jwfzr

Here it is.
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/moto...announced.html

Buckwheat

SiCC

just curious why pirelli is the choice of tire for wsbk (correct?) but motogp only runs bridgestone, michelin, and dunlop? why no pirelli in the mix?

back to the topic, im 72/25 on a single tire rule. for more exciting races.

jwfzr

Pirelli is the WSBk tire because Ducati wanted them. What Ducati wants Ducati gets in WSBK.

MichelinMan

Why can't each manufacturer simply use good ol' chemistry, breakdown and analyze their competitor's products, and then reverse engineer the quailty and build similar tires?

tokin

As I understand it, they go as far as to design a different tire for each track surface.

jwfzr

They do design for each track and different riders as well. There is also the construction design of each tire, which is not easily duplicated.

late apex

I kind have come around on the single tire thing. It has done wonders for WSBK. I do understand wanting to keep multiple players in the prototype class of Moto GP as it will in theory move technology forward faster. But as I see it, they, Dorna, needs to worry more about having the top product in the motorcycle racing world. If there is a second year in a row with such a large difference in the performance of the tire manufacturers, you end up with a disappointed fan base. That won't be good for the sport.

jwfzr

That is true. I've heard that Dorna has been paying attention to what the fans want "at least the ones that really know what they are talking about" and was considering a one rider moto gp program next season to keep the insanely rabid fans happy. If it goes through every team will be fielding Rossi. They still have to work out the details on how it will all shake out.

Hmm. If this goes through I wonder what the excuses will be next year for him losing?

the chemist

I hate the idea of one tire. Tire choice is clearly a choice and development is clearly something that can help a rider. It makes prep WAY more important. If they just show up and get their tires all they have to worry about is setting the bike up for the track. Its an added difficulty to have to develop tires for the track, and each company is going to do things differently. Hell, why not HAVE A ONE BIKE RULE?!?!?! Wouldn't that make everything fair? Competition is what drives motoGP. Why shouldnt there be competition between tires as well as bike companies as well as riders

Alpine 318is

Im glad to see that it went this way.

GixxerPete

Exactly. What good is all this "tire devopment/competition" if it ruins the series by making it boring as hell?

WSBK + spec tires = best racing and brand parity of any series

MotoGP + tire wars = boring racing dominated by one tire company

GixxerPete

Actually I heard that Ducati successfully lobbied for only their team to run Bridgestones, and every other team has to run Chen Shings. Additionally Ducati will be allowed to run any displacement they wish at any weight they wish, and other teams will still be limited to 800cc, and a 100 lbs weight penaly to insure Ducati's success. Then it won't matter who rides what, Ducat will always win.

jwfzr

You obviously have not watched any BSB. That is by far the best series going.

GixxerPete

Because the bike manufacturers and teams have no direct control of how well the tire manufacturer does their job. A team can do everything right, and if their tires aren't competitive, they're fucked. I seriously cannot fathom how anyone thinks having tires being the deciding factor is good for the sport.

How would you feel if you knew no matter how hard you tried or what you did, your tires would let you down and you'd have little to no chance of winning?

And again, what good is this so-called tire competition if it ruins the series and makes it boring as hell and nobody watches it?

Oh and they tried the "one bike rule" in WSBK a few years back. It was also known as "The Ducati Cup". It was boring as fuck and nearly killed the series.

late apex

While I understand wanting to make the point by bringing up the "one bike rule" scenario, the question is what is the series all about. It is actually about two things, the riders championship and the manufacturers championship. I don't think there is a trophy for the tire maufacturers championship.

Tires are a huge part of racing; as a matter of fact you can make the argument that they are developing faster than the rest of the bike. As a result, if one of the tire manufacturers comes up with something that is significantly better at a particular track, it kills the chance for the half of the field that isn't on that brand that day. If you just spent $3,000 of your hard earned money taking a vacation to Indy to watch a Moto GP race and only half the field has a chance to race up front because they're on brand X, then don't you have a right to be frustrated with the organization? I think a one tire rule would be a good thing as it would give the race for the two championships a more level playing field on every given weekend.

jwfzr

Why is it I never heard anyone complain when another brand was dominating? Was it because your favorite rider had the benifit of that tire and was the main priority of that company?

GixxerPete

Because they were pretty much the only game in town for years, it practically was a spec tire class, as ALL the top teams were on Michelins. So no big advantage for anyone. Now there is an all out tire war, which has become the deciding factor on which teams are going to be competitve or not. That is f'ed up.

Again, explain to me how/why racing should be decided by tires? Like Late Apex said, there is the rider's championship, and the manufacturer's championship. There is no tire championship.

I'll throw this out there too... if by some quirk of fate, Michelin hit it next year and Bridgestone missed and the tables turned, I would still say it was just as sucky of situation as this year.

The truth is it's not so much that I want Rossi to win, I want good, solid competitive racing where the outcome is decided by the bikes and riders, not the tires. That was clearly NOT the case this season.

jwfzr

They were not the only game in town. There were others but they were obviously not competitive.
Have to agree with you on most of the rest though.
Hold on now. I've heard you say that the Ducati was a way better bike? So thats ok with you? Bikes and Riders decide it then so you should have nothing to complain about Stoner winning or Hayden last season. Right?

TaurusRacing

Where can you get BSB on the tube? I would love to watch BSB. I sure do enjoy watching WSBK over all others.

GixxerPete

Correct. I'm ok with the fact that Ducati built a better 800cc bike than the rest. They had no handicaps or rules in their favor, they came up with a better package, fair and square. What I had a problem with was all the idiots that were either too stupid to even realize that Ducati had a better/faster bike, or were in denial of it. To anyone that's ever raced or spent any quality time on the track, or just knows their shit about racing, it was blatantly obvious. They just declared Stoner the new "king" like he was stomping all over everyone with essentially equal equipment, which was definitely not the case.

Bikes and riders didn't decide it this year, tires did. I have no complaints with the outcome of last season. I like Hayden too and was glad to see him win it. Rossi seems to have a lot of respect for Hayden (which he doesn't for a lot of his other rivals) so that says something.

jwfzr

I guess it's really the same thing when Rossi was on the Hondas. In 250,500 and 990. Much better equiptment than anyone else. Thats one of the reasons he is not going to be remembered as the greatest. Those championships were on bikes that no one has a chance at beating. So they really don't count in most peoples eyes.

jwfzr

I have a friend thats gets them burned for me. If you like WSBK then you would love BSB. Way better,"closer" racing and jumps to boot.

the chemist

You make a good point that the teams can't depend on the tire manufacturers. The thing is, the team also can't depend on Stoner, Rossi, Hayden or anyone getting everything right either. Nor can the riders insure that their bike will be flawless. Thats what makes it a TEAM effort.

Again, thank you for making a good point. Everyone had the same bike and it was boring. If everyone had the same bike, wouldn't it be ALL about the rider? Your point proves that it is interesting and entertaining to have differences and flaws. Rossi's bike might be better this week, but someone like Malandri could win next week because his bike is set up the best. Tires are another weapon, and you must choose the right combination to do well. It isn't just about the rider, but the entire team's prep

And, to the trophy comment. . .

They can have a championship for the riders because there are 20 racers out there. They can have a championship for manufacturers because there are more than a few teams. What would a championship between two teams be? Because Dunlop doesn't finish anywhere near to be considered