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Old 01-20-2009, 10:58 AM   #21
Pit Crew
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Joined: Oct 2007
From: Lacey, WA
Blog Entries: 3

I Ride: '13 KLR 650 a 98 TL1000R and the 08 FZ-6 if the wife lets me.
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexHack View Post
I find this hard to believe.
We are not talking about multi-vehicle collisions here. This is a conglomeration of all traffic fatalities. If it was a study on multi's the 76% would be give to the operator of the dual track vehicles. But sadly it is the rider that wraps himself around a tree with no one around. That is the killer.

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Old 01-20-2009, 11:08 AM   #22
Chicken Strips
 
Joined: Nov 2005
From: Kennewick, WA

I Ride: ZX-14,C14,FJR1300,S10
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamuru View Post
So, it would seem that it is the Washington State Patrol that keeps killing this bill.
I am not surprised the WSP is opposed to this bill or any other bill that would give motorists an option to use common sense...its a flow down from Washington's traditional liberal governments who think that the public is best served by as much government control as possible. I also think if the WSP had its way the speed limit on Interstates would be 45 mph and the speed limits everywhere else would be 35 mph or less.

The WSP gets to keep the statistics and can use those statistics to support almost any position although it is true that the percentage of motorcyclists that are hit from behind is pretty low. However, I don't think that logic should be used to deny motorcyclists the opportunity to get out of harms way if they are stuck in a situation where they would be breaking some law no matter what direction they move.

I wonder if the WSP would spend the same amount of energy to support legislation that would mandate that traffic signals operate correctly. I also wonder what their motorcycle officers actually do when they get stuck at an intersection with a non-changing light.

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Old 01-20-2009, 11:11 AM   #23
Novice Racer
Thaloc's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: Wenatchee, WA

I Ride: in my memories
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by MCRIDER007 View Post
I also wonder what their motorcycle officers actually do when they get stuck at an intersection with a non-changing light.
Turn on the lights...flip a b*tch

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Old 01-20-2009, 11:12 AM   #24
Superbiker
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Joined: Nov 2005
From: Rathdrum, ID

I Ride: cause I'm a Loowwlife
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaloc View Post
I pay $104 10 out of 12 months for full coverage+UIM. Thats for under 25 un married male, I had no tickets at the time.
Hmm that may be worth checking into for me, I'm about 880 for a yr. I'll be 26 in 5 days, and first got my Buell last June.

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Old 01-20-2009, 11:15 AM   #25
Peg Dragger
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Joined: Mar 2007
From: Spokane
My response back;
“ Quote:
Dear Joel,

Thank you for taking the time to hear my concerns and for your quick response. The issue of non functioning traffic lights continuously comes up in the motorcycle community. This is due to the fact that if we get caught in this situation there is no "legal" way to get out of it rather than waiting for a car to come along behind us and trip the sensor. It is often suggested that the preferred alternative to running the red arrow is to try and move across traffic and turn right, so that the rider can turn around and head in the direction he was intending. I'm not familiar with all of the RCW's, but this seems like it would cause a rider to break at least three laws that I can remember. Keep in mind this issue only presents itself when the motorcycle is alone in the turn lane, so it would be stopped at the stop line. If it turned right I'm assuming it could be cited for;
Changing lanes too close to an intersection.
Changing lanes across multiple lanes at once.
Failure to signal within 100ft(since previously the rider was signaling left).

In reality the only option is to wait until it is clear and proceed against the red. This is a safer, more sensible option than trying to attempt the right turn. If an officer happens to see this and chooses to cite me I can only assume he would have used the same judgment to cite me for making the illegal right turn as well. And if it is deemed that we don't possess the judgment necessary to take that left turn safely(the current response from WSP on the matter), I don't see how we could be trusted to cross multiple lanes of traffic that is approaching from behind either. To me, that is a very risky maneuver with any sort of traffic volume, whereas making the left would be just like any number of intersections without protected turn lanes where you just have to wait for a clear spot.

Again, thanks for taking the time to hear my concerns.

Sincerely,
Devin Hannas
And another response already!;
“ Quote:
Dear Devin,

I see on the Bill-Introduction sheet today that there is a bill, HB 1403, “Addressing the detection of motorcycles at vehicle-activated traffic control signals.” I will support this bill as it currently reads.

I have attached the links where you can find the bill text and information for your convenience.

I hope this is helpful, please let me know if I can be of further assistance.



Joel Kretz

State Representative

7th District



http://aor.leg.wa.lcl/billsummary/de...2009&bill=1403





http://wsldocs/2009-10/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/1403.pdf



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Old 01-20-2009, 12:37 PM   #26
Endorsed
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Joined: Jul 2006
From: Kitsap

I Ride: Speed Triple (when it isn't broken)
From Washington Road Riders Association...
The big news concerns malfunctioning traffic signals. During past sessions, the cities and counties maintained the position of “let us know which signals do not sense you and we will get them working properly.” During the interim the bicycling community decided to ask that the cities and counties step up and walk the walk. They are championing a bill the puts a performance standard on traffic signals.
The short version is this:
If a signaling system has the capability to detect a motorcycle or a bicycle but doesn’t, the local municipality is the requirement to adjust the system to detect motorcycles and bicycles. If the signaling system does not have the technological capability to do the detection, they are not required to meet the performance standard until the system is undergoing scheduled upgrading. Then, and in the case of new construction, the system must be able to operate at the higher standard. While this does not solve the short term problem, it most definitely addresses the long term solution.
No real opposition has surfaced yet, and the Bicycle Alliance of Washington has done their homework. The proposal has been vetted through numerous cities and local municipalities, along with members of the law enforcement community with no real push back. Add in the fact that the BAW is being represented by a seriously respected “A list” lobbyist, and this measure has serious legs. We are letting the BAW provide the lead on the issue while we provide support in the individual offices in our role as constituents. I let their lobbyist know that we will be speaking individually to the issue and standing by when he needs us to provide some pressure.
Representative Brendan William (D-22) is the prime sponsor for the house version, and Senator Tim Sheldon (D-35) is the prime sponsor for the senate version. Senators Delvin (R-, Senator Jacobsen (D-46), and Senator Swecker (R-20) have already signed on to the senate version, which I will be walking this coming Monday. I have not seen the “Blue Sheet” for the house version, but several members have expressed an interest. I know that Representative White (D-46) and Representative Hurst (D-31) want to sign on.
What every rider needs to do is contact their State Senator or Representative and ask that they sign onto and support this issue. Also, be standing by in case we need to pull the trigger on a “call out the dogs.” The BAW lobbyist definitely understands how we can excel in that particular operation.

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Old 01-20-2009, 12:43 PM   #27
Novice Racer
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Joined: Aug 2008
From: Puget Sound

I Ride: H-D
As usual, the Waffen State Patrol, an enforcement agency, dictates the Legislative direction "for our safety."

Disband them and create a Security Service (SS) for State government protection.

FTWSP

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Old 01-20-2009, 12:44 PM   #28
ted sux
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Joined: Jan 2006
From: Methlehem
Blog Entries: 1

I Ride: A wicked bitchin 04 zx10R! Named Mustache
I used to have that problem at one light in particular all the time. The easiest fix for me was to put the bike in neutral and drop the kickstand. It's always tripped the light for me.

Doesn't it seem like there are more important things the state could be handling?

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Old 01-20-2009, 01:06 PM   #29
Peg Dragger
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Joined: Mar 2007
From: Spokane
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by ted_garlock View Post

Doesn't it seem like there are more important things the state could be handling?
Only because this seems like such a minor thing to change. It's BS that we get put in that position. There is no reason they can't take care of it.

Wait I said the word.......CHANGE!!!!! YEAH!!!!!

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Old 01-20-2009, 01:07 PM   #30
ted sux
tedg04's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
From: Methlehem
Blog Entries: 1

I Ride: A wicked bitchin 04 zx10R! Named Mustache
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by dwh4784 View Post
Only because this seems like such a minor thing to change. It's BS that we get put in that position. There is no reason they can't take care of it.

Wait I said the word.......CHANGE!!!!! YEAH!!!!!
Lib

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Old 01-20-2009, 01:19 PM   #31
Peg Dragger
TMMR's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
From: Vancouver Washington

I Ride: broken ones backwards
Here is info forwarded onto us from Chris Dulas at ABATE of WA.
************************************************** *
A Different Viewpoint



I, like a lot of riders, have been frustrated by sensor controlled traffic signals that don’t change for me when I am riding . Like a lot of you, I support the legislation that would allow me to proceed if it didn’t change and I could be on my merry way . It has been 6 years now that ABATE has been asking the state government for some fairness on this issue and we are still being treated unfairly . Now, my narrow viewpoint of the issue has changed and the proposed “Left turn Bill” is not, in my opinion, a solution . I think we have been fighting the wrong battle because the problem is not solved by allowing me to go through a red light without, maybe, getting a traffic ticket .

I watched a young (OK, they are all young compared to me) rider on one of these small motor scooters at a traffic light in Lacey . He was trying to make a left turn and his scooter was the only motor vehicle in that left turn lane . He was screwed . It was dark, heavy traffic, and both roads were multi-lane roads both ways and that poor kid was trying his best to not get killed . It was apparent to me that he did not have a clue as to how to get the light to change for him .

For me, and all the others like that young rider, we need the government to fix the problem that places us at risk . The problem is that the WA Department of Transportation has allowed sensor controlled traffic lights to control the flow of motor vehicles without consideration of OUR motor vehicles, motorcycles in all forms . On one hand, we are charged with compliance of all the traffic laws governing the operation of a motor vehicle on the public highway and yet; on the other hand, we are prohibited the ability to safely do so in regards to traffic control signals at intersections . And now, with the proliferation of traffic light cameras being installed in increasing numbers by various entities; we are at a greater risk of traffic fines even if the “left turn” bill gets passed .

By the way; according to the NHTSA, rear end collisions increase an average of 19% at “Red Light Camera” intersections so watch your mirrors when you see those cameras .

If you read the WA department of Licensing Riders Handbook, you will not find a clear direction on how a rider is to operate a motorcycle at a sensor controlled traffic light intersection . They don’t have to tell the operators of cars because the sensors work for them .

I want it to work the same for me . It is dangerous enough at intersections without expecting me to proceed against a red light when oncoming traffic has a green light .



I think we need the State Legislature to direct the DOT to change the specifications for traffic signal controls at intersections including the following as a minimum:

1 . Signage at the intersection that identifies the traffic lights as sensor controlled, as well as the telephone number to call in case of malfunctions .

2 . An indicator that will signify, in each lane, that vehicle detection has occurred .

3 . Sensors that will detect all legally licensed and operated motor vehicles with appropriate roadway markings for vehicle position to trigger the sensor(s) .

4 . Changes to the Driver/Rider handbooks to explain the procedure for motorcycles at sensor controlled traffic light intersections .



Until the above is accomplished; prohibit the issuing of tickets for red light violations at “Red Light Camera” monitored locations and allow an affirmative defense for tickets, issued by a Law Enforcement Officer, where the rider stopped at the light and it did not change for the rider either for left turn or for straight ahead .



That’s my 2 cents and I welcome any responses .





Chris Dulas

NCOM Ambassador

ABATE of Washington

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Old 01-20-2009, 01:29 PM   #32
Peg Dragger
dwh4784's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
From: Spokane
Those are great points. It seems less likely that they would address equipment problems than simply just allowing us legal passage through a red, but it really is the root cause of the problem. Some intersections work and some don't so obviously it is their issue and they should be proactive in looking for a solution.

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Old 01-20-2009, 02:22 PM   #33
Retired
Tigress's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
From: Lynnwood

I Ride: Nothing, sold the Rebel, totaled the Ninja 500 :( :( :(
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Nathan V View Post
I don't. Most of those are single-vehicle. Watch the forum and see how often people post up crashes and how often, of those, they're hit by a car.
Yep, exactly.

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Old 01-21-2009, 07:53 AM   #34
Novice Racer
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Joined: Aug 2008
From: Puget Sound

I Ride: H-D
Legislative Update



We have bills!
Both the senate (SB 5387) and house (HB 1403) versions of the traffic sensor bills are in play.

These bills require that any “vehicle-activated traffic control signal” that has the existing technology to sense motorcycles and bicycles, but does not "routinely and reliably detect motorcycles and bicycles," must be adjusted so that they do make that detection.

If the technology is not currently in place there is no requirement to upgrade the infrastructure merely because it will not make the detection.

If the infrastructure is scheduled to be replaced, or when new infrastructure is planned, triggers a requirement to incorporate the level of technology that will allow motorcycle and bicycle detection.

While it does not address the malfunctioning signaling system issue in the near term, it does set in place a long term, more permanent solution.

This should give everyone some good points to bring to their representatives on Black Thursday.

Here are the current Senate sponsors. More may sign on Wednesday when the bill (SB 5387) is formally introduced.



Senators Sheldon, Delvin, Jacobsen, Swecker, Pridemore, Jarrett, Kilmer, Regala, Kline, and Hatfield



Here are the House sponsors:



Representatives Williams, DeBolt, Rolfes, Hinkle, Upthegrove, Blake, Moeller, Newhouse, Takko, Green, Walsh, Short, Haler, Kelley, Hurst, VanDeWege, McCune, Kristiansen, Condotta, Warnick, Hunt, Goodman, Johnson, Simpson, and Sullivan.



The highlighted Simpson is the same Geoff Simpson who has voted against every piece of motorcycle legislation for years and actively campaigned to derail our original malfunctioning signal bill. Hopefully his signing on to the bill now will keep him from trying to submarine it later.



Make sure to thank your representative if he or she is signed on.



Stay tuned for further directions. We need to be ready to act if the BAW lobbyist ask for a “call out the dogs.”



Until then,



Ride safe and Legislate Well

"Texas" Larry Walker
Government Relations Specialist
Washington Road Riders Association
wrraleg@aol.com

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Old 01-21-2009, 08:16 AM   #35
Big Brother
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Joined: Jan 2008
From: Granite Falls, WA
Blog Entries: 220

I Ride: 1982 Yamaha XJ650 Maxim, 1988 Kawasaki KLR650
Last night, I read through HB 1403 and felt it was pretty good over all. One issue that I think is left out is the fact that their is no mandate for municipalities to be proactive in checking their signaling equipment. The only way municipalities will know of defective signal equipment is if we--both motorcyclists and bicyclists--call and let them know when we get caught at a defective signal.

Question: Do you know whom to call when you encounter a defective signal?

Of course, the answer depends on where the traffic light is.

I think we, as a group of riders, can pretty well hit most of the defective signals in this state in a year's time. I'm thinking we should compile a list of contacts for various municipalities so that when a light is encountered we can report it. Perhaps a website can be created with some sort of map cross-reference and a submission form one can fill out to report trouble that is logged. If the same intersection continually gets reports, we'll know that local governments aren't complying with the law.

If this bill does become law, it won't be long before this problem becomes no more. If it doesn't, at least we'll have a paper trail to use for leaning on government to motivate them to act more quickly on their repairs.

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Old 01-21-2009, 08:32 AM   #36
Novice Racer
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Joined: Aug 2008
From: Puget Sound

I Ride: H-D
I'll keep running the lights and not relying on the politicians to do anything on our behalf-

Just because it's a law doesn't make it right.

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Old 01-21-2009, 04:37 PM   #37
Permit
R6 N A PoLo 509's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
From: WaPs...

I Ride: YaMi ArR SiCkS
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointman View Post
I'll keep running the lights and not relying on the politicians to do anything on our behalf-

Just because it's a law doesn't make it right.
Agreed!!

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Old 01-21-2009, 09:06 PM   #38
Chicken Strips
 
Joined: Nov 2005
From: Kennewick, WA

I Ride: ZX-14,C14,FJR1300,S10
This was posted today on FJRForum.com

"As many of you know I'm a LEO here in South Carolina. During the course of my yearly training I was informed of a new law on the books in SC. It is now legal for motorcycles to proceeed through a red light if the in-pavement sensor fails to trip. You must wait 120 seconds(2 mins) and then treat the red light as a fourway stop. You may only proceed when it is safe to do so. "

Two minutes seems like a long time to wait but it would probably take that long just to verify that the light is not going to change.

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Old 01-21-2009, 09:41 PM   #39
Novice Racer
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Joined: Jul 2007
From: An unstated X,Y,Z coordinate

I Ride: 09 Blk Daytona 675 (better than hoochie), BLK/Silver 06 Tiger, Red 04 R1, Yellow 99 Daytona 955i
Well for what it is worth I have found several lights in Olympia that do not trip. So I started screwing around and found out that if I pull up dead center and stop about 2 - 3 foot from the white stop line it will usually work.

Also someone else mentioned in the thread that putting the kick stand down works.

I talked to a road crew one day and the fella told me that the reason dead center worked was it put the chain over the sensor wire imbedded in the pavement and caused the light to trip - pretty much as putting the side stand down to disrupt the magnetic field that operates the light system.

Have heard the magnet gizmo works also have never tried it though.

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Old 01-21-2009, 09:52 PM   #40
I bathe with candles, flowers, jazz music, and rubber ducky.
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Joined: Jun 2008
From: Beijing
Blog Entries: 4

I Ride: in my wet dreams
On my commute to school, then work, then back to school, then home I know of several problem lights. I run them every time as needed. And when I think I've found a problem light but I'm not sure, I run it, too.

I also lane-split when I'm in a hurry, though... so I guess I'm in favor of a couple law changes Basically, I just do it. If they wanna pull me over and right me a ticket, I'll use the opportunity and make a point of it to further my agenda as a motorcyclist. I get things done by doing... yeah!

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