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Old 10-16-2012, 05:50 PM   #1
fmx
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MSF written exam = permit?
Hi everyone,

I'm taking the new revised MSF course that includes a written and skills test which gives you a motorcycle endorsement. My question is, if you pass the written test - does that entitle you to a permit (assuming the skills test is failed)? I asked the MSF instructor today and he got really weird, defensive and and didn't give a meaningful answer...

Thanks.

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Old 10-16-2012, 05:53 PM   #2
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Don't fail the skills test and get your license. And if all else fails, consult the authority. Washington State DOL -- Motorcycle License and Permitt

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Old 10-16-2012, 05:53 PM   #3
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are you doing this in washington or oregon? .. oregon just go get the permit from your local dmv. then when your ready ..... take the driving test and be done with it

msf cource fail no permit or licence .. so its a pick and chose your path not both .. well you can do both but its more expensive

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Old 10-16-2012, 06:02 PM   #4
fmx
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I'm doing it in WA. I feel confident in my skills (and I passed the written part today), but between the craptastic bike they assigned me and the coach having it out for me, I'm not feeling good about tomorrow.

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Old 10-16-2012, 06:13 PM   #5
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Kind of what tims007 said.

Even though the test is the same for both MSF riders and off the street riders, there is a line between the MSF course and the off the street rider.

You take the MSF course and successfully complete both the written and the skills test, you get a completion card, and you can get your endorsement added to your license. Fail either one, you don't. Some schools give you a second chance at the test(s), some do not.

If you choose to take the off the street option (3rd Party) you take the knowledge test, pass it, get your permit. Ride for a while, take the skills test. Pass that, you get your green sheet that tells DOL they can add your endorsement.

It is not up to the instructor whether or not you can get your permit through the knowledge test given in class. It is up to the site sponsor, who is your instructors boss.

Do well in class, pass both tests and you have nothing to worry about. If you fail either one, the policies of the sponsor will determine what your options are.

Dusty

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Old 10-16-2012, 06:17 PM   #6
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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by fmx View Post
I'm doing it in WA. I feel confident in my skills (and I passed the written part today), but between the craptastic bike they assigned me and the coach having it out for me, I'm not feeling good about tomorrow.
Sounds like someone is finding excuses to explain failure......

Dusty

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Old 10-16-2012, 06:26 PM   #7
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Joined: Feb 2010
From: your moms basement

I Ride: i ride bitchrider : a 2000 triumph sprint st a 99 triumph tiger and " das car"
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by fmx View Post
I'm doing it in WA. I feel confident in my skills (and I passed the written part today), but between the craptastic bike they assigned me and the coach having it out for me, I'm not feeling good about tomorrow.
do me a favor .. go get your permit...... then take your bike adn just ride around your home area like the block .. if you have a culdisak then do some figure eights .. or take the bike in a trailer or truck and go to the industrial area near you that has a open lot and go learn how to ride for a few hours.. you will get the hang of things.. and then soon you will drive further and furthure.. just drive the bike liek a car nice and slow round the corners... then as you progress in your riding skills you will eventualy be riding the bike like the dr lol

thats my sugestion .. but it all depends on YOUR confidence and learning skills

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Old 10-16-2012, 06:28 PM   #8
fmx
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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Guy View Post
Sounds like someone is finding excuses to explain failure......

Dusty
That's a little harsh and hardly encouraging. I was running laps around everyone and the instructor was using me to do demonstrations. It was at the end of today that I had to do a cone weave (a ton of cones and placed crazy close together) and they wanted us to go fast. My bike is beat to hell, the clutch is about dead and it bucks like crazy.

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Old 10-16-2012, 06:31 PM   #9
fmx
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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Guy View Post
Kind of what tims007 said.

Even though the test is the same for both MSF riders and off the street riders, there is a line between the MSF course and the off the street rider.

You take the MSF course and successfully complete both the written and the skills test, you get a completion card, and you can get your endorsement added to your license. Fail either one, you don't. Some schools give you a second chance at the test(s), some do not.

If you choose to take the off the street option (3rd Party) you take the knowledge test, pass it, get your permit. Ride for a while, take the skills test. Pass that, you get your green sheet that tells DOL they can add your endorsement.

It is not up to the instructor whether or not you can get your permit through the knowledge test given in class. It is up to the site sponsor, who is your instructors boss.

Do well in class, pass both tests and you have nothing to worry about. If you fail either one, the policies of the sponsor will determine what your options are.

Dusty
Thanks for the info. I guess I'll just have to ask around if I do get failed. There's only one DOL left in Washington state to do the testing on-site (everywhere else sends you to MSF and they actually pay for half of it for residents), but that place is on the other side of the state. Oh and I did find out my MSF allows for a free retrial within a week.

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Old 10-16-2012, 06:34 PM   #10
fmx
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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by tims007 View Post
do me a favor .. go get your permit...... then take your bike adn just ride around your home area like the block .. if you have a culdisak then do some figure eights .. or take the bike in a trailer or truck and go to the industrial area near you that has a open lot and go learn how to ride for a few hours.. you will get the hang of things.. and then soon you will drive further and furthure.. just drive the bike liek a car nice and slow round the corners... then as you progress in your riding skills you will eventualy be riding the bike like the dr lol

thats my sugestion .. but it all depends on YOUR confidence and learning skills
Thanks. I did ride while in Europe for about a year (but that was a decade ago). I am comfortable on a bike and I know I will ace everything apart from the weaving if the cones are that close together. I dunno, maybe I can request a different bike for that part of it.

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Old 10-16-2012, 06:46 PM   #11
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Joined: Feb 2010
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I Ride: i ride bitchrider : a 2000 triumph sprint st a 99 triumph tiger and " das car"
well there ya go .. get the permit and then go do a test .. call vncouver see if they still offer ride tests or if they are farming them out

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Old 10-16-2012, 07:43 PM   #12
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From: Shoreline, WA

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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by fmx View Post
That's a little harsh and hardly encouraging. I was running laps around everyone and the instructor was using me to do demonstrations. It was at the end of today that I had to do a cone weave (a ton of cones and placed crazy close together) and they wanted us to go fast. My bike is beat to hell, the clutch is about dead and it bucks like crazy.
Get there early tomorrow and hop on a different bike.

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Old 10-16-2012, 07:56 PM   #13
fmx
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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashex View Post
Get there early tomorrow and hop on a different bike.
That wouldn't fly since the riding portion is over just two days and they want everyone accustomed to how their bikes ride. Not to mention I didn't even get a choice even though I was the second to arrive - it was the highest bike and I'm the tallest person there, ugh.

I'll report back tomorrow ...with some of this or this ... Please send some good vibes my way!

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Old 10-16-2012, 08:00 PM   #14
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Pretty screwy, the Wa. DOL moto-endorsement requirement now. My S.O. has been riding bikes for years, mostly dirtbikes and dual sport. We recently got her a CBR 600 after I sold my second bike that she was riding (sssshhhh, without an endorsement...shhh..)

I talked her into taking a Reg Pridmore Class at ORP...and it really helped her confidence in the corners. Made it more fun to ride with her on the highways and canyons...One of Pridmore's requirments was a moto-endorsement on your license, so she went in to get it and was told she would have to take a school of some sort....But a day with Reg Pridmore at a racetrack, where they instructed the learning riders on all kinds of bike handling skills....that was not enough...She has to pay someone to teach her to ride around cones now to complete the license.....

Any Granny or Grampy can just climb into a 60' 15ton diesel motorcoach, pulling a Lexus or a humvee behind and tool off down the public road with no special skills or endorsement....but heaven forbid you should ride a 3-4 hundred lb motorcycle without going to school and being tested.... Weird...

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Old 10-16-2012, 08:04 PM   #15
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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by fmx View Post
That wouldn't fly since the riding portion is over just two days and they want everyone accustomed to how their bikes ride. Not to mention I didn't even get a choice even though I was the second to arrive - it was the highest bike and I'm the tallest person there, ugh.

I'll report back tomorrow ...with some of this or this ... Please send some good vibes my way!
They give you a bike of their choice to test on? You don't ride the bike you own? I'd probably have a really hard time on a full dresser Harley and I am sure a Harley rider woudn't do very well on my sport bikes. Weird.

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Old 10-16-2012, 08:29 PM   #16
fmx
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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnarly 928 View Post
Pretty screwy, the Wa. DOL moto-endorsement requirement now. My S.O. has been riding bikes for years, mostly dirtbikes and dual sport. We recently got her a CBR 600 after I sold my second bike that she was riding (sssshhhh, without an endorsement...shhh..)

I talked her into taking a Reg Pridmore Class at ORP...and it really helped her confidence in the corners. Made it more fun to ride with her on the highways and canyons...One of Pridmore's requirments was a moto-endorsement on your license, so she went in to get it and was told she would have to take a school of some sort....But a day with Reg Pridmore at a racetrack, where they instructed the learning riders on all kinds of bike handling skills....that was not enough...She has to pay someone to teach her to ride around cones now to complete the license.....

Any Granny or Grampy can just climb into a 60' 15ton diesel motorcoach, pulling a Lexus or a humvee behind and tool off down the public road with no special skills or endorsement....but heaven forbid you should ride a 3-4 hundred lb motorcycle without going to school and being tested.... Weird...
It really sucks, not much else to say about it. I am for safety...but your point about other vehicles any old shmuck can drive is right on the money. Shouldn't they be worried about vehicles you can do more damage to OTHER people with rather than yourself? Anyway, WA/MSF is on a completely revised curriculum as of a few months ago. Apparently the DOL was displeased with how many people were passing. I only got 1 out of 25 questions wrong on the written, but I swear they were thought up just to screw with your head and test your ability to solve riddles. Ridiculous. Anyways, apparently the rest of the country will be following suit with the revised exams in the near future (so if you're reading this and you're not in WA, do your test now).

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Old 10-16-2012, 08:30 PM   #17
fmx
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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnarly 928 View Post
They give you a bike of their choice to test on? You don't ride the bike you own? I'd probably have a really hard time on a full dresser Harley and I am sure a Harley rider woudn't do very well on my sport bikes. Weird.
You can, but you need to have a permit in order to do it - and considering this class includes the written exams, nobody has one. I used to ride on a Honda Shadow. Now they have me riding a piece of shit dual sport from the 90's.

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Old 10-17-2012, 06:02 PM   #18
fmx
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Passed the skills test, got 100%! Hauled ass to the DMV and got the endorsement in fine print! Woohoo!

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Old 10-17-2012, 06:39 PM   #19
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From: Port Orchard, WA

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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by fmx View Post
Passed the skills test, got 100%! Hauled ass to the DMV and got the endorsement in fine print! Woohoo!
Congratulations. Not to denigrate your passing, but that means that you have demonstrated enough knowledge and skill to not die while you continue to learn.

“ Quote:
Originally Posted by fmx View Post

Anyway, WA/MSF is on a completely revised curriculum as of a few months ago. Apparently the DOL was displeased with how many people were passing. I only got 1 out of 25 questions wrong on the written, but I swear they were thought up just to screw with your head and test your ability to solve riddles. Ridiculous. Anyways, apparently the rest of the country will be following suit with the revised exams in the near future (so if you're reading this and you're not in WA, do your test now).
You are way off the mark on the reasoning for the curriculum. It was adjusted to address the primary cause of single motorcycle crashes and deaths, which is improper cornering. I have not seen the new test battery, but the questions very well may be designed to test a candidate's ability to intuit the proper answer based on their knowledge.

I would appreciate you sending me a PM to give me more information about the WMSP contractor you took the class with and the condition of the motorcycle. (I sit on the advisory board)

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Old 10-17-2012, 06:47 PM   #20
fmx
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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Texasl View Post
Congratulations. Not to denigrate your passing, but that means that you have demonstrated enough knowledge and skill to not die while you continue to learn.
Thanks! I'm almost 29 and I entered my more cautious approach to life quite some time ago. I'm very much with you on this only being the beginning. I may very well take another course with them once I have a new bike. I'm all for a vigorous test, but I didn't think the riddle-style questions were at all necessary. I'll pm ya.

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