Interesting BMW fact I heard

mcjunky · 12-31-2008, 03:23 PM

At an iron butt rally bmw had a failure rate of 27% on their final drives

Over 1/4 either caught fire, broke or seized up!!!!!!!

MichelinMan · 12-31-2008, 03:25 PM

Care to share your source? I'd be interested to read it.

More importantly, I hear 32% of people from Spokane like to make up second-hand statistics without anything to back them up.

james1300 · 12-31-2008, 03:47 PM

The membership Sec.of BMWMOA (the national club) had a catastrophic failure.
I hear its in the clubs news letter. The failure rate is documented in Motorcycle Consumer News as well.
BMW on the otherhand, refuses to acknowledge they have a problem.
Much like the F.I. surge problems the early USA model oil heads have.
BMW didnt even bother with us, by not showing up to IMS this year.

Ryanthegreat1 · 12-31-2008, 03:52 PM

Sounds like a product I would like to buy!

K2TheM · 12-31-2008, 03:56 PM

It's probably the ones with the Shaft drive.

I'm not for sure, but I think the bushings or bearings in there are made out of some rubber compound or something that gets weak when used for long periods at a time.

james1300 · 12-31-2008, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by K2TheM

It's probably the ones with the Shaft drive.

I'm not for sure, but I think the bushings or bearings in there are made out of some rubber compound or something that gets weak when used for long periods at a time.

It IS the shaft drive models that are failing. Part of the problem is its a SEALED final unit. No way to change or check the final drive after the initional 600 mile service. They want you to ride 100,000 miles then change the final gear lube.

MichelinMan · 12-31-2008, 04:14 PM

All joking aside... is there an article or something that can be shared? I'd truly like to read it.

Avboden · 12-31-2008, 04:19 PM

bullshit

if you do normal service, change the final drive fluid (it isn't hard to do yourself) you are golden. I've never seen or heard (besides the internet) of anyone who's had a failure and I know a lot of BMW riders.

don't diss the shaft till you've tried it, take a test ride on a K1200 sometime

Dragon Rider · 12-31-2008, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Ryanthegreat1

Sounds like a product I would like to buy!

yea, I was hot on the F650, but needed Carbed, or dual spark (when BMW finally fixed the "non existant" surging problem)

I've never had a BMW, despite my offer to PMC on an dual spark F650, but with all of this info, I'm kinda thinking any BMW I got it would have to be old school

ie R80GS

or R90

Can't complain much about PMC turning down my 8K offer, I got a 3K transalp

mcjunky · 12-31-2008, 04:47 PM

Av - do a little searching and you will find alot of failures, google iron butt rally final drive failures and it may open your eyes. The system is junk and beemer has pulled the wool over your eyes

One instant was a iron butt group meeting where they asked the beemer crowd to raise their hands if they had a failure and over half had had the final drive go tits up.

Michelin - check out Motorcycle consumer news september edition, that is not where I heard it although it is documented there as well. My source was a pissed off bmw rider who had his fail in s. dakota mid trip, he also does iba. After a little research I found all sorts of horror stories. And I understand you westsiders being jelous of spokane.... the west side is little wannabe cali

Dave R · 12-31-2008, 05:16 PM

from http://www.bmw-k.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9427

Limited summary:

- BMW uses two different final drive systems: the older Paralever design, which is still used on the K1200LT, and the 2nd-generation "EVO" Paralever, introduced in 2004 and, used on most current bikes. EVO design is easily identified by the 50mm hole in the rear axle.
- From 1980 to 2000, BMW final drive failures were rare
- Starting in 2001 an increasing number of final drive failures started appearing on K1200LT and R1150GS models
- Most of those were on 1st generation Paralever bikes, although some were on EVO Paralever bikes.
- Of 38 Paralever-equipped BMWs in the 2007 Iron Butt Rally, 14 were R1200 EVO models. Of these four didn't finish due to final drive failure -- a 29% failure rate.
- In Sept 2006 BMW revised the service recommendation for final drives to include final drive oil change at the 600-mi service (previously was considered lifetime lubricated).
- In 2007 BMW increased the size of the pinion gear needle bearing on EVO Paralevers, and added a magnetic drain plug.
- BMW didn't publicize but extended the final drive warranty to five years on bikes sold after January 2007
- Owners can check final drive status by putting bike on center stand, grabbing back wheel at 12 and 6 o'clock positions and rocking back and forth. Repeat at 3 and 9 o'clock positions. On EVO bikes up to 1 mm of play measured at the wheel rim is considered normal. More is abnormal and might indicate an impending problem
- A better inspection inspection method is draining final drive oil and inspecting magnetic plug for metallic particles. If any uncertainty, the final drive must be removed and gears/bearings inspected and gear lash measured
- A survey on the BMW LT forum resulted in 174 reported final drive failures
- A separate survey resulted in 80 people reporting failures, of which 11 were EVO Paralevers
- So far no reported crashes resulting from final drive failures

Beemerkat · 12-31-2008, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Avboden

bullshit

if you do normal service, change the final drive fluid (it isn't hard to do yourself) you are golden. I've never seen or heard (besides the internet) of anyone who's had a failure and I know a lot of BMW riders.

don't diss the shaft till you've tried it, take a test ride on a K1200 sometime

i love my shaft drive i even owned a yamaha with a shaft drive in the eighties never had a problem with the shaft on either, i always changed the oil when needed, wow lookie 53,740miles no shaft problems,

shaft drives are clean and virtually maintanance free to allow you to do more of that thing called hmmmmm.... RIDING! and uh. enjoying your favorite Bavarian Lager like Neuschwansteiner!

PS. i read somewhere that chains are wearing out and have potential to fail after 15000 miles here is the clip from motorcycle forum i saw!

"Your chain will need to be replaced whenever it becomes too elongated, if the rollers are no longer turning freely, and/or whenever your sprockets are starting to wear. It should also be replaced any time you replace your sprockets with new ones, and whenever you see red powder lubricant at the links (see picture "Failure Analysis", above). A typical lifespan for a well maintained chain should be between 8,000 and 15,000 miles (12,500 to 24,000 km). A typical lifespan for a neglected chain can be under 5,000 miles and for an ignored chain is rarely over 2,500 miles.

Toucan · 12-31-2008, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Avboden

bullshit

if you do normal service, change the final drive fluid (it isn't hard to do yourself) you are golden. I've never seen or heard (besides the internet) of anyone who's had a failure and I know a lot of BMW riders.

don't diss the shaft till you've tried it, take a test ride on a K1200 sometime

Av, your naivete is showing. I know 3 people who's drives have failed. A little searching of rally reports will show that folks are still using the bikes for LD riding, but the drives are indeed failing. Excerpts from the 2007 IBA Rally:

Day 10 - "Chris Sakala is the THIRD BMW rider to experience a final drive failure on this rally. His R1150GS Adventure is broken down in Leadville, Colorado. Chris is carrying a huge number of bonus points which obviously overloaded the final drive. He is going to do everything possible to get back here by Friday morning because he thinks he has a good chance to place highly even with some down time for repairs."

Day 11 - "Gerhard Memmen-Krueger has experienced a final drive failure near Oklahoma City, OK. Can you guess what he is riding? Duh! Another of the all-new, never needs maintenance BMW final drives has failed. His bike won't be fixed until after the final checkpoint closes at 10:00 a.m. tomorrow. "

see more of the reports and such...

http://www.ironbuttrally.com/IBR/2007.cfm?DocID=42

this was just a quick sampling of what is out there info-wise.

Maybe the sampling of LD riders you hang out with is small, and that's fine. Please don't think that it isn't an issue just because you haven't had this issue and no one you know has.

Also, I have ridden BMWs, old and new. Nice bikes, but the factory will have to own up to known bike issues before I consider making a purchase.

Beemerkat · 12-31-2008, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by james1300

BMW didnt even bother with us, by not showing up to IMS this year.

come on man IMS was lame this year period! honestly the shaft failure issue has nothing to do with BMW show!
i enjoyed my company of friends way more than the show! oh and the pic with the ducati girl

WTFO · 12-31-2008, 05:46 PM

I thought the only problem with BMW bikes was the old funny looking dudes in Leiderhosen riding them

Beemerkat · 12-31-2008, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by WTFO

I thought the only problem with BMW bikes was the old funny looking dudes in Leiderhosen riding them

Ha! Ha! you caught me! actually bundhosen i didnt splerge on the suspenders.

WTFO · 12-31-2008, 06:06 PM

So where did ya do Oktoberfest at?

Beemerkat · 12-31-2008, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by WTFO

So where did ya do Oktoberfest at?

Why Leavenworth of course. I rolled out a smooth $400 for the outfits for me and the wife they are actually authentic. I was able to afford that because i wasnt replacing my chain on a regular basis! LOL!

donbcivil · 12-31-2008, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Dave R

- So far no reported crashes resulting from final drive failures

Maybe...the BMW crashes I have heard of resulted from fork disintegration (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-failure-38514) or the F800 GS stalling problem.

I know you can have problems with any bike but you really have to watch out for patterns.

BMW can obviously make quality motorcycles but they seem to have an issue denying problems to a ridiculous point. Also, their sales people (at least here in the Seattle area) suck. The guy I talked to when I did a demo ride didn't seem to give a crap whether he sold me a bike. When I asked about accessory option costs, he suggested I look it up on the Internet.

By way of contrast, the Suzuki dealer in Monroe who sold me a DRZ engaged me in informative discussion for a bike that cost half as much and has been totally awesome to work with, in every department.

Beemerkat · 12-31-2008, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by donbcivil

BMW can obviously make quality motorcycles but they seem to have an issue denying problems to a ridiculous point. Also, their sales people (at least here in the Seattle area) suck. The guy I talked to when I did a demo ride didn't seem to give a crap whether he sold me a bike. When I asked about accessory option costs, he suggested I look it up on the Internet.

you know i noticed that too but i realized you dont go to the beemer shop to bicker and haggle most people that ride beemers like beemers and also know that some of them have little nuances that may bother some people they still buy them cause they just like beemers and they like to ride. just my opinion. bmw on the average doesnt have a cool boy hook up, you buy into it and live it. its bmw. BMW i love my Bavarian money Waster! really i do


12-31-2008, 03:23 PM	#1
mcjunky Shredder Joined: Jun 2005 From: spokane I Ride: smokey ones and a big green machine	Interesting BMW fact I heard At an iron butt rally bmw had a failure rate of 27% on their final drives Over 1/4 either caught fire, broke or seized up!!!!!!! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-31-2008, 03:25 PM	#2
MichelinMan Joined: May 2007 From: .	Care to share your source? I'd be interested to read it. More importantly, I hear 32% of people from Spokane like to make up second-hand statistics without anything to back them up. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-31-2008, 03:47 PM	#3
james1300 Track School Dazed Joined: Oct 2005 From: CENTRAL I Ride: When I can	The membership Sec.of BMWMOA (the national club) had a catastrophic failure. I hear its in the clubs news letter. The failure rate is documented in Motorcycle Consumer News as well. BMW on the otherhand, refuses to acknowledge they have a problem. Much like the F.I. surge problems the early USA model oil heads have. BMW didnt even bother with us, by not showing up to IMS this year. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-31-2008, 03:52 PM	#4
Ryanthegreat1 Shredder Joined: Feb 2008 From: Olympia I Ride: XR650R	Sounds like a product I would like to buy! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-31-2008, 03:56 PM	#5
K2TheM Streetfighter Joined: Apr 2006 From: Vancouver, WA I Ride: '84 VF 700F Interceptor	It's probably the ones with the Shaft drive. I'm not for sure, but I think the bushings or bearings in there are made out of some rubber compound or something that gets weak when used for long periods at a time. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-31-2008, 04:14 PM	#7
MichelinMan Joined: May 2007 From: .	All joking aside... is there an article or something that can be shared? I'd truly like to read it. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-31-2008, 04:19 PM	#8
Avboden Moto2 Contender Joined: Oct 2007 From: Pullman/Spokane, Wa I Ride: 2007 BMW F800S, 1999 ATK 605 ESDS/SM	bullshit if you do normal service, change the final drive fluid (it isn't hard to do yourself) you are golden. I've never seen or heard (besides the internet) of anyone who's had a failure and I know a lot of BMW riders. don't diss the shaft till you've tried it, take a test ride on a K1200 sometime __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-31-2008, 04:47 PM	#10
mcjunky Shredder Joined: Jun 2005 From: spokane I Ride: smokey ones and a big green machine	Av - do a little searching and you will find alot of failures, google iron butt rally final drive failures and it may open your eyes. The system is junk and beemer has pulled the wool over your eyes One instant was a iron butt group meeting where they asked the beemer crowd to raise their hands if they had a failure and over half had had the final drive go tits up. Michelin - check out Motorcycle consumer news september edition, that is not where I heard it although it is documented there as well. My source was a pissed off bmw rider who had his fail in s. dakota mid trip, he also does iba. After a little research I found all sorts of horror stories. And I understand you westsiders being jelous of spokane.... the west side is little wannabe cali __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-31-2008, 05:16 PM	#11
Dave R Peg Dragger Joined: Oct 2006 From: Seattle, WA Blog Entries: 1 I Ride: motorcycles	from http://www.bmw-k.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9427 Limited summary: - BMW uses two different final drive systems: the older Paralever design, which is still used on the K1200LT, and the 2nd-generation "EVO" Paralever, introduced in 2004 and, used on most current bikes. EVO design is easily identified by the 50mm hole in the rear axle. - From 1980 to 2000, BMW final drive failures were rare - Starting in 2001 an increasing number of final drive failures started appearing on K1200LT and R1150GS models - Most of those were on 1st generation Paralever bikes, although some were on EVO Paralever bikes. - Of 38 Paralever-equipped BMWs in the 2007 Iron Butt Rally, 14 were R1200 EVO models. Of these four didn't finish due to final drive failure -- a 29% failure rate. - In Sept 2006 BMW revised the service recommendation for final drives to include final drive oil change at the 600-mi service (previously was considered lifetime lubricated). - In 2007 BMW increased the size of the pinion gear needle bearing on EVO Paralevers, and added a magnetic drain plug. - BMW didn't publicize but extended the final drive warranty to five years on bikes sold after January 2007 - Owners can check final drive status by putting bike on center stand, grabbing back wheel at 12 and 6 o'clock positions and rocking back and forth. Repeat at 3 and 9 o'clock positions. On EVO bikes up to 1 mm of play measured at the wheel rim is considered normal. More is abnormal and might indicate an impending problem - A better inspection inspection method is draining final drive oil and inspecting magnetic plug for metallic particles. If any uncertainty, the final drive must be removed and gears/bearings inspected and gear lash measured - A survey on the BMW LT forum resulted in 174 reported final drive failures - A separate survey resulted in 80 people reporting failures, of which 11 were EVO Paralevers - So far no reported crashes resulting from final drive failures __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-31-2008, 05:46 PM	#15
WTFO Novice Racer Joined: Jul 2007 From: An unstated X,Y,Z coordinate I Ride: 09 Blk Daytona 675 (better than hoochie), BLK/Silver 06 Tiger, Red 04 R1, Yellow 99 Daytona 955i	I thought the only problem with BMW bikes was the old funny looking dudes in Leiderhosen riding them __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


12-31-2008, 06:06 PM	#17
WTFO Novice Racer Joined: Jul 2007 From: An unstated X,Y,Z coordinate I Ride: 09 Blk Daytona 675 (better than hoochie), BLK/Silver 06 Tiger, Red 04 R1, Yellow 99 Daytona 955i	So where did ya do Oktoberfest at? __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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