ride at a speed where it's not necessary.

You should grow up a little bit. Measuring your e-penis is so 2011.

Stringcheese · 09-10-2012, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by mikeames

Technically if you're not using your brakes into the corners you cold be going faster. Not that you necessarily should be or you're doing something wrong by not going faster....but generally if you're not braking then you have speed available that you're not using.
Watch racers...often people are passed by the other guy running into the corner hotter and braking later and harder.
I think when riding on the street you should stay within, or at least very close to your comfort level however.

This. Riding on the street you don't want to be going 10/10. That's a disaster waiting to happen with all the unknowns around the next corner.


09-09-2012, 08:58 PM	#1
smonky Licensed Joined: May 2010 From: Vancouver WA I Ride: slow, according to Jenn	braking Im probably going to open a can of worms here but..... So today a group of us are out riding in the hills. We get through a pretty technical section of road and find a good place to stop. We all park and get our helmets off and one of the group comes up to me and says "phew, your brake lights are throwing me off, im not used to it....". I asked for clarification on what exactly was being said. The reply "well the people we usually ride with dont ever use their brakes, they just ride through the corners smooth as can be without braking". I for one dont see how this is possible. riding without braking? does this mean coming up to a corner and downshifting until engine braking slows you down to a decent speed? now. ive always been taught, shown, experienced and practice to brake up to a corner, adjust body position, look through the corner and as close to as you deem the apex being roll throttle on smoothly and power out of the corner, adjust body positioning again and drive. this is how its done on the track (for the most part). Yes i know the hills and back roads are not the track but the technique should still apply to a certain extent. last time i checked there is a reason why sportbikes have 300mm+ brake rotors, 4+ piston calipers (unless you ride a 250, but you get my point anyways) and fairly decent over sized brake master cylinders, you use them and you use them hard. this isn't so much of a question as to who is right. I guess i just cant fathom riding at a moderate pace without braking. am i missing something here? __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


09-09-2012, 09:05 PM	#2
Runout Race Qualifier Joined: Sep 2006 From: protesting at the mall I Ride: Aprilia	I suppose "moderate pace" is a relative term. If I'm in no hurry I can get through a twisty road without braking. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


09-09-2012, 09:15 PM	#3
fastfoodfred Moto2 Champion Joined: Mar 2006 From: spokane, wa I Ride: 2008 SXV4.5 + 1985 RZ350 + 2010 YZ250F +	All I have to add is that master cylinders are not oversized and that I mostly only brake when I've misjudged and screwed up or right before hitting a deer. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


09-09-2012, 09:37 PM	#4
tims007 Streetfighter Joined: Feb 2010 From: your moms basement I Ride: i ride bitchrider : a 2000 triumph sprint st and a xr 600r dual sport, and " das car"	You need to google''riding the pace''... that will answer ALL your questions.... __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


09-09-2012, 09:42 PM	#5
tims007 Streetfighter Joined: Feb 2010 From: your moms basement I Ride: i ride bitchrider : a 2000 triumph sprint st and a xr 600r dual sport, and " das car"	http://m.motorcyclistonline.com/flas...nick_ienatsch/ Educate and enjoy..once you get used to it.. you will understand the awe that is fun lol __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


09-09-2012, 09:48 PM	#6
lilNinjaQT Endorsed Joined: May 2010 From: Vancouver, Washington I Ride: Ninja 250	ride your own ride ~ you didn't put anyone in danger.....your good. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


09-10-2012, 01:38 AM	#8
mfrankpdx Retired Joined: Jul 2007 From: Washington DC I Ride: Speed Triple	I try not to brake when riding in the twisties. If I must, I do all my braking before I begin counter steering. If I find myself still on the brakes while I'm tipping the bike in, or as I'm cornering, then I simply slow down. I want to be on the throttle throughout the entire turn so the bike is settled, and my weight/traction in on that big hunk of meat rear tire. This is how I ride, regardless of who's behind or in front of me. When I don't ride like that, I crash (just ask the Portland section!). __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by mfrankpdx; 09-10-2012 at 01:41 AM..


09-10-2012, 04:31 AM	#10
Stringcheese Race Qualifier Joined: May 2008 From: Clarkinsas, WA I Ride: Whatever's next	On the street get your braking done before you tip in, there shouldn't be any need for trail braking on the street. When I do the route you guys did yesterday I play a little game with myself and try to touch the brakes as little as possible. Less brakes makes you more smooth. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


09-10-2012, 05:42 AM	#11
Jason D Streetfighter Joined: Oct 2009 From: Vancouver USA I Ride: one speed............	If you are riding with a group of people who dont use their brakes when they ride then I would just find a faster group of people to ride with! There are brakes on a bike for a reason just like a car. You dont go drive around in your car without using brakes do you? That would make for some slow commuting! Anyone who says "we dont use our brakes when we ride" probably isnt anyone I would want to have to wait up for anyhow. And Im gueesing it was just someone trying to make you feal like a newb because they are such an experienced PNW Street Rider! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


09-10-2012, 06:55 AM	#12
Transported Moto2 Contender Joined: Dec 2006 From: Portland, Oregon Blog Entries: 1 I Ride: '06 FZ1, '99 R1, '80 Suz GS450S	The faster you go, the more brake you need. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


09-10-2012, 07:20 AM	#14
MOTOGPwannabe Training Wheels Joined: Apr 2012 From: Port Angeles I Ride: 2010 R1 Vale' Edition, '86 GTR1000	http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...13472902728241 anyways this guy here is like motorcycle jesus.....he strongly recommends brakes(even on the street)... i trust him watch the video.... it seems cheezy but its is 100% proven knowledge.... not opinion.... you ride YOUR PACE.... NOT THE PACE __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by MOTOGPwannabe; 09-10-2012 at 07:24 AM..


09-10-2012, 07:32 AM	#17
mikeames Endorsed Joined: Jan 2011 From: Vancouver, WA I Ride: '82 Yamaha XJ1100J	Technically if you're not using your brakes into the corners you cold be going faster. Not that you necessarily should be or you're doing something wrong by not going faster....but generally if you're not braking then you have speed available that you're not using. Watch racers...often people are passed by the other guy running into the corner hotter and braking later and harder. I think when riding on the street you should stay within, or at least very close to your comfort level however. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


09-10-2012, 07:45 AM	#19
Runout Race Qualifier Joined: Sep 2006 From: protesting at the mall I Ride: Aprilia	There's a difference between telling someone they need to be riding so fast they have to use their brakes and saying it's possible to ride at a speed where it's not necessary. You should grow up a little bit. Measuring your e-penis is so 2011. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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