PNW Riders

MCA8690 · 05-28-2008, 10:11 PM

It's supposed to be 73 and sunny Friday, and since I have Fri/Sat's off, I am always looking to ride. This is also a shameless copy of Lee's planned ride for Sunday the 25th, which got scrapped due to weather.

Meet place: Gateway Starbucks
Meet time: 9:00 AM, arrived gassed up, leave 9:30 AM sharp.
Tentative route: Route
Total mileage: Near 300 roundtrip. Hope to be back in town by 4:30-5pm.
More information: I have done the Cougar/Carson/503/Wind River/Ridge portion of this ride about 4 times in the last 2 weeks (in case you can't tell, I'm obsessed with these roads), and it's an absolute blast, but there are some key spots (climbing Wind River) where the road has a fine layer of dust or gravel, and your back end can slide right out if you're not cautious. Full gear is strongly recommended (2 get-offs last time). Plan on a spirited pace. No plans on stopping for lunch as of yet, but we can obviously make a lunch stop if we're running on sched. and weather's good.

I am going to be shooting action pics of this ride (similar to THIS ride I shot..), and have about 4 positions staked out where I'll shoot you all as you blow by. I can promise excellent background pics, and the like. This is a growing hobby of mine, and I love sharing pics of others with them...
I am hoping that this will work out for everyone else who comes : )

Lee's original Sunday ride thread HERE

yamasaki · 05-28-2008, 10:31 PM

Man i was so bummed this ride didnt happen last weekend. But unfortunately, work is still callin my name on Friday. Hope you have a great and safe ride...I'll pray for the weather!

Kasey

mfrankpdx · 05-28-2008, 10:43 PM

Nice Mike. If the weather turns bad, I'll know who to blame for jinxing it. If its good, well then I'll be there! Win win situation for me

MCA8690 · 05-28-2008, 10:53 PM

Oh, yeah. Lee: I'd better see you, we all know these roads are your stomping grounds!

Maybe another video this time around? I warn you, though, I will be a camera whore and squirt in front of you, just to see what my form/cornering looks like on film

mfrankpdx · 05-28-2008, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by MCA8690

I will be a camera whore and squirt in front of you

You sound more perverted than Kevin who stares at his unit or whatever.

magnolia · 05-29-2008, 01:16 AM

Most of us were hoping that Tim gave ya a real good lesson last ride, but..

THE STREET IS NOT THE TRACK AND NOT A PLACE TO TAKE RISKS AND CERTAINLY NOT KNEE DRAGGING PICS....

Don't mean to lecture, but please be careful out there my friends, that route I have run MANY times and can be very dangerous this time of year.

When was the last time you practiced your emergency braking, mid-corner at 80 mph???? Do you have what it takes???

Ayris Vashu · 05-29-2008, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by mfrankpdx

You sound more perverted than Kevin who stares at his unit or whatever.

I have to work tomorrow, otherwise I'd be interested in the ride.

marksvfr · 05-29-2008, 06:29 AM

Count me in.

MCA8690 · 05-29-2008, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by cbrgiRRl

Most of us were hoping that Tim gave ya a real good lesson last ride, but..
THE STREET IS NOT THE TRACK AND NOT A PLACE TO TAKE RISKS AND CERTAINLY NOT KNEE DRAGGING PICS....
Don't mean to lecture, but please be careful out there my friends, that route I have run MANY times and can be very dangerous this time of year.
When was the last time you practiced your emergency braking, mid-corner at 80 mph???? Do you have what it takes???

um, I know i mentioned in the previous WA ride getting those kind of pics, but I didn't mention anything like that here so I'm kind of going

I think you (I) can get excellent "action" shots of people who aren't "pushing it," or riding outside their skill levels, or the like. Please see my liked thread in original post, to ride I shot previously. See any knees down? Anything close to it?
Watch Lee's ride report vid from the WA ride I put together last week. He's prob. as experienced or more than many here. He wasn't balls to the wall, screaming up Wind River. But I think you'd be surprised, if I was to have been waiting around one of those corners, snapping him as he went by, thinking "wow, dude's way too far over/fast for those roads in those conditions."
That's what I enjoy about bike photography like this. You can be taking a corner at say 70% of your skill ability and it'll still look like an aggressive shot if, say, the background's blurred, i use a polarizer, etc etc etc
Hope I'm not beating a dead horse at this point, but I am just impressing that I am just looking to expand on my own photo skills, nothing more.
Hope to see you out there if you can make it : )
michael

marksvfr · 05-29-2008, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by MCA8690

Hope I'm not beating a dead horse at this point

Here ya go. Now you're " Beating a dead horse "

CurveRider · 05-29-2008, 07:27 AM

I will just miss the take off time. Have fun guys. I can't wait to see the pics!

MCA8690 · 05-29-2008, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by CurveRider

I will just miss the take off time. Have fun guys. I can't wait to see the pics!

why don't you meet us in Carson or somewhere along the way in WA? what time would you be able to leave? haven't ridden w ya in a while

hope to see the bike back in working order : )
michael

Lee650 · 05-29-2008, 09:42 AM

Damn Friday I am working until 1:00 but Sat is open.

DGA · 05-29-2008, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Lee650

Damn Friday I am working until 1:00 but Sat is open.

I got the 8 to 5 grind on Friday, but Saturday is open. Where are we going Lee?

ktown929 · 05-29-2008, 10:18 AM

Thats a fun trip...I grew up in Klickitat and have taken that route many times.

Nicegy525 · 05-29-2008, 11:29 AM

screw what anyone says! Go out and drag hard parts and elbows and do all the wheelies you can! That route has some nice LOOOOOONG straights to see your top speed as well!

Mr. P · 05-29-2008, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by Nicegy525

screw what anyone says! Go out and drag hard parts and elbows and do all the wheelies you can! That route has some nice LOOOOOONG straights to see your top speed as well!...a

You're just a Padawan learner, but you'll be a Jedi Master soon. Welcome to the "dark side" Dave

SpeedGeek · 05-29-2008, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by cbrgiRRl

When was the last time you practiced your emergency braking, mid-corner at 80 mph???? Do you have what it takes???

As a matter of fact..... I did have to use those skills last summer in mid corner (30 mph marked - was going into it doing 70-75...) When two people crashed a few bikes ahead of me. Ken (GreenGoblin on .WS) and I pulled stoppies mid corner and avoided crashing.

So I guess that means I passed my ninja skills assessment test, but I've only touched a knee down ONCE (ever so briefly) on the street. Knees on pavement does not necessarily equal fast. And fast doesn't necessarily equal knees on pavement. I've been through the same corner FASTER without touching a puck, than I was going when I got my knee down (and wasn't trying to drag either...)

I gotta admit though, it always kills me when a "New Expert" on the track decides to preach to the street riders

Some of which have been riding longer than the preacher

You know I love ya Amy

But we've all heard it so many times.... "Take it to the track..."

magnolia · 05-29-2008, 01:54 PM

Now Bill, you know good and well I wasn't referring to people of you and Joe's caliber...
There are many who are not as experienced

....

Friendly reminders to take it easy on the street need not be flamed

And my level of track riding has nothing to do with my caring bout my buddies

DGA · 05-29-2008, 02:09 PM

Ok, this coming from a total newbie when it comes to dragging knees... If you are hanging off the bike more, for a set amount of speed, than if you were just sitting on it without hanging off, that would mean that you will go through the corner with a less of a lean angle, than if you just sat upright on your bike. Since the bikes stability increases the more upright it is, why is hanging off the bike more, (dragging knees) a bad thing. If anything the bike would be more stable and less prone to sliding out from under you in a corner, while applying the brakes. Could someone please enlighten me?

Nicegy525 · 05-29-2008, 02:17 PM

draggin knee is generally thrown into the same category as riding hard. yes by hanging off the bike through a corner, you can take a corner at the same speed with less lean angle, however you still need to be hauling butt to get your knee down.

and if youre new to riding you would NEVER under any circumstances want to apply the brakes while the bike is leaned over in a corner. There are more advanced techniques that take a lot of practice and experience to safely use the brakes while leaned over.

magnolia · 05-29-2008, 02:20 PM

While most of that is true, DGA, it is also far more difficult to react in an emergency situation while hanging off the bike. Going through a blind corner at high rates of speed as you are hanging off and trying to react to a car turning in front of you, a deer or child, or log- is far more difficult a task.

You are no longer stable when you throw hard braking or swerving into that mix.

DGA · 05-29-2008, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Nicegy525

draggin knee is generally thrown into the same category as riding hard. yes by hanging off the bike through a corner, you can take a corner at the same speed with less lean angle, however you still need to be hauling butt to get your knee down.

and if youre new to riding you would NEVER under any circumstances want to apply the brakes while the bike is leaned over in a corner. There are more advanced techniques that take a lot of practice and experience to safely use the brakes while leaned over.

I see.

What is this advance technique that you are talking about? I brake in a corner when need be, like finding an oncoming car in my lane. I am not saying that I just grab all the brake I can, but applying them gingerly and maintaining my lean angle. It seems like telling a new rider to never do that is something that can get them hurt, instead of having them practice and get better at it.

mfrankpdx · 05-29-2008, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Nicegy525

screw what anyone says! Go out and drag hard parts and elbows and do all the wheelies you can! That route has some nice LOOOOOONG straights to see your top speed as well!

*in my best poser-boy voice* Man I says you shoud be draggin knee in every corner so by the first 20 miles your puks is worn out and your draggin leather!

Nicegy525 · 05-29-2008, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by DGA

I see.

What is this advance technique that you are talking about? I brake in a corner when need be, like finding an oncoming car in my lane. I am not saying that I just grab all the brake I can, but applying them gingerly and maintaining my lean angle. It seems like telling a new rider to never do that is something that can get them hurt, instead of having them practice and get better at it.

Get some track experience and learn from those who know better then me.

A good rule of thumb is to have your corner speed already set and any mid corner speed adjustments should be made using throttle control. You should always be ready to adjust your line to avoid any hazards and you should be looking far enough ahead to set up your lines to get around any hazards.

Lean angle uses up so much available traction, braking while leaning uses up even more. It takes alot of experience to be able to feel how much traction is available for braking while leaned over.

marksvfr · 05-29-2008, 05:48 PM

Ok, good lessons and all, but lets get back to the ride tomorrow. Who's In? and Who's gonna puss out?

MCA8690 · 05-29-2008, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by marksvfr

Ok, good lessons and all, but lets get back to the ride tomorrow. Who's In? and Who's gonna puss out?

hahah thanks for getting us back on track there Mark, this thread was going >>>sidewayzz>>> with all the comments!
michael

SpiceBoy · 05-29-2008, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Nicegy525

Get some track experience and learn from those who know better then me.

A good rule of thumb is to have your corner speed already set and any mid corner speed adjustments should be made using throttle control. You should always be ready to adjust your line to avoid any hazards and you should be looking far enough ahead to set up your lines to get around any hazards.

Lean angle uses up so much available traction, braking while leaning uses up even more. It takes alot of experience to be able to feel how much traction is available for braking while leaned over.

VERY good advice!!

SpiceBoy · 05-29-2008, 07:17 PM

wish I could go.. but I'm working on a 70+hour (+triple time for Monday

) week and don't want to blow it with calling in sick AGAIN!! (did that for the ride on the 16th and caught crap for it)

Have a good ride and ride safe!!!

Twisties4me · 05-29-2008, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Nicegy525

draggin knee is generally thrown into the same category as riding hard. yes by hanging off the bike through a corner, you can take a corner at the same speed with less lean angle, however you still need to be hauling butt to get your knee down.

and if youre new to riding you would NEVER under any circumstances want to apply the brakes while the bike is leaned over in a corner. There are more advanced techniques that take a lot of practice and experience to safely use the brakes while leaned over.

I would sugjest. Learn how to use your brakes! Practice gradually and slowly in a safe environment so you learn what you and your bike can do. When the day comes you need them, you can use them with skiil and confidence.

When should you start learning to use the brakes? When you start learning how to ride. Is it different in a lean then straight up? Yup. Learn both.

any mid corner speed adjustments should be made using throttle control.

If corner speed is set before the turn, it should be, you will be able to maintain steady or increasing throttle through the turn. Adjust your line if need be, with lean angle by countersteering not throttle adjustments. Unless you need to stop for something... then your gonna NEED the brakes.

Now back to our regularly schedualed thread.
I think I can go.

mfrankpdx · 05-29-2008, 09:18 PM

I'll be there. I have to work at 4pm so I might be turning around early.

MCA8690 · 05-29-2008, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by cbrgiRRl

Now Bill, you know good and well I wasn't referring to people of you and Joe's caliber...
There are many who are not as experienced ....
Friendly reminders to take it easy on the street need not be flamed

well, I never thought I'd have to do this to my own thread but it has to be said:

lol! I've never seen so much drama from trying to put together a friendly ride where I offer to take high-res pics of others, free of charge, and share.

Amy - I hear ya loud and clear. However, I think I acted pretty responsibly when Tim confronted me about my passing mistake: I took responsibility, didn't try to shift blame, and owned up on a public forum with an apology to all and a promise not to do said behavior again. What more is expected, I wonder?

^^^
All meant in a friendly manner, I have no doubt that if we were to meet we'd get along great, and I know you were just trying to help me realize that the streets aren't PIR. I understand that. Hope to see ya manana if you can make it : )
michael

MCA8690 · 05-29-2008, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by mfrankpdx

I'll be there. I have to work at 4pm so I might be turning around early.

I'll try and remember to bring those Puig bolts I've promised you for a while now...

Lee650 · 05-29-2008, 09:45 PM

Hey Mike take lots of pictures and be sure to give us a road report. Wish I could make it, have a good ride. Hope to see ya on Sat.

"H" · 05-29-2008, 10:02 PM

Now that looks like a great ride!! Yeah...def take pics and have a great time!!!

MMAGuy1970 · 05-30-2008, 06:19 AM

Might catch you guys out towards Carson/Battleground. I'm gonna bail around 11-12 and if the roads are good I'm gonna run that ride both ways today.

recr8ton · 05-30-2008, 08:22 AM

Have a great ride today guys!!!

307T · 05-30-2008, 11:21 PM

Bump. Well, how was it? Where are those photos you were talking about?

mfrankpdx · 05-31-2008, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by 307T

Bump. Well, how was it? Where are those photos you were talking about?

Mike didn't get to take as many as he would have liked. We were trying to do the whole loop before I had to be at work. Well we ended up in Battleground at 4pm, when I was supposed to be at work... right as we pulled into the gas station my boss called me. Long story short, I ended up getting the day off, but by that point we were basically done.

The ride was fun though, lots of nice scenery, and quite a few great twisties.

CBRinPDX · 05-31-2008, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by mfrankpdx

Well we ended up in Battleground at 4pm, when I was supposed to be at work... I ended up getting the day off, but by that point we were basically done.

ICK! I hate getting those calls. I hope you have a cool boss, and a job monday!
I'm sure you guys had a great ride. Wish I could join..


05-28-2008, 10:11 PM	#1
MCA8690 McLovin' Joined: Sep 2007 From: PDX.....Tempe? I Ride: faster than Djoplin riding 1-up	Friday 30th ride: Klickitat, 280 mi. ; ) It's supposed to be 73 and sunny Friday, and since I have Fri/Sat's off, I am always looking to ride. This is also a shameless copy of Lee's planned ride for Sunday the 25th, which got scrapped due to weather. Meet place: Gateway Starbucks Meet time: 9:00 AM, arrived gassed up, leave 9:30 AM sharp. Tentative route: Route Total mileage: Near 300 roundtrip. Hope to be back in town by 4:30-5pm. More information: I have done the Cougar/Carson/503/Wind River/Ridge portion of this ride about 4 times in the last 2 weeks (in case you can't tell, I'm obsessed with these roads), and it's an absolute blast, but there are some key spots (climbing Wind River) where the road has a fine layer of dust or gravel, and your back end can slide right out if you're not cautious. Full gear is strongly recommended (2 get-offs last time). Plan on a spirited pace. No plans on stopping for lunch as of yet, but we can obviously make a lunch stop if we're running on sched. and weather's good. I am going to be shooting action pics of this ride (similar to THIS ride I shot..), and have about 4 positions staked out where I'll shoot you all as you blow by. I can promise excellent background pics, and the like. This is a growing hobby of mine, and I love sharing pics of others with them... I am hoping that this will work out for everyone else who comes : ) Lee's original Sunday ride thread HERE __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by MCA8690; 05-29-2008 at 07:07 AM..


05-28-2008, 10:31 PM	#2
yamasaki Pit Crew Joined: Jun 2007 From: PDX/Troutdale, OR I Ride: 2005 636, and 2006 FZ6	Man i was so bummed this ride didnt happen last weekend. But unfortunately, work is still callin my name on Friday. Hope you have a great and safe ride...I'll pray for the weather! Kasey __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-28-2008, 10:43 PM	#3
mfrankpdx Joined: Jul 2007 From: San Angelo, TX I Ride: '07 R1, '08 WR250X	Nice Mike. If the weather turns bad, I'll know who to blame for jinxing it. If its good, well then I'll be there! Win win situation for me __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-28-2008, 10:53 PM	#4
MCA8690 McLovin' Joined: Sep 2007 From: PDX.....Tempe? I Ride: faster than Djoplin riding 1-up	Oh, yeah. Lee: I'd better see you, we all know these roads are your stomping grounds! Maybe another video this time around? I warn you, though, I will be a camera whore and squirt in front of you, just to see what my form/cornering looks like on film __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-29-2008, 01:16 AM	#6
magnolia Endorsed Joined: May 2007 From: Portland, Oregon I Ride: 2003 Honda CBR 600rr	Most of us were hoping that Tim gave ya a real good lesson last ride, but.. THE STREET IS NOT THE TRACK AND NOT A PLACE TO TAKE RISKS AND CERTAINLY NOT KNEE DRAGGING PICS.... Don't mean to lecture, but please be careful out there my friends, that route I have run MANY times and can be very dangerous this time of year. When was the last time you practiced your emergency braking, mid-corner at 80 mph???? Do you have what it takes??? __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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05-29-2008, 06:29 AM	#8
marksvfr Streetfighter Joined: Feb 2008 From: Gresham, OR I Ride: '01 CBR 600 F4i * * * * * * * * * * SOLD * * * * *	Count me in. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-29-2008, 07:27 AM	#11
CurveRider Pit Crew Joined: Dec 2007 From: Tualatin I Ride: 04 Yamaha FZ6, 81 Honda XL250	I will just miss the take off time. Have fun guys. I can't wait to see the pics! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-29-2008, 09:42 AM	#13
Lee650 Superbiker Joined: Apr 2007 From: Milwaukie, Oregon I Ride: K1200R Sport; S1000RR	Damn Friday I am working until 1:00 but Sat is open. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-29-2008, 10:18 AM	#15
ktown929 Pit Crew Joined: May 2006 From: WA I Ride: 2006 RMZ450	Thats a fun trip...I grew up in Klickitat and have taken that route many times. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-29-2008, 11:29 AM	#16
Nicegy525 Zone Head Joined: Feb 2008 From: Portland, Oregon I Ride: '07 GSXR-750	screw what anyone says! Go out and drag hard parts and elbows and do all the wheelies you can! That route has some nice LOOOOOONG straights to see your top speed as well! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-29-2008, 01:54 PM	#19
magnolia Endorsed Joined: May 2007 From: Portland, Oregon I Ride: 2003 Honda CBR 600rr	Now Bill, you know good and well I wasn't referring to people of you and Joe's caliber... There are many who are not as experienced .... Friendly reminders to take it easy on the street need not be flamed And my level of track riding has nothing to do with my caring bout my buddies __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-29-2008, 02:09 PM	#20
DGA MotoGP Contender Joined: Jun 2007 From: Portland, Oregon I Ride: naked	Ok, this coming from a total newbie when it comes to dragging knees... If you are hanging off the bike more, for a set amount of speed, than if you were just sitting on it without hanging off, that would mean that you will go through the corner with a less of a lean angle, than if you just sat upright on your bike. Since the bikes stability increases the more upright it is, why is hanging off the bike more, (dragging knees) a bad thing. If anything the bike would be more stable and less prone to sliding out from under you in a corner, while applying the brakes. Could someone please enlighten me? __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-29-2008, 02:17 PM	#21
Nicegy525 Zone Head Joined: Feb 2008 From: Portland, Oregon I Ride: '07 GSXR-750	draggin knee is generally thrown into the same category as riding hard. yes by hanging off the bike through a corner, you can take a corner at the same speed with less lean angle, however you still need to be hauling butt to get your knee down. and if youre new to riding you would NEVER under any circumstances want to apply the brakes while the bike is leaned over in a corner. There are more advanced techniques that take a lot of practice and experience to safely use the brakes while leaned over. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-29-2008, 02:20 PM	#22
magnolia Endorsed Joined: May 2007 From: Portland, Oregon I Ride: 2003 Honda CBR 600rr	While most of that is true, DGA, it is also far more difficult to react in an emergency situation while hanging off the bike. Going through a blind corner at high rates of speed as you are hanging off and trying to react to a car turning in front of you, a deer or child, or log- is far more difficult a task. You are no longer stable when you throw hard braking or swerving into that mix. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-29-2008, 05:48 PM	#26
marksvfr Streetfighter Joined: Feb 2008 From: Gresham, OR I Ride: '01 CBR 600 F4i * * * * * * * * * * SOLD * * * * *	Ok, good lessons and all, but lets get back to the ride tomorrow. Who's In? and Who's gonna puss out? __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-29-2008, 07:17 PM	#29
SpiceBoy Endorsed Joined: Apr 2008 From: Clackamas, Oregon I Ride: Kawi	wish I could go.. but I'm working on a 70+hour (+triple time for Monday) week and don't want to blow it with calling in sick AGAIN!! (did that for the ride on the 16th and caught crap for it) Have a good ride and ride safe!!! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-29-2008, 09:18 PM	#31
mfrankpdx Joined: Jul 2007 From: San Angelo, TX I Ride: '07 R1, '08 WR250X	I'll be there. I have to work at 4pm so I might be turning around early. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-29-2008, 09:45 PM	#34
Lee650 Superbiker Joined: Apr 2007 From: Milwaukie, Oregon I Ride: K1200R Sport; S1000RR	Hey Mike take lots of pictures and be sure to give us a road report. Wish I could make it, have a good ride. Hope to see ya on Sat. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-29-2008, 10:02 PM	#35
"H" Streetfighter Joined: Apr 2007 From: Portland	Now that looks like a great ride!! Yeah...def take pics and have a great time!!! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-30-2008, 06:19 AM	#36
MMAGuy1970 Zone Head Joined: Apr 2007 From: Out of your mind I Ride: like it’s gonna rain tomorrow.	Might catch you guys out towards Carson/Battleground. I'm gonna bail around 11-12 and if the roads are good I'm gonna run that ride both ways today. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-30-2008, 08:22 AM	#37
recr8ton MotoGP Contender Joined: Mar 2007 From: Portland/Beaverton I Ride: 2007 Yamaha R6s	Have a great ride today guys!!! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-30-2008, 11:21 PM	#38
307T Zone Head Joined: Jan 2007 From: Washington County I Ride: when the weather is nice	Bump. Well, how was it? Where are those photos you were talking about? __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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