PNW Riders

pv2 · 07-07-2009, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by pdxnathan

For what little it's worth, I'll share my limited personal experience with group rides. I really don't even like this thread, because I don't like seeing good people who I know in person rip each other online, when they wouldn't act that way in person at all.

But I realized the other day that from all this discussion, I am getting some confirmation of my own feelings on group rides. This in turn makes me better able to follow my own instincts on this subject. So, if I can help someone else trust his or her own judgement by sharing my opinions, then I owe it to at least put my thoughts out there, know what I mean? So...

1) for me, a big group ride is distracting, confusing, and a little overwhelming. it can be tempting to do stuff I wouldn't normally do, to push my comfort envelope, or just to lose focus on riding well.

2) for me, a small group of 3-4 people max where I know the riding skills and style of people in the group is the exact opposite: I feel more comfortable knowing that someone has my back, I get tips like debris pointers, I get to see someone whose "pace" I know, and who has ridden the route before, head into a turn ahead of me... all these things make me a better and safer rider without distracting me. but that said, I still find myself occasionally riding a little faster than I would by myself because I'm having fun with a friend.

I'm not saying big group rides are "bad" or anything, I only know that I trust my own instincts, and my experience so far is that I feel much less comfortable riding in a big group than that a small group. If someone out there is feeling the same way, I encourage you to follow those instincts and avoid big group rides. On the other hand if this goes totally against your experience, well then I encourage you to follow your own instincts on this one, and do what makes you a more comfortable and confident and safer rider.

And get a lot of $$$$ to trick out your Ducati like Nathan too!!!!!
What a nice bike, shyte I feel like grafting half of his bike onto mine!!!

Soil · 07-07-2009, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by pv2

Please Soil:

Combat Arms Military: Stresses Training, Situational Drills, etc.

Kinda keeps your people from Injury and Death of self and unintended.

There is a war going out there on the roads.
THey are all trying to kill you! Through Negligence You are trying to kill you!
Best get some training.

pv2

spaceroc5 · 07-07-2009, 09:16 AM

I crashed on my 1st group ride last july. It was a beginner ride hosted by Mfrankpdx. Everything was well orginized and explained in the pre-ride meeting. The pace was slow with no surprizes and I felt comfy. I felt like I was riding at 50-60% of my ability. Then after lunch we went from 30 to 8 and I over cooked a corner entry and locked the rear and high sided. I was riding at what I thought was my 60% but was more like 90. Only through seat time and a few hundred laps at the track have I come to realize this. I was souly responsible for my Wreck! If I were on that ride today I would have been board and riding with 1 hand in all corners

My point is n00bs don't Know there 60% or really what is safe for them. I didn't after putting 4000 miles on that bike first. I am usually self taught on most thing so it didn't serve me well when learning to ride. So N00Bs go learn at the track and from a good mentor trust me you need both!

Lee650 · 07-07-2009, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by spaceroc5

I crashed on my 1st group ride last july. It was a beginner ride hosted by Mfrankpdx. Everything was well orginized and explained in the pre-ride meeting. The pace was slow with no surprizes and I felt comfy. I felt like I was riding at 50-60% of my ability. Then after lunch we went from 30 to 8 and I over cooked a corner entry and locked the rear and high sided. I was riding at what I thought was my 60% but was more like 90. Only through seat time and a few hundred laps at the track have I come to realize this. I was souly responsible for my Wreck! If I were on that ride today I would have been board and riding with 1 hand in all corners

My point is n00bs don't Know there 60% or really what is safe for them. I didn't after putting 4000 miles on that bike first. I am usually self taught on most thing so it didn't serve me well when learning to ride. So N00Bs go learn at the track and from a good mentor trust me you need both!

Locking up the rear brake is one of the biggest cause of Newbie crashes. Most would be better off to make themselves only use the front brake for several months then slowly start getting a feel for the rear. Because in a panic situation most will grab the rear first and lock it up. One thing you learn on the track is just how hard you can use the front without locking up the brake and how fast it will slow you down.

pv2 · 07-07-2009, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by spaceroc5

I crashed on my 1st group ride last july. It was a beginner ride hosted by Mfrankpdx. Everything was well orginized and explained in the pre-ride meeting. The pace was slow with no surprizes and I felt comfy. I felt like I was riding at 50-60% of my ability. Then after lunch we went from 30 to 8 and I over cooked a corner entry and locked the rear and high sided. I was riding at what I thought was my 60% but was more like 90. Only through seat time and a few hundred laps at the track have I come to realize this. I was souly responsible for my Wreck! If I were on that ride today I would have been board and riding with 1 hand in all corners

My point is n00bs don't Know there 60% or really what is safe for them. I didn't after putting 4000 miles on that bike first. I am usually self taught on most thing so it didn't serve me well when learning to ride. So N00Bs go learn at the track and from a good mentor trust me you need both!

I hear wisdom speaking here!
Spacerok hits something very profound here:
You don't know till the surprise comes and you are over your head.
and that first 4K is where a lot of the fatalities / accidents come to visit the surprised.

Soapbox!!!!!!!!
Some added takeoff:
Miles! even for someone who's been off the bike for a season, thinks they know, and .....

Spacerok That is why when you earlier said you where going to leave the scene.
My words to you good brother, don't go cause when you come back, you will have forgoten darn near everything, the feel, reflexes etc.
You will be more of a danger to yourself coming back, than staying with it.

Very glad you decided to stay dude.

In my humble book you staying here and conveying your experience will help keep others from going down a bad road.

Team:
Riding experience is not yours folks, It is a relationship, one which has to be constantly upgraded and reviewed/ expanded.

You can't ride and walk away from it, think it is yours, you own it, it will be there when you get back.

It is a relation between you, your bike, the road and allllllllllllllll those crazy mo-fo's out there which will do their best to get you visting MJ.

Keep riding! Get edumakated! Be a part of PNW, share and learn

don't crash and burn.

enough soapbox,

pv2

pv2 · 07-07-2009, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Lee650

Locking up the rear brake is one of the biggest cause of Newbie crashes. Most would be better off to make themselves only use the front brake for several months then slowly start getting a feel for the rear. Because in a panic situation most will grab the rear first and lock it up. One thing you learn on the track is just how hard you can use the front without locking up the brake and how fast it will slow you down.

I agree with you.
But I'd also add something which you may agree.
(yes a single post or statement is never a tretise on the subject)

THREAD HIJACK!!!!!!
More blathering to my unfortunate pals on the forum:
Practice knowing your bike 1st on a parking lot/ controlled environment, hopefully with a mentor looking over you.

Do you know your bike on dirt, gravel, Leaves, wet leaves, cold road, hot road, wet road.

Practice using your brakes F, R, both, practice Practicce PRACTICE!
Panic stop, Avoidance stops.

HOp the fk on your brakes and stop it as fast as you can.

What kind of brake compound do you have? How does it bite?
What? you don't know???
You best know and soon!
How much brake pad do you have left?

So when you stopped your bike......
Did you flip your bike?

When you got your drivers license, did you go over those drills?????

In my first 2000 miles:
I almost killed myself twice not hopping on the brakes hard enough.

Cars make left hand turn in front of me.

THe second time, I got off of my bike, pulled my helmet off, saw my relatives and friends crying over my grave.

Had a real Come to Jesus moment (for the lack of a better word).

KNow THy Bike, KNow Thyself every where you go.

Blater blather,

pv2

pv2 · 07-07-2009, 09:58 AM

now I am going to shut up.

See you at AVA Coffee, safe and sound!

saltlick · 07-07-2009, 12:46 PM

i use to show up at group rides and announce to everyone that i am the slowest bastard in town, so dont wait up for me ill see you at the next (stop sign, place where the road forks) everyone would laugh and that seemed to take the pressure off myself. As i got better i still announced that, but then noticed i was keeping up with the riders in front so i quit saying it. It helped though in the beginning. I dont think its the responsibility of the leader to slow down cause of the new riders, hell hes gotta have fun too, but i do think its his deal to make sure everyone shows up at the stopping points, or forks in the road. Maybe preplan where everyone will stop and regroup.

FZ6Rider · 07-07-2009, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Lee650

Locking up the rear brake is one of the biggest cause of Newbie crashes. Most would be better off to make themselves only use the front brake for several months then slowly start getting a feel for the rear. Because in a panic situation most will grab the rear first and lock it up. One thing you learn on the track is just how hard you can use the front without locking up the brake and how fast it will slow you down.

Good point Lee.
When I ride at 80% I avoid using rear brake - front has lots of stoping power and more predictable. Rear is great in "town" or with less lean.
I believe its very important to know your bike and your brakes - knowing the limits is also nice.

Ride safe.

Shrek X · 07-07-2009, 01:10 PM

^^ I agree with Lee about the new rider not using the rear brake for a month or two of riding, to get accustomed to the front end dive and know how much power they have (along with probably figuring out what a front end washout is). ..

I highly disagree with riding anything over ~50% and not using the rear brake, thats like trying to run a race with only one shoe on, the rear doesn’t provide a lot of power, but it does provide stability and adds a great deal to overall control.

Saki.Girl · 07-07-2009, 01:24 PM

Ok I have been quiet on this whole thread, but I have to disagree and give my 2 cents. Oh I am sure will get flamed, but, oh well.

First off, if you are a noob, you most certainly should know if you are riding over your head. If you are having “oh shit” moments then hell yeah you’re over your head and need to slow down. That does not take a rocket scientist to figure out. Maybe for guys it is more of trying to be cool and keep up with the big boys. If that is the case, put your ego to the side; this is one dangerous sport we do and no room for some stupid ego crap.

I sure as hell knew what my riding ability was as a noob and if I needed to slow my ass down even now I know what it is. I sure as hell better know what my riding ability is or I have no business having my ass on a motorcycle. It is my responsibility to know it and no one else’s.

As far as the mentor rides and mentee rides, I think I have been to almost all of them and they are well organized and I have learned a lot. There is no racing going on, just good people giving some information to new riders. For someone just learning, this is priceless.

As far as if the mentoring works, well, for those of you that have known me for a long time my riding now proves it works. Without the great mentors I have had, no way would I be where my riding is now. With the information they gave me and lots of seat time and practice I am at a whole new level of riding with yes much more to learn. But, without them, no way would I have realized hey you are not really looking thru your corner when I thought I was is just one example of how something so small can make a huge difference.

Anyone can give you information. It is up to you to decide if that is information you want to use and or if you feel that person knows what they are talking about.

As far as a group ride I do not agree that I should have to keep someone in my mirror 24/7.

If there is a turn off yes I am going to stop. If it has been some time, then yes I will turn around and check on them. But, I should be able to enjoy my ride also. If you are on a group ride and someone who has been riding say 3 months is behind you, then heck no they are not at your level, so why should I not be able to enjoy my ride also?

Now if this was a mentee/mentor ride or a noob ride, then that is different. Yes, I would be riding slow and keeping them in my mirrors.

But if this is just a group ride to go out and ride, then no I do not feel that keeping you in my mirror the whole time is a must. Yes will I look out for a fellow rider heck ya.

I would not expect someone who’s riding skill is above mine to not be able to enjoy their ride and have to keep me in there mirror all the time because I am slower than they are. I would expect them to stop at turns and ya if it had been a long time since they had seen me to turn around and check on me.

Do I think to always take a head count to make sure all are accounted for? That is a big yes. And, if someone is taking off, then yes let someone know so people are not looking for you.

OK. Now can we just all get along and go ride

saltlick · 07-07-2009, 01:36 PM

but wait theres moar!

Which leads to the next part, which is dont forget to give out the group leaders cell phone number...why?

One of my first group rides i got left behind and came to an area where it split, i didnt know which way to go so i just turned around and went home. Little did i know the guys turned back and went looking for me. I guess they spent some time retracing our steps looking in the ditches for me. I didnt feel too bad cause they didnt stop at the fork in the road.

If you are truly going to follow the "no rider left behind" scenario unless you tell everyone before the ride that if they are going to cut out or turn around call your number and leave a message. That way the ride aint ruined looking for someone that aint there.

pv2 · 07-07-2009, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Saki.Girl

Ok I have been quiet on this whole thread, but I have to disagree and give my 2 cents. Oh I am sure will get flamed, but, oh well.

First off, if you are a noob, you most certainly should know if you are riding over your head. If you are having “oh shit” moments then hell yeah you’re over your head and need to slow down. That does not take a rocket scientist to figure out. Maybe for guys it is more of trying to be cool and keep up with the big boys. If that is the case, put your ego to the side; this is one dangerous sport we do and no room for some stupid ego crap.

I sure as hell knew what my riding ability was as a noob and if I needed to slow my ass down even now I know what it is. I sure as hell better know what my riding ability is or I have no business having my ass on a motorcycle. It is my responsibility to know it and no one else’s.

As far as the mentor rides and mentee rides, I think I have been to almost all of them and they are well organized and I have learned a lot. There is no racing going on, just good people giving some information to new riders. For someone just learning, this is priceless.

As far as if the mentoring works, well, for those of you that have known me for a long time my riding now proves it works. Without the great mentors I have had, no way would I be where my riding is now. With the information they gave me and lots of seat time and practice I am at a whole new level of riding with yes much more to learn. But, without them, no way would I have realized hey you are not really looking thru your corner when I thought I was is just one example of how something so small can make a huge difference.

Anyone can give you information. It is up to you to decide if that is information you want to use and or if you feel that person knows what they are talking about.

As far as a group ride I do not agree that I should have to keep someone in my mirror 24/7.

If there is a turn off yes I am going to stop. If it has been some time, then yes I will turn around and check on them. But, I should be able to enjoy my ride also. If you are on a group ride and someone who has been riding say 3 months is behind you, then heck no they are not at your level, so why should I not be able to enjoy my ride also?

Now if this was a mentee/mentor ride or a noob ride, then that is different. Yes, I would be riding slow and keeping them in my mirrors.

But if this is just a group ride to go out and ride, then no I do not feel that keeping you in my mirror the whole time is a must. Yes will I look out for a fellow rider heck ya.

I would not expect someone who’s riding skill is above mine to not be able to enjoy their ride and have to keep me in there mirror all the time because I am slower than they are. I would expect them to stop at turns and ya if it had been a long time since they had seen me to turn around and check on me.

Do I think to always take a head count to make sure all are accounted for? That is a big yes. And, if someone is taking off, then yes let someone know so people are not looking for you.

OK. Now can we just all get along and go ride

hey you where fine before and now you just come in and spoil it all!!!

I think one of the issues is, there is a big diff between most people's commuting, or riding around on main streets and then suddenly going to the twisties.

People having an Oh Shyte moment on a commute should be very well advised to be very cool on twisty rides.

Certainly that rider would do well to communicate to the Leader, who should be asking "who here has not rode in the hills? who is new here? who is uncomfortable with riding in the hills etc?"

So riders who never have an issue and think they have it going on for one kind of ride may get wacked up in the twisties.

If they (noobies) are spending too much time in the mirrors they may spend some time suddenly doing motorcross up in the twistiiesss!!!

As far as deciding who to listen too, what to listen too, a newbie will not have the experience/ nor ability to tell the Wheat from the Chaff; therefore, the Identified Mentor is of value.

I think for the most part we are all in agreement; however, the devil

is in the details, and this is where we should have more clarification for some of these rides!

Happy you are progressing along in your way!

pv2

Shrek X · 07-07-2009, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Saki.Girl

Ok I have been quiet on this whole thread, but I have to disagree and give my 2 cents. Oh I am sure will get flamed, but, oh well.

First off, if you are a noob, you most certainly should know if you are riding over your head. If you are having “oh shit” moments then hell yeah you’re over your head and need to slow down. That does not take a rocket scientist to figure out. Maybe for guys it is more of trying to be cool and keep up with the big boys. If that is the case, put your ego to the side; this is one dangerous sport we do and no room for some stupid ego crap.

I sure as hell knew what my riding ability was as a noob and if I needed to slow my ass down even now I know what it is. I sure as hell better know what my riding ability is or I have no business having my ass on a motorcycle. It is my responsibility to know it and no one else’s.

As far as the mentor rides and mentee rides, I think I have been to almost all of them and they are well organized and I have learned a lot. There is no racing going on, just good people giving some information to new riders. For someone just learning, this is priceless.

As far as if the mentoring works, well, for those of you that have known me for a long time my riding now proves it works. Without the great mentors I have had, no way would I be where my riding is now. With the information they gave me and lots of seat time and practice I am at a whole new level of riding with yes much more to learn. But, without them, no way would I have realized hey you are not really looking thru your corner when I thought I was is just one example of how something so small can make a huge difference.

Anyone can give you information. It is up to you to decide if that is information you want to use and or if you feel that person knows what they are talking about.

As far as a group ride I do not agree that I should have to keep someone in my mirror 24/7.

If there is a turn off yes I am going to stop. If it has been some time, then yes I will turn around and check on them. But, I should be able to enjoy my ride also. If you are on a group ride and someone who has been riding say 3 months is behind you, then heck no they are not at your level, so why should I not be able to enjoy my ride also?

Now if this was a mentee/mentor ride or a noob ride, then that is different. Yes, I would be riding slow and keeping them in my mirrors.

But if this is just a group ride to go out and ride, then no I do not feel that keeping you in my mirror the whole time is a must. Yes will I look out for a fellow rider heck ya.

I would not expect someone who’s riding skill is above mine to not be able to enjoy their ride and have to keep me in there mirror all the time because I am slower than they are. I would expect them to stop at turns and ya if it had been a long time since they had seen me to turn around and check on me.

Do I think to always take a head count to make sure all are accounted for? That is a big yes. And, if someone is taking off, then yes let someone know so people are not looking for you.

OK. Now can we just all get along and go ride

sorry, I dont agree, if your out on a ride with 2 or 3 people and you loose sight for a second or two, sure. But anything larger with more people, the person should be there when you look.

I think we are talking about different rides to... which maybe part of the disconnect.

When I ride, we stay pretty tight and close… fairly close to the speed limit + 10 at most usually, boards drag now and again, but its about being on the road not how fast we get around corners. It sounds like your more the latter.

It sounds more like your riding with a bunch of people, but not really in a “group ride” in the traditional sense…. That being said, I still think there is a level of responsibility to watch out for your buddy on the road and loosing someone’s headlight or tail light is bad juju.

I know you may take what I say as calling someone out, and if they fit the mold, than yea, I am… but I am actually very easy going and not twisted at all (this is me calm). There is nobody I know here (yet) I wouldn’t sit down and have a beer with.

pv2 · 07-07-2009, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Shrek X

sorry, I dont agree, if your out on a ride with 2 or 3 people and you loose sight for a second or two, sure. But anything larger with more people, the person should be there when you look.

I think we are talking about different rides to... which maybe part of the disconnect.

When I ride, we stay pretty tight and close… fairly close to the speed limit + 10 at most usually, boards drag now and again, but its about being on the road not how fast we get around corners. It sounds like your more the latter.

It sounds more like your riding with a bunch of people, but not really in a “group ride” in the traditional sense…. That being said, I still think there is a level of responsibility to watch out for your buddy on the road and loosing someone’s headlight or tail light is bad juju.

I know you may take what I say as calling someone out, and if they fit the mold, than yea, I am… but I am actually very easy going and not twisted at all (this is me calm). There is nobody I know here (yet) I wouldn’t sit down and have a beer with.

http://www.talkingwav.com/cartoon/bugs_22.wav

Transported · 07-07-2009, 02:44 PM

Shrek, I was out this weekend and saw a miniature of your group ride. They were snout to ass, hardly needing to lean at their speeds, and had an SUV backed up behind them.

I've seen groups of cruisers on our twisties from time to time and all they needed to be confused with a parade was a float bringing up the rear.

That is not what sportbikers consider to be riding, in a group or otherwise.

Shrek X · 07-07-2009, 02:57 PM

^^ our twisties?

and your right, you guys dont really do a "group ride", you go out and run twisties, or race, or whatever ... depending on who you talk to

h2oboy · 07-07-2009, 03:55 PM

I was following a group of crusiers up corn pass a couple weeks ago and they scared the shit outta me.
They were side by side in the corners and nut to butt.
A couple of them looked like noobies and I was scared one of them in particular was going to go down every single corner.

How is that safe??

In all of the group rides I've been on when the twisties come up we go into single file mode and give each other space.

When I come out of a section of twisties I always wait until I see the headlight of the guy behind me before continuing on. And we have always regrouped at intersections and stopsigns/lights.

mfrankpdx · 07-07-2009, 04:19 PM

Rear brake?

I don't use that unless I'm on a gravel road.

saltlick · 07-07-2009, 04:28 PM

hmm, how would you NOT line up single file to go through the turns? You need the whole lane so you can aim for the apex of the turn then line yourself up for the next apex. You mean theres riders out there that just go through the turns willy nilly? >> Joke...meant a joke....

Shrek X · 07-07-2009, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by h2oboy

I was following a group of crusiers up corn pass a couple weeks ago and they scared the shit outta me.
They were side by side in the corners and nut to butt.
A couple of them looked like noobies and I was scared one of them in particular was going to go down every single corner.

How is that safe??

In all of the group rides I've been on when the twisties come up we go into single file mode and give each other space.

When I come out of a section of twisties I always wait until I see the headlight of the guy behind me before continuing on. And we have always regrouped at intersections and stopsigns/lights.

are you saying you cant go through corners without using the whole lane?

all I know is that I dont ever hear about someone going down on a cruiser ride, every other sport bike ride someone is being raked off the pavement.

pv2 · 07-07-2009, 05:28 PM

I dn't need brakes as much as a lot of people as I usually keep my revs above 4.5K RPM. Then that V2 of mine slows things down quite a lot once I let off the fuel.
front brake to peel speed as primary.

rear brake to peel speed as secondary - Gravel Primary

Having the ability to use rear properly in wet leaves is a good idea.

For me, never shyed off of using rear; however, I know the resultant of careless use. Do you really want to lock that puppy up, stop a good stabilization gyro, unless of course this is an advanced manuvering technique.

I want to use as many tools as possible for every eventuality, practice, practice!

But this is me, my path, has been OK to now.

h2oboy · 07-07-2009, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Shrek X

are you saying you cant go through corners without using the whole lane?

It doesn't really have anything to do with if I can or not. It has to do with, what happens if there is something in one half of the lane?

If anything would have come into the road in front of them I'm sure that it would have been like bowling pins. They had no safety margin at all. Well besides going 5-10 under the recommended speed for the corner

For me the fun is in the corners, it's not in the straights and hanging out in a formation so I can look badass (to the unknowing). I'm not saying that I even have to be close to "railing" them. But I do like a little bit of lean angle. Riding to me is the closest thing to flying that I can think of and have done while still being on the ground.

Since the #1 reason for single rider crashes is "failing to negotiate a corner" I can see why sportbikes would go down more than cruisers (based on my observations). Sportbikes seek out the corners, the more the merrier. Cruisers avoid them.

kmannth · 07-07-2009, 05:45 PM

I don't think this cruizer v. sport bike argument is going anywhere. It never will and people are always going to disagree about which one is best (for 1000 reasons).

Short answer is we all ride bikes and have fun!

pv2 · 07-07-2009, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by kmannth

I don't think this cruizer v. sport bike argument is going anywhere. It never will and people are always going to disagree about which one is best (for 1000 reasons).

Short answer is we all ride bikes and have fun!

Different strokes for different folks and so on and so on and skooby dooby doobie!

Ohhhh sha sha We got to live to-gether

I am no better and neither are you.

pV2 is the coolest what ever you do.

There was a time where it was 2stroke vs 4stroke yeah?

ninja-rida · 07-07-2009, 05:57 PM

pv2 · 07-07-2009, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by ninja-rida

Now I know what UPS means!

Shrek X · 07-07-2009, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by kmannth

I don't think this cruizer v. sport bike argument is going anywhere. It never will and people are always going to disagree about which one is best (for 1000 reasons).

Short answer is we all ride bikes and have fun!

pretty much the way I see it

Shrek X · 07-07-2009, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by h2oboy

Since the #1 reason for single rider crashes is "failing to negotiate a corner" I can see why sportbikes would go down more than cruisers (based on my observations). Sportbikes seek out the corners, the more the merrier. Cruisers avoid them.

dont really avoid, but not the reason to ride, I learned that I wont be able to hit that point where I am at the 90%+ anymore, just to fast and dangerous with to many unknowns, so I have taken the enjoyment in a different direction and enjoying all the road.

Transported · 07-07-2009, 06:08 PM

Yes, but a cruiser noted that it is our chosen vehicle that leads to our frequent crashes (that and having bad examples setting pace).

We may have uncovered the difference between cruisers and sportbikers: sportbikers seek the ultimate in cornering thrills. I'm not sure what cruisers like. Maybe the same thing, only in more mundane doses.

Because even the most mild-mannered among us sportbikers crave the sensation of laying a bike into a turn, then it is even more imperative that we obtain good instruction.

So, yes to any kind of riding that imparts the wisdom to keep us rolling another day.

Yes to lots of miles with safe riders.

Yes to taking tips from safe and competent riders.

Yes to attending clinics and reading books by experts.

Yes to track days and formal off-street instruction.

But, no to saying it's all too dangerous and I'm going to get a cruiser to enjoy seeing and being seen.

I've often said a sportbike is like having a rollercoaster in your garage that will go anywhere you want to go. Along with the thrills, there is a lot of personal responsibility.

Lee650 · 07-07-2009, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Shrek X

^^ I agree with Lee about the new rider not using the rear brake for a month or two of riding, to get accustomed to the front end dive and know how much power they have (along with probably figuring out what a front end washout is). ..

I highly disagree with riding anything over ~50% and not using the rear brake, thats like trying to run a race with only one shoe on, the rear doesn’t provide a lot of power, but it does provide stability and adds a great deal to overall control.

The heavier and longer wheelbase bike( cruiser types) will benefit more from the rear brake then a sport bike which will lock up much faster. But it's always best to learn how to use both. Just not many go out and practice the art of stopping.

California Pizza.

Shrek X · 07-07-2009, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Lee650

The heavier and longer wheelbase bike( cruiser types) will benefit more from the rear brake then a sport bike which will lock up much faster. But it's always best to learn how to use both. Just not many go out and practice the art of stopping.

California Pizza.

true, when setting up for a corner, the faster you can take off speed the longer you can stay in the throttle before you have to brake in the first place... so, even if the rear adds 3%, thats 3% more stop than you had before, and 3% more you can stay moving hard forward.

agreed, I recomend people spend days on both, switch, then combine...

Shrek X · 07-07-2009, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Transported

Yes, but a cruiser noted that it is our chosen vehicle that leads to our frequent crashes (that and having bad examples setting pace).

no, actually the facts did.

We may have uncovered the difference between cruisers and sportbikers: sportbikers seek the ultimate in cornering thrills. I'm not sure what cruisers like. Maybe the same thing, only in more mundane doses.

Pretty one dimentional dont ya think?

Because even the most mild-mannered among us sportbikers crave the sensation of laying a bike into a turn, then it is even more imperative that we obtain good instruction.

you are the voice for sport bike riders?

So, yes to any kind of riding that imparts the wisdom to keep us rolling another day.

Yes to lots of miles with safe riders.

Yes to taking tips from safe and competent riders.

Yes to attending clinics and reading books by experts.

Yes to track days and formal off-street instruction.

But, no to saying it's all too dangerous and I'm going to get a cruiser to enjoy seeing and being seen.

I am guessing you will get to a place where pushing it on the street just introduces to many variables at to high of a speed to be enjoyed anymore. I figure thats when riders mature enough to go to the track or get bikes that just roll down the highway.

I've often said a sportbike is like having a rollercoaster in your garage that will go anywhere you want to go. Along with the thrills, there is a lot of personal responsibility.

Unfortunately many don't practice that

smnilla · 07-07-2009, 08:44 PM

When i first found this site, i had probably ridden 1000 street miles, on an old 400cc cruiser.

i got a vasty inferior 1100cc bike and went on some group rides with people like michael (MCA) azedin (az_636), mark (shit talker

), mike (cbrinpdx), lee, DGA, soil etc... they could all ride circles around me while standing on their seats, these were not newbie rides...

i made decisions for myself while on these rides, even though they were far enough ahead that i could not see them a lot of the time, and the only thing that kept me relatively close was WOT tripping on straights. i made the decision for myself how fast i could go, and what i wanted to do. the thought never crossed my mind to be mad, annoyed, or to blame them for riding fast and leaving me behind. what did cross my mind was getting better and increasing my skills, confidence, and machine and being able to keep up.

people need to take responsibility for themselves, why would you need someone to tell you to ride at your own pace and not crash and die? this is common sense and frankly i think its an insult if someone says this to me.

I did ride above my skill level at times, how are you going to get better if you never try to go faster? you have to weight the risks and rewards and decide if its worth it, if you push yourself in a controlled manner you should be ok. but life is inherently dangerous...

this is all common sense people should know. but the blame game is taught at an early age. the first thing into a lot of people's minds is to find someone to blame to make themselves feel better, feel like they are being screwed in some way, it wasn't their fault...etc...

apathy is destroying the world.

i see a lot of talking by shrekx, i wonder if his personal emotions are coming out, maybe he is left behind? maybe he doesn't have the ability mental or physical to ride fast safely? making these posts and saying who should do what and where and how is his way of expressing these thoughts. he keeps saying no one knows me, no one knows how i ride, no one knows what i've done, etc... thats true, you never come out and ride fast, you have a cruiser which you will not be riding to the level of people on sport bikes (yea i've seen the goldwing video several times and thats not shrekx).

come out and ride fast, these are mild rides, that can get decent in some corners. we want to see how you lead a ride if you are too slow for too long mark will pass you on a blind corner in the gravel.

Shrek X · 07-07-2009, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by smnilla

When i first found this site, i had probably ridden 1000 street miles, on an old 400cc cruiser.

i got a vasty inferior 1100cc bike and went on some group rides with people like michael (MCA) azedin (az_636), mark (shit talker

), mike (cbrinpdx), lee, DGA, soil etc... they could all ride circles around me while standing on their seats, these were not newbie rides...

i made decisions for myself while on these rides, even though they were far enough ahead that i could not see them a lot of the time, and the only thing that kept me relatively close was WOT tripping on straights. i made the decision for myself how fast i could go, and what i wanted to do. the thought never crossed my mind to be mad, annoyed, or to blame them for riding fast and leaving me behind. what did cross my mind was getting better and increasing my skills, confidence, and machine and being able to keep up.

people need to take responsibility for themselves, why would you need someone to tell you to ride at your own pace and not crash and die? this is common sense and frankly i think its an insult if someone says this to me.

I did ride above my skill level at times, how are you going to get better if you never try to go faster? you have to weight the risks and rewards and decide if its worth it, if you push yourself in a controlled manner you should be ok. but life is inherently dangerous...

this is all common sense people should know. but the blame game is taught at an early age. the first thing into a lot of people's minds is to find someone to blame to make themselves feel better, feel like they are being screwed in some way, it wasn't their fault...etc...

apathy is destroying the world.

i see a lot of talking by shrekx, i wonder if his personal emotions are coming out, maybe he is left behind? maybe he doesn't have the ability mental or physical to ride fast safely? making these posts and saying who should do what and where and how is his way of expressing these thoughts. he keeps saying no one knows me, no one knows how i ride, no one knows what i've done, etc... thats true, you never come out and ride fast, you have a cruiser which you will not be riding to the level of people on sport bikes (yea i've seen the goldwing video several times and thats not shrekx).

come out and ride fast on wednesdays, these are mild rides, that can get decent in some corners. we want to see how you lead a ride if you are too slow for too long mark will pass you on a blind corner in the gravel.

yea, thats me. I have posted many rides and will post more in the future... feel free to come along... as for calling my out and playing the little "is he man enough" games... fuck off boy, sorry you cant handle someone calling things like they are.

smnilla · 07-07-2009, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by Shrek X

yea, thats me. I have posted many rides and will post more in the future... feel free to come along... as for calling my out and playing the little "is he man enough" games... fuck off boy, sorry you cant handle someone calling things like they are.

everything you've said has been completely baseless, not to mention idiotic. like the rest of the horseshit you spam on these forums.

only a woman (and not very many) would think its right for someone who has crashed to blame a person who rides faster than them, even if the reason you crashes is that you were trying to stay with someone, its still your fucking fault...

yea i know you are big goofy looking tough guy thats great i don't think you can walk the walk, i've seen people call you out on these forums before and nothing has even came of it.

i have NEVER seen anyone blame a ride leader for their crash, never... even if they are thinking it in their head they don't come out and say it because they know it would be dumb, and would make themselves look stupid.

how are you going to out ride anyone on a vtx?

Shrek X · 07-07-2009, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by smnilla

everything you've said has been completely baseless, not to mention idiotic. like the rest of the horseshit you spam on these forums.

only a woman (and not very many) would think its right for someone who has crashed to blame a person who rides faster than them.

yea i know you are big goofy looking tough guy thats great i don't think you can walk the walk, i've seen people call you out on these forums before and nothing has even came of it.

i have NEVER seen anyone blame a ride leader for their crash, never... even if they are thinking it in their head they don't come out and say it because they know it would be dumb, and would make themselves look stupid.

how are you going to out ride anyone on a vtx?

as is typical with a keyboard cowboy, you don't have anything to back yourself, so you try and attack the person. not worth my time ace, and who ever said anything about outriding anyone? do you really think I have something to prove to you? your a joke, now go back downstairs to your room, your mama wants to use the commuter.

smnilla · 07-07-2009, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Shrek X

you obey the traffic laws

instant failure.

your sweet hardcore rides where you obey all traffic laws, boy thats exciting. on wonder no one who follows you has ever crashed

smnilla · 07-07-2009, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by Shrek X

as is typical with a keyboard cowboy, you don't have anything to back yourself, so you try and attack the person. not worth my time ace, and who ever said anything about outriding anyone? do you really think I have something to prove to you? your a joke, now go back downstairs to your room, your mama wants to use the commuter.

you really... really can't be this stupid.

you just called me a keyboard cowboy, "nothing to back yourself" "so you attack the person".

THEN YOU DO THE EXACT SAME THING.

fucking retards i swear.

ok, lets get to the bottom line, whose fauilt is it that you're a fucking dumbass? mom? dad? teachers? old boyfriend? michael jackson? who?

ninja-rida · 07-07-2009, 09:42 PM


07-07-2009, 09:16 AM	#203
spaceroc5 WMRRA Qualifier Joined: Jul 2008 From: Milwaukie I Ride: In The Zone	I crashed on my 1st group ride last july. It was a beginner ride hosted by Mfrankpdx. Everything was well orginized and explained in the pre-ride meeting. The pace was slow with no surprizes and I felt comfy. I felt like I was riding at 50-60% of my ability. Then after lunch we went from 30 to 8 and I over cooked a corner entry and locked the rear and high sided. I was riding at what I thought was my 60% but was more like 90. Only through seat time and a few hundred laps at the track have I come to realize this. I was souly responsible for my Wreck! If I were on that ride today I would have been board and riding with 1 hand in all corners My point is n00bs don't Know there 60% or really what is safe for them. I didn't after putting 4000 miles on that bike first. I am usually self taught on most thing so it didn't serve me well when learning to ride. So N00Bs go learn at the track and from a good mentor trust me you need both! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-07-2009, 09:58 AM	#207
pv2 Streetfighter Joined: Jun 2008 From: Portland, Oregon I Ride: 03 RC51 SP-2	now I am going to shut up. See you at AVA Coffee, safe and sound! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-07-2009, 12:46 PM	#208
saltlick Pit Crew Joined: Mar 2009 From: Beaverton, Oregon I Ride: Buell Lightning XB9S	i use to show up at group rides and announce to everyone that i am the slowest bastard in town, so dont wait up for me ill see you at the next (stop sign, place where the road forks) everyone would laugh and that seemed to take the pressure off myself. As i got better i still announced that, but then noticed i was keeping up with the riders in front so i quit saying it. It helped though in the beginning. I dont think its the responsibility of the leader to slow down cause of the new riders, hell hes gotta have fun too, but i do think its his deal to make sure everyone shows up at the stopping points, or forks in the road. Maybe preplan where everyone will stop and regroup. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-07-2009, 01:10 PM	#210
Shrek X Mr. 500,000 Joined: Dec 2006 From: Portland I Ride: VTX	^^ I agree with Lee about the new rider not using the rear brake for a month or two of riding, to get accustomed to the front end dive and know how much power they have (along with probably figuring out what a front end washout is). .. I highly disagree with riding anything over ~50% and not using the rear brake, thats like trying to run a race with only one shoe on, the rear doesn’t provide a lot of power, but it does provide stability and adds a great deal to overall control. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-07-2009, 01:24 PM	#211
Saki.Girl Zone Head Joined: May 2007 From: Hillsboro OR Blog Entries: 1 I Ride: 2006 Ninja 650R	Ok I have been quiet on this whole thread, but I have to disagree and give my 2 cents. Oh I am sure will get flamed, but, oh well. First off, if you are a noob, you most certainly should know if you are riding over your head. If you are having “oh shit” moments then hell yeah you’re over your head and need to slow down. That does not take a rocket scientist to figure out. Maybe for guys it is more of trying to be cool and keep up with the big boys. If that is the case, put your ego to the side; this is one dangerous sport we do and no room for some stupid ego crap. I sure as hell knew what my riding ability was as a noob and if I needed to slow my ass down even now I know what it is. I sure as hell better know what my riding ability is or I have no business having my ass on a motorcycle. It is my responsibility to know it and no one else’s. As far as the mentor rides and mentee rides, I think I have been to almost all of them and they are well organized and I have learned a lot. There is no racing going on, just good people giving some information to new riders. For someone just learning, this is priceless. As far as if the mentoring works, well, for those of you that have known me for a long time my riding now proves it works. Without the great mentors I have had, no way would I be where my riding is now. With the information they gave me and lots of seat time and practice I am at a whole new level of riding with yes much more to learn. But, without them, no way would I have realized hey you are not really looking thru your corner when I thought I was is just one example of how something so small can make a huge difference. Anyone can give you information. It is up to you to decide if that is information you want to use and or if you feel that person knows what they are talking about. As far as a group ride I do not agree that I should have to keep someone in my mirror 24/7. If there is a turn off yes I am going to stop. If it has been some time, then yes I will turn around and check on them. But, I should be able to enjoy my ride also. If you are on a group ride and someone who has been riding say 3 months is behind you, then heck no they are not at your level, so why should I not be able to enjoy my ride also? Now if this was a mentee/mentor ride or a noob ride, then that is different. Yes, I would be riding slow and keeping them in my mirrors. But if this is just a group ride to go out and ride, then no I do not feel that keeping you in my mirror the whole time is a must. Yes will I look out for a fellow rider heck ya. I would not expect someone who’s riding skill is above mine to not be able to enjoy their ride and have to keep me in there mirror all the time because I am slower than they are. I would expect them to stop at turns and ya if it had been a long time since they had seen me to turn around and check on me. Do I think to always take a head count to make sure all are accounted for? That is a big yes. And, if someone is taking off, then yes let someone know so people are not looking for you. OK. Now can we just all get along and go ride __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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07-07-2009, 01:36 PM	#212
saltlick Pit Crew Joined: Mar 2009 From: Beaverton, Oregon I Ride: Buell Lightning XB9S	but wait theres moar! Which leads to the next part, which is dont forget to give out the group leaders cell phone number...why? One of my first group rides i got left behind and came to an area where it split, i didnt know which way to go so i just turned around and went home. Little did i know the guys turned back and went looking for me. I guess they spent some time retracing our steps looking in the ditches for me. I didnt feel too bad cause they didnt stop at the fork in the road. If you are truly going to follow the "no rider left behind" scenario unless you tell everyone before the ride that if they are going to cut out or turn around call your number and leave a message. That way the ride aint ruined looking for someone that aint there. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-07-2009, 02:44 PM	#216
Transported MotoGP Champion Joined: Dec 2006 From: Portland, Oregon Blog Entries: 1 I Ride: '99 R1, '80 Suz GS450S	Shrek, I was out this weekend and saw a miniature of your group ride. They were snout to ass, hardly needing to lean at their speeds, and had an SUV backed up behind them. I've seen groups of cruisers on our twisties from time to time and all they needed to be confused with a parade was a float bringing up the rear. That is not what sportbikers consider to be riding, in a group or otherwise. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by Transported; 07-07-2009 at 02:47 PM..


07-07-2009, 02:57 PM	#217
Shrek X Mr. 500,000 Joined: Dec 2006 From: Portland I Ride: VTX	^^ our twisties? and your right, you guys dont really do a "group ride", you go out and run twisties, or race, or whatever ... depending on who you talk to __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by Shrek X; 07-07-2009 at 03:27 PM..


07-07-2009, 03:55 PM	#218
h2oboy WMRRA Qualifier Joined: Nov 2008 From: Hillsboro, Or I Ride: 06 FZ WTF is that? , 06 WeeStrom, 05 FZ6 mini tourer	I was following a group of crusiers up corn pass a couple weeks ago and they scared the shit outta me. They were side by side in the corners and nut to butt. A couple of them looked like noobies and I was scared one of them in particular was going to go down every single corner. How is that safe?? In all of the group rides I've been on when the twisties come up we go into single file mode and give each other space. When I come out of a section of twisties I always wait until I see the headlight of the guy behind me before continuing on. And we have always regrouped at intersections and stopsigns/lights. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-07-2009, 04:19 PM	#219
mfrankpdx Moderator Joined: Jul 2007 From: Portland I Ride: '07 R1, '08 WR250X	Rear brake? I don't use that unless I'm on a gravel road. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-07-2009, 04:28 PM	#220
saltlick Pit Crew Joined: Mar 2009 From: Beaverton, Oregon I Ride: Buell Lightning XB9S	hmm, how would you NOT line up single file to go through the turns? You need the whole lane so you can aim for the apex of the turn then line yourself up for the next apex. You mean theres riders out there that just go through the turns willy nilly? >> Joke...meant a joke.... __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-07-2009, 05:28 PM	#222
pv2 Streetfighter Joined: Jun 2008 From: Portland, Oregon I Ride: 03 RC51 SP-2	I dn't need brakes as much as a lot of people as I usually keep my revs above 4.5K RPM. Then that V2 of mine slows things down quite a lot once I let off the fuel. front brake to peel speed as primary. rear brake to peel speed as secondary - Gravel Primary Having the ability to use rear properly in wet leaves is a good idea. For me, never shyed off of using rear; however, I know the resultant of careless use. Do you really want to lock that puppy up, stop a good stabilization gyro, unless of course this is an advanced manuvering technique. I want to use as many tools as possible for every eventuality, practice, practice! But this is me, my path, has been OK to now. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-07-2009, 05:45 PM	#224
kmannth Pit Crew Joined: Jun 2008 From: Portland Oregon I Ride: 01 Speed Triple/Suzuki RF900 95	I don't think this cruizer v. sport bike argument is going anywhere. It never will and people are always going to disagree about which one is best (for 1000 reasons). Short answer is we all ride bikes and have fun! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-07-2009, 05:57 PM	#226
ninja-rida Zone Head Joined: Apr 2008 From: Da Hood I Ride: 2006 ZX-6R	__________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-07-2009, 06:08 PM	#230
Transported MotoGP Champion Joined: Dec 2006 From: Portland, Oregon Blog Entries: 1 I Ride: '99 R1, '80 Suz GS450S	Yes, but a cruiser noted that it is our chosen vehicle that leads to our frequent crashes (that and having bad examples setting pace). We may have uncovered the difference between cruisers and sportbikers: sportbikers seek the ultimate in cornering thrills. I'm not sure what cruisers like. Maybe the same thing, only in more mundane doses. Because even the most mild-mannered among us sportbikers crave the sensation of laying a bike into a turn, then it is even more imperative that we obtain good instruction. So, yes to any kind of riding that imparts the wisdom to keep us rolling another day. Yes to lots of miles with safe riders. Yes to taking tips from safe and competent riders. Yes to attending clinics and reading books by experts. Yes to track days and formal off-street instruction. But, no to saying it's all too dangerous and I'm going to get a cruiser to enjoy seeing and being seen. I've often said a sportbike is like having a rollercoaster in your garage that will go anywhere you want to go. Along with the thrills, there is a lot of personal responsibility. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-07-2009, 08:44 PM	#234
smnilla Newbie Joined: Jul 2009 From: ID	When i first found this site, i had probably ridden 1000 street miles, on an old 400cc cruiser. i got a vasty inferior 1100cc bike and went on some group rides with people like michael (MCA) azedin (az_636), mark (shit talker ), mike (cbrinpdx), lee, DGA, soil etc... they could all ride circles around me while standing on their seats, these were not newbie rides... i made decisions for myself while on these rides, even though they were far enough ahead that i could not see them a lot of the time, and the only thing that kept me relatively close was WOT tripping on straights. i made the decision for myself how fast i could go, and what i wanted to do. the thought never crossed my mind to be mad, annoyed, or to blame them for riding fast and leaving me behind. what did cross my mind was getting better and increasing my skills, confidence, and machine and being able to keep up. people need to take responsibility for themselves, why would you need someone to tell you to ride at your own pace and not crash and die? this is common sense and frankly i think its an insult if someone says this to me. I did ride above my skill level at times, how are you going to get better if you never try to go faster? you have to weight the risks and rewards and decide if its worth it, if you push yourself in a controlled manner you should be ok. but life is inherently dangerous... this is all common sense people should know. but the blame game is taught at an early age. the first thing into a lot of people's minds is to find someone to blame to make themselves feel better, feel like they are being screwed in some way, it wasn't their fault...etc... apathy is destroying the world. i see a lot of talking by shrekx, i wonder if his personal emotions are coming out, maybe he is left behind? maybe he doesn't have the ability mental or physical to ride fast safely? making these posts and saying who should do what and where and how is his way of expressing these thoughts. he keeps saying no one knows me, no one knows how i ride, no one knows what i've done, etc... thats true, you never come out and ride fast, you have a cruiser which you will not be riding to the level of people on sport bikes (yea i've seen the goldwing video several times and thats not shrekx). come out and ride fast, these are mild rides, that can get decent in some corners. we want to see how you lead a ride if you are too slow for too long mark will pass you on a blind corner in the gravel. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by smnilla; 07-07-2009 at 10:05 PM..


07-07-2009, 09:42 PM	#240
ninja-rida Zone Head Joined: Apr 2008 From: Da Hood I Ride: 2006 ZX-6R	__________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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