Italian vs Japanese - Page 3

DeeG · 10-12-2012, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Avboden

there's only 2 things that'll be alive after a nuclear explosion. Cochroaches and Guzzi's.

That's good to know.

Originally Posted by Avboden

If you can find one, a mid 2000's V11 Cafe Sport from guzzi is an absolutely bitching bike. Top spec, very fun. My brother has one. Good choice if you want to go used, if you can find one that is, pretty rare.

We've got one of these:

Same as the other one, but all in matte black and carbon. They call this one a Scura. When the spouse came back from his test ride, he had the biggest shit eating grin on his face. Says to me, "Did you know, that when you shift into 4th at 95 mph, the front wheel comes up off the ground?".

NoQuarter#121 · 10-12-2012, 10:48 PM

My opinion is thus;

I own many bikes, I have owned many more.

Italian bikes are more reliable than people who have never owned them think.
They are actually very reliable.

To a point.

I currently own 2 street legal Italian motorcycles.
I doubt I will ever sell them.
Italian twins are the most enjoyable street bikes in every sense.
They look the best on the curb, under a street light.
They look the best in the sun.
They sound great.
They are a freaking blast to ride on the street or the track.

I ride twins on the street.

I race Japaneese inlines.
They are easier and faster.
The best competition rides inlines.

so, there you go.

shelbyguy · 10-13-2012, 02:12 AM

Originally Posted by NoQuarter#121

My opinion is thus;

I own many bikes, I have owned many more.

Italian bikes are more reliable than people who have never owned them think.
They are actually very reliable.

To a point.

I currently own 2 street legal Italian motorcycles.
I doubt I will ever sell them.
Italian twins are the most enjoyable street bikes in every sense.
They look the best on the curb, under a street light.
They look the best in the sun.
They sound great.
They are a freaking blast to ride on the street or the track.

I ride twins on the street.

I race Japaneese inlines.
They are easier and faster.
The best competition rides inlines.

so, there you go.

this

CBR Dave Ingraham · 10-13-2012, 05:27 AM

Like he said, inline 4s are for the track, my aprilia tuono is for the street. I just wish it didnt take me 100,000m and a few inline 4s to figure it out.

RedVFR · 10-13-2012, 06:47 AM

Interesting thread so far. I'm not really a Duc fan, but seriously, there's nothing quite like the booming exhaust note of a Duc with a decent exhaust system on it.

Having said that, the R1 with the crossplane engine has just as sweet a sound with the right exhaust on it, and the performance aspect is undeniable. The first time I heard one of the new gen R1's with a full system, I would have laid money on it being a V4. I thought it was a VFR on steroids at first, not being able to see the bike that was making all that beautiful noise.

And speaking of V4's, that brings me to Aprilia. Why not consider an RSV4? Biaggi seems to be able to rule WSBK on his. I have noticed, though, that those that like Duc's aren't really Ape fans, and vice versa.

Personally, Triumph and Aprilia are my two favorite Euro brands. The one ride I took on a Daytona 675, left me with a permanent case of lust for triples. That Daytona fit me very nicely, too. It had sportbike ergos I could live with, and what an exhaust song! Having owned a VFR for six years, I would love to ride an RSV4 someday. I love the characteristics of the V4, and the RSV4 seems to have all the good ones in spades, and love the looks. Pretty nicely equipped, too.

bcj · 10-13-2012, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by cletus

but this German with all of her electric toys has been catching my eye from time to time and this Austrian….don’t get me started on her. Oh so schön!

"Welcome to the First Church of Applientology! (The white zone is for loading and unloading only)"

_Joe's Garage_

Avboden · 10-13-2012, 07:51 AM

One other thing to consider....why the 1199? For the money, it got trounced in every superbike shootout this year. On the street all of them found the BMW, the Ape, and sometimes Honda better. On the track the Duc was usually in the lower half and sometimes even lower than KTM.

I'm a utilitarian I guess, why spend way more money on a inferior bike? As much as ducati, and ducati fans hate to admit it, the 1199 underperforms.

Jims08Z06 · 10-13-2012, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by cletus

I’ve got experience with both. Here’s my $.02

Italians are temperamental. Owning one is like marrying a dead sexy dominatrix. They are stunningly beautiful, walk on the wild side, and the ride…. oooh the ride. Così eccitante! To hear that deep rumble at full song is incredible. However, they are used to getting their own way. They’ll force you to into all sorts of painful and uncomfortable positions – but you’ll probably learn to like it. They’ll love expensive things and demand to be pampered. They also demand that you look the part if you’re going to be seen with them. Of course, if you neglect them or refuse to say “yes mistress” when they speak, they’ll punish you.

I of course left my Italian girl behind, but there are times when I still long for her. Would I get another….hell yeah!

Japanese are the like the girl next door. If I learned one thing in my advanced age, it’s that you should never overlook the quiet ones. I’ve got a ménage going with a Suzuki and a Yamaha and loving every second of it. They voices aren’t deep and husky, but when you really get em going, they scream. The sound is so good, you want to hear it again and again. Unlike their Italian cousins, they’re up for anything anytime. They could care less what I’m wearing, and if I overlook them now and again, they never hold it against me. Whatever I want, whenever I want it, however I want it, they’re always up for it.

Would I ever leave them behind? I’m having the time of my life right now, but this German with all of her electric toys has been catching my eye from time to time and this Austrian….don’t get me started on her. Oh so schön!

Please don't take this wrong, as I got a smile while reading your explanation. You wouldn't be speaking from experience would you? PS You could also post a pic or your "Girl" maybe; Please and Thank You...AJ

Originally Posted by Texas

Congratulations. After only 5 posts you have managed to offend someone's tender sensibilities.
You just may have a great future here. :Green:

...AJ

KNanthrup · 10-13-2012, 02:26 PM

Terrible list to choose from. Sexy? Italian. Functional and fast? Japanese

Suncountry · 10-13-2012, 03:17 PM

I just sold my Monster S2R 800 and during my ownership had zero problems. I'm still

why I let it go. It was a great around town bike. Loved the lumpy idle and torque out of the hole. My short list this coming spring is the Monster 1100 EVO, Tiger 800 or if it appears the Multi 820. The only reason the Monster is in the running is because I liked the S2R sooo much.

cletus · 10-13-2012, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Jims08Z06

Please don't take this wrong, as I got a smile while reading your explanation. You wouldn't be speaking from experience would you? PS You could also post a pic or your "Girl" maybe; Please and Thank You...AJ

...AJ

LOL....motorcycles or women? I get them confused sometimes.

Jims08Z06 · 10-13-2012, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by cletus

LOL....motorcycles or women? I get them confused sometimes.

I can't answer that on the grounds, it could incriminate myself...AJ

tyrklnr · 10-14-2012, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Wyckedan

Aprilia RSV4 Factory. Handles like a 600, fine Italian craftsmanship, top quality parts. That'd be my current bike of choice if I got to buy a new bike.

this. funny how ducscame up but not aprilia? hmmmmmm

Duck · 10-14-2012, 08:29 AM

How can you say that the 1199 underperforms? They are designed for the track and designed to be set up for the track. How about we wait until WSBK next year and then judge them. Also remember that the 1199 is brand new and The BMW and other competetors are older designs that have had many years to tune in.

Avboden · 10-14-2012, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Duck

How can you say that the 1199 underperforms? They are designed for the track and designed to be set up for the track. How about we wait until WSBK next year and then judge them. Also remember that the 1199 is brand new and The BMW and other competetors are older designs that have had many years to tune in.

I'm not saying it isn't an incredible bike, but ducati said it would be the most powerful, the fastest, etc etc. It's not even close to the fastest lap times on all the shootout tests, and its power isn't even close to the kawi and BMW. It's nowhere near what was promised. Yes, should be interesting to see in WSBK, it was decently successful in superstock, though Kawi and BMW still beat it in the overall standings.

I don't buy that it's brand new and the others are older designs. Ducati lives and breathes sportbikes. BMW and Aprilia were both able to come out with winning bikes right off the back (maybe not in WSBK, but in real world tests and superstock categories). Ducati should be able to hit it out of the ballpark with a brand new bike, the fact is, they didn't.

Is it an amazing bike? Yes! Is it better than an S1000RR, or RSV4? not even close. Now with the Hp4 BMW and the APRC RSV4 the ducati doesn't even have the most toys.

Plus, an extra 200cc is still cheating :-P and it's not even enough to catch up power wise.

FlyingFinn · 10-14-2012, 09:31 AM

Singles and Twins for the street .. You can ride a motorcycle with soul or a sowing machine ..

Duck · 10-14-2012, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Avboden

I'm not saying it isn't an incredible bike, but ducati said it would be the most powerful, the fastest, etc etc. It's not even close to the fastest lap times on all the shootout tests, and its power isn't even close to the kawi and BMW. It's nowhere near what was promised. Yes, should be interesting to see in WSBK, it was decently successful in superstock, though Kawi and BMW still beat it in the overall standings.

I don't buy that it's brand new and the others are older designs. Ducati lives and breathes sportbikes. BMW and Aprilia were both able to come out with winning bikes right off the back (maybe not in WSBK, but in real world tests and superstock categories). Ducati should be able to hit it out of the ballpark with a brand new bike, the fact is, they didn't.

Is it an amazing bike? Yes! Is it better than an S1000RR, or RSV4? not even close. Now with the Hp4 BMW and the APRC RSV4 the ducati doesn't even have the most toys.

Plus, an extra 200cc is still cheating :-P and it's not even enough to catch up power wise.

BMW and Kawasaki both are using designs that have been perfected over many years and both designs were mid field bikes when they first came out. Very rarely does a company hit on a design that is successful in its first year. And the goal is competition so 200 extra CCs on a twin and 100 on a triple is not cheating, it merely levels the field. If you don't like different displacements then watch GP and don't bother with SBK.

shelbyguy · 10-14-2012, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Avboden

I'm not saying it isn't an incredible bike, but ducati said it would be the most powerful, the fastest, etc etc. It's not even close to the fastest lap times on all the shootout tests, and its power isn't even close to the kawi and BMW. It's nowhere near what was promised. Yes, should be interesting to see in WSBK, it was decently successful in superstock, though Kawi and BMW still beat it in the overall standings.

I don't buy that it's brand new and the others are older designs. Ducati lives and breathes sportbikes. BMW and Aprilia were both able to come out with winning bikes right off the back (maybe not in WSBK, but in real world tests and superstock categories). Ducati should be able to hit it out of the ballpark with a brand new bike, the fact is, they didn't.

Is it an amazing bike? Yes! Is it better than an S1000RR, or RSV4? not even close. Now with the Hp4 BMW and the APRC RSV4 the ducati doesn't even have the most toys.

Plus, an extra 200cc is still cheating :-P and it's not even enough to catch up power wise.

hate to say it, but Av has made a few solid points

Furious Coder · 10-14-2012, 10:46 AM

My Guzzi is for the street. My Daytona is for the track. Mostly.

Interesting that the former Axis forces are the leaders in motorcycle tech.

DullJack · 10-14-2012, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Furious Coder

Interesting that the former Axis forces are the leaders in motorcycle tech.

I was watching an interview w/ a Japanese engineer sometime ago, and he made an interesting point. He said after WWII, they weren't allowed to build any kind of vehicle that could be used for war...like airplanes, so their best engineers went into things like cars, and later, into motorcycles. Might explain why the Axis powers have come to excel at these things...Namely the Italians, Germans, Austrians, and the Japanese.

Incidentally, dealing with Ducati specifically: I think a lot of their problems stem from they are constantly trying something new. The 1098 came out in 2007 with a whole new engine, new frame, new everything. This year the 1199 came out, also new engine, new frame, new everything. In the intervening years, they also came out w/ the new Multi, 848, 1198, Diavel, and Hyper. All using new technologies. And I imagine in another 5 years, we'll see a whole new generation of bikes, using all new technology. I think this is both the blessing and curse of Ducati. They are always pushing the envelope and trying something new, but they don't have their products around long enough to really fine tune and tweak them. Unlike the Japanese bikes, like the R, GSXR, ZX, and CBR series, which is the same basic platform with updated technology in line with advancements and customer demands.

View Poll Results: Which is sexier, Italians or Japanese
Ducati Hypermotard	14	9.86%
Ducati Monster	17	11.97%
Ducati 1199	67	47.18%
Yamaha R1	23	16.20%
Moto Guzzi	21	14.79%
Voters: 142. You may not vote on this poll


10-12-2012, 10:48 PM	#42
NoQuarter#121 Knee Dragger Joined: Sep 2007 From: 2nd star to the right and straight on 'til morning I Ride: on ice at 15F below zero. GO ICEHOLES!!!	My opinion is thus; I own many bikes, I have owned many more. Italian bikes are more reliable than people who have never owned them think. They are actually very reliable. To a point. I currently own 2 street legal Italian motorcycles. I doubt I will ever sell them. Italian twins are the most enjoyable street bikes in every sense. They look the best on the curb, under a street light. They look the best in the sun. They sound great. They are a freaking blast to ride on the street or the track. I ride twins on the street. I race Japaneese inlines. They are easier and faster. The best competition rides inlines. so, there you go. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


10-13-2012, 05:27 AM	#44
CBR Dave Ingraham Pit Crew Joined: Feb 2010 From: Peshastin Washington I Ride: 07' Aprilia Tuono, 09' cbr 600 track bike	Like he said, inline 4s are for the track, my aprilia tuono is for the street. I just wish it didnt take me 100,000m and a few inline 4s to figure it out. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


10-13-2012, 06:47 AM	#45
RedVFR Fast, Easy, and Old Fashioned Joined: Sep 2006 From: Spokane I Ride: DR650	Interesting thread so far. I'm not really a Duc fan, but seriously, there's nothing quite like the booming exhaust note of a Duc with a decent exhaust system on it. Having said that, the R1 with the crossplane engine has just as sweet a sound with the right exhaust on it, and the performance aspect is undeniable. The first time I heard one of the new gen R1's with a full system, I would have laid money on it being a V4. I thought it was a VFR on steroids at first, not being able to see the bike that was making all that beautiful noise. And speaking of V4's, that brings me to Aprilia. Why not consider an RSV4? Biaggi seems to be able to rule WSBK on his. I have noticed, though, that those that like Duc's aren't really Ape fans, and vice versa. Personally, Triumph and Aprilia are my two favorite Euro brands. The one ride I took on a Daytona 675, left me with a permanent case of lust for triples. That Daytona fit me very nicely, too. It had sportbike ergos I could live with, and what an exhaust song! Having owned a VFR for six years, I would love to ride an RSV4 someday. I love the characteristics of the V4, and the RSV4 seems to have all the good ones in spades, and love the looks. Pretty nicely equipped, too. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by RedVFR; 10-13-2012 at 07:52 AM..


10-13-2012, 07:51 AM	#47
Avboden Moto2 Contender Joined: Oct 2007 From: from Wa, living on Grenada (island) I Ride: 2007 BMW F800S, 1999 ATK 605 ESDS/SM	One other thing to consider....why the 1199? For the money, it got trounced in every superbike shootout this year. On the street all of them found the BMW, the Ape, and sometimes Honda better. On the track the Duc was usually in the lower half and sometimes even lower than KTM. I'm a utilitarian I guess, why spend way more money on a inferior bike? As much as ducati, and ducati fans hate to admit it, the 1199 underperforms. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


10-13-2012, 02:26 PM	#49
KNanthrup Shredder Joined: Jul 2008 From: Issaquah, WA I Ride: '09 CBR1000RR. '95 R1100GS	Terrible list to choose from. Sexy? Italian. Functional and fast? Japanese __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


10-13-2012, 03:17 PM	#50
Suncountry Endorsed Joined: Jan 2010 From: Moses Lake I Ride: 1973 Honda CB350 Custom Cafe, 06 Ducati Monster S2R 800	I just sold my Monster S2R 800 and during my ownership had zero problems. I'm still why I let it go. It was a great around town bike. Loved the lumpy idle and torque out of the hole. My short list this coming spring is the Monster 1100 EVO, Tiger 800 or if it appears the Multi 820. The only reason the Monster is in the running is because I liked the S2R sooo much. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


10-14-2012, 08:29 AM	#54
Duck Licensed Joined: Jun 2011 From: Yakima, WA I Ride: 1199 Panigale	How can you say that the 1199 underperforms? They are designed for the track and designed to be set up for the track. How about we wait until WSBK next year and then judge them. Also remember that the 1199 is brand new and The BMW and other competetors are older designs that have had many years to tune in. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


10-14-2012, 09:31 AM	#56
FlyingFinn Endorsed Joined: Jul 2010 From: Ole' Tacoma I Ride: Guzzi Norge, HD FXRP	Singles and Twins for the street .. You can ride a motorcycle with soul or a sowing machine .. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


10-14-2012, 10:46 AM	#59
Furious Coder Peg Dragger Joined: Apr 2010 From: Seattle, WA I Ride: 2012 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer, 2009 Triumph Daytona 675	My Guzzi is for the street. My Daytona is for the track. Mostly. Interesting that the former Axis forces are the leaders in motorcycle tech. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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