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Old 09-28-2012, 04:13 PM   #21
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Joined: Jan 2007
From: Washington County

I Ride: when the weather is nice
^^^ I think this might be a little overboard. Consider the post from Cletus above. Were you a perfect driver when you first started? Do you make mistakes from time to time even now?

This was a horrible crash in any event and it has impacted many lives, not just the motorcyclist and the driver. Dale certainly had people who loved him, probably a family. I doubt that the driver of the vehicle takes this lightly either.

Motorcycling is a dangerous hobby. Yes, we love it but the consequences of accidents, even those we cause, even those where we are the only person involved, can be serious. And collisions are not always the fault of the car. Remember earlier this summer, not five miles away from this incident, when a motorcyclist killed himself and his passenger and seriously injured two people in a truck that he ran into?

Let's not be so quick to lambast the motorist here. Yes, she was at fault. No dispute but leave the vengeance out of the discussion. There is another takeaway from this incident. Do you have enough health coverage to ensure your care if you are seriously injured? Do you have things in place for your family or loved ones if you don't make it?

Lots of things to consider with this or any other fatal crash regardless of fault. It's a sad situation no matter how you look at it.

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Last edited by 307T; 09-28-2012 at 04:16 PM..
 

Old 09-28-2012, 04:42 PM   #22
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Joined: Jan 2008
From: Redmond

I Ride: 1997 TL1000S, 2010 KTM 690 Enduro R, 2013 KTM 500 Exc, 2008 KTM 530 Xcw,
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by 307T View Post
^^^ I think this might be a little overboard. Consider the post from Cletus above. Were you a perfect driver when you first started? Do you make mistakes from time to time even now?

This was a horrible crash in any event and it has impacted many lives, not just the motorcyclist and the driver. Dale certainly had people who loved him, probably a family. I doubt that the driver of the vehicle takes this lightly either.

Motorcycling is a dangerous hobby. Yes, we love it but the consequences of accidents, even those we cause, even those where we are the only person involved, can be serious. And collisions are not always the fault of the car. Remember earlier this summer, not five miles away from this incident, when a motorcyclist killed himself and his passenger and seriously injured two people in a truck that he ran into?

Let's not be so quick to lambast the motorist here. Yes, she was at fault. No dispute but leave the vengeance out of the discussion. There is another takeaway from this incident. Do you have enough health coverage to ensure your care if you are seriously injured? Do you have things in place for your family or loved ones if you don't make it?

Lots of things to consider with this or any other fatal crash regardless of fault. It's a sad situation no matter how you look at it.
This is an internet forum. Please edit your post to remove all logic, empathy, compassion and assumptions. Just read the article, know it wasn't an accident, and form a posse.

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Old 09-28-2012, 05:58 PM   #23
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OP
 
Joined: Apr 2012
From: Portland, Oregon

I Ride: DRZ 400 S
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by 307T View Post
Motorcycling is a dangerous hobby.
no: this is not a hobby, not flying kites, not building models; it is a personal choice. We are responsible, every day, every moment, every corner, every time someone else chooses to put us in the grave. We mustbe responsible for how we are going to react, how we will save ourselves so that our family does not pay the price. Our people, our children, depend on us to come home alive. Ride safe: be AWARE: go home alive.

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Last edited by Ryel; 09-28-2012 at 06:04 PM..
 
Old 09-28-2012, 06:58 PM   #24
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Joined: Aug 2012
From: Spokane WA

I Ride: 72 250CR Husky, 01 YZ426F , 03 XR650L, 05 KTM 525EXC, 05 Yamaha VMax, 76 Honda CB750K6,others
Angry Motorcyclist always at fault
You know it, and I know it, the person riding the bike is ALWAYS the cause of the accident. This will never change.

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Old 09-28-2012, 07:27 PM   #25
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Joined: Jan 2007
From: Washington County

I Ride: when the weather is nice
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryel View Post
no: this is not a hobby, not flying kites, not building models; it is a personal choice.
From Webster's:

Hobby - a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation.

That may not define it for you but it does for me.

“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryel View Post
We are responsible, every day, every moment, every corner, every time someone else chooses to put us in the grave. We must be responsible for how we are going to react, how we will save ourselves so that our family does not pay the price. Our people, our children, depend on us to come home alive. Ride safe: be AWARE: go home alive.
All of this is true but I can tell you this from personal experience, riding safe and aware is not always enough. In spite of everything else you may not be able to avoid a situation that is presented to you.

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Old 09-29-2012, 12:25 AM   #26
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Joined: Feb 2010
From: Milwaukie Oregon

I Ride: 01GSXR750, 06GSXR750 ,88GSXR1100 & project in boxes
RIP rider . I think yes it's an accident but there should be some very stiff fines and maybe no driving till at least 18 years old or even 21 . Sent an example that killing pedestrians , Bicyclist , Motorcyclist or even someone in a cage should have some stiff penalties . No more of this slap on the hand shit . It's not an accident of something that just happened with no ones input . The driver fk'd up and lost control of a SUV and Killed someone . This is not one of those OOPS moments where you can say ' I'm sorry " and that somehow waves a magic wand on it all and makes everything better.

I've had alot of great days to go ride my motorcycle but I've passed them up do to all the deaths and crazy driving I've seen lately . Shit like this just makes me want to hang it up for good . Sure as shit don't want to be laying in the road again bleeding and waiting for lifeflight OR slowly dying .

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Old 09-29-2012, 01:05 AM   #27
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Joined: Aug 2008
From: Where the snow falls
Blog Entries: 3

I Ride: one with two wheels
Tragic accident aside, some of you guys are acting like she did this drunk, or on the phone. Sadly, she was inexperienced at driving. I feel the brunt of the punishment should be placed on the adult who allowed her to drive.

I don't know if you guys remember driving on a learners permit, but I do. I worked at a restaurant, and my mom took me too and picked me up from work. She always drove the highway portion, and we switched in a parking lot so I could drive the calmer, quiter, slower roads. I wanted to drive the whole thing, but my mom was being a wise parent; making decisions for me in my best interest when I didn't have the maturity or experience to make that choice myself.

She's 15. She is old enough to understand the severity of what she did, but she is likely not old enough to understand the responsibly she had driving in that condition. She will live with that remorse all her life. Send her adult passenger to jail for not being the adult.

I can tell you this, if it was me that was killed in this situation. As a ghost I would feel so sorry for this girl. My life would be over, but there would be no need to ruin her's with jail time, etc. She is 15 for fucks sake. But the asshole that let her drive, that person should pay.

That's my worthless opinion.

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Old 09-29-2012, 01:12 AM   #28
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Joined: Aug 2011
From: Seattle, Wa.
Sux for the rider...... But it looks like the shitty drivers out here are still reproducing other shitty drivers.....

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Old 09-29-2012, 02:09 AM   #29
OOk
beansbaxter is too lazy to come up with something but he will get to it, eventually...
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Joined: Sep 2005
From: kerklund
Blog Entries: 22
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by blueline15 View Post
Tragic accident aside, some of you guys are acting like she did this drunk, or on the phone. Sadly, she was inexperienced at driving.
Exactly, you shouldn't be learning how to drive in a 3 ton vehicle. And don't give me that shit about every vehicle being deadly. Yes they are, but a suburban's bumper is completely different than a civic's, in height and inertia.
I'm all for scaled licenses, bike or car. Driving is NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT.

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Old 09-29-2012, 08:49 AM   #30
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Joined: May 2012
From: Ridgefield WA
I don't get it.
Everyone says motorcycling is "SUPER DANGEROUS" you are taking your life in your hands.
Well obviously, that gives doesn't mean people should be able to make mistakes, take your life, and get off without repercussions.
Sure. Logic can come into play.
If I am not following the law - going 100 in a 50, and someone makes a left in front of me. Well I probably had that coming. How are they supposed to know I'm doubling the speed limit? Sure, they could be smart and be like, wow he is coming at me fast, but going at a high rate of speed is my choice.

Now if I am in a corner, doing the speed limit, and a car cuts the corner and hits me. That is their fault, they were not in their lane.


If you kill someone in their lane its your damn fault, and how the fuck do you lose control of an SUV during the day.(or night lol?) I don't believe it was raining or anything.

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Old 09-29-2012, 08:51 AM   #31
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Joined: May 2012
From: Ridgefield WA
This was her fault, I don't care if she was inexperienced. I do not know the road she was on, but I have my right to make careless opinions to rage about.
She should have just took the SUV off the road.

Take yourself out, not another.
You have no right to kill another human being, only yourself (you don't even have this right in America:\)

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Old 09-29-2012, 10:06 AM   #32
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Joined: Mar 2011
From: here going there.

I Ride: because I can.
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Zito View Post
Since when was a suburban considered an ok vehicle for kids to learn how to drive in? Maybe they should have stuck her in a freightliner first. Idiots.
Might be the only vehicle they had? I have to agree with you though. Given the information in the article ... clearly the thing was beyond her ability to control it. Was she able to see over the steering wheel? ... The hood? I see this a lot. Look through the rear window and can't see a driver. All the driving school cars, I've seen on the road, are little cars.

Accident? I think not. She was/is a road hazard. That may not be her fault (somebody allowed her to get behind the wheel), but it don't change the reality of it ... the man is dead.

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Old 09-29-2012, 10:37 AM   #33
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Joined: Jul 2008
From: beaverton

I Ride: Kaw14
Now its my understanding that Oregon doesn't require kids to take drivers ed. like when I was a teen. How many drivers on the road haven't had proper class and simulator training?
Also there have been incidents where cars have swerved into police cars like state police cars and the driver gets a ticket automatically for not keeping their vehicle in their own lane. Does this not apply to a teen are they some protected class? Or maybe they didn't kill a cop.
I might also add that I can't remember bouncing off a curb and swerving out of control into the oncoming lane ever in my life even as a teen. How about letting them drive out on some deserted side streets till they learn how to manage a vehicle.

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Old 09-29-2012, 12:54 PM   #34
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Joined: Jul 2009
From: Beaverton

I Ride: Harley FLHTCU
Time out please.

I think that the DA will need to decide the charges here. There is more then just one driver, there is the 15 year old behind the wheel AND the parent who was helping her. We do not know who threw the wheel to cross the line, was it the 15 year old OR did the parent grab the wheel and over correct?
Then there is the question to whom is responsible for the control of the vehicle? The licensed driver or the 15 year old.

The way I see it, the 15 year old will get sighted for the vehicle leaving the roadway, but the parent will get the ticket for crossing the center line and causing the accident.

We should know next week or so.

BTW, Dale was the service manager of Landmark Ford and a guy I knew. He was not in my HOG club but he did come on a couple ride. Good guy and a good rider, he will be missed.

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Old 09-29-2012, 01:17 PM   #35
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Joined: Aug 2008
From: Where the snow falls
Blog Entries: 3

I Ride: one with two wheels
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by OOk View Post
Exactly, you shouldn't be learning how to drive in a 3 ton vehicle. And don't give me that shit about every vehicle being deadly. Yes they are, but a suburban's bumper is completely different than a civic's, in height and inertia.
I'm all for scaled licenses, bike or car. Driving is NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT.
I'm also for scaled licenses. In this case, suburban or geo it probably wouldn't have mattered. Certainly though a suburban will carry more energy at impact scientifically. Maybe it would make a difference in a vehicle-vehicle collision. It's sad because science also shows that 15 and 16 tear old brains haven't developed the motor and coordination skills need to drive a car safely.

Maybe a tier system of driving on roads at or below 35mph, then 45 mph or below, 60 or below, and then 70 or below.

Anyone know the speed limit on that road?

Sorry to hear Jeff. You're right, there are questions that need answered. I feel the passenger adult should have more legal responsibility then this 15 year old kid.

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Old 09-29-2012, 01:27 PM   #36
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Joined: Nov 2007
From: .
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“ Quote:
Originally Posted by OOk View Post
Exactly, you shouldn't be learning how to drive in a 3 ton vehicle. And don't give me that shit about every vehicle being deadly. Yes they are, but a suburban's bumper is completely different than a civic's, in height and inertia.
I'm all for scaled licenses, bike or car. Driving is NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT.
.

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Old 09-29-2012, 06:07 PM   #37
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Joined: Mar 2008
From: SE Portland / Bucerias, Nayarit Mx

I Ride: 03' CBR1100XX, 84 GL1200A
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by OOk View Post
Exactly, you shouldn't be learning how to drive in a 3 ton vehicle. And don't give me that shit about every vehicle being deadly. Yes they are, but a suburban's bumper is completely different than a civic's, in height and inertia.
I'm all for scaled licenses, bike or car. Driving is NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT.
THIS is the typical bullshit this site is famous for. Just like rabid little cunts you get on here and post like you know how everything in the world is supposed to be according to YOU without having a fucking clue of what really happened.

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Last edited by lena; 10-04-2012 at 08:52 PM.. Reason: Warning given.
 
Old 09-29-2012, 06:48 PM   #38
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Joined: Jul 2007
From: Camas, Washington

I Ride: 05 zx12r
I learned to drive in a big block chrystler powered (stroker motor no less...) dodge "tradesman 100" shorty' van... and yes I was perfect at it:
- never drove in the ditch
- never crossed the centerline
- never killed anybody

Again if you KILL SOMEONE through your mistake (not premeditated) that is vehicular manslaughter.

Now next time he kills somebody 5-10-15 years from now his attourney will argue "he's never done anything like this before, see.. he has a clean record" and then he'll get away with that "murder" too.

People need to be held accountable for their actions!!! ( you can be damn sure if he was on a sport bike and killed a bycyclist or a pedestrian, they would not be "thinking about" weather to charge him or not... )

He's a minor, the WORST he could get would be 6 years in a juvie facility...

but at least he would be HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE LIFE HE TOOK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 09-29-2012, 06:53 PM   #39
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Joined: Jul 2005
From: Beaverton, OR

I Ride: 2009 Suzuki V Strom
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by blueline15 View Post

Anyone know the speed limit on that road?

The road changes from 45 (Scholls Ferry to just north of Bull Mtn.) to 55 from Bull Mtn. to the Sherwood City limits where it changes to 35. The crash was in the 55 zone about 1/4 mile from the 35 zone.

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Old 09-29-2012, 06:55 PM   #40
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Joined: Feb 2010
From: your moms basement

I Ride: i ride bitchrider : a 2000 triumph sprint st a 99 triumph tiger and " das car"
ib4tl

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