jwfzr

MotoGP To Rein In Traction Control?
by dean adams Friday, December 28, 2007

Now that the threat of a single tire manufacturer servicing the entire grid has passed, MotoGP bosses are moving on to the next technical issue on their to-do list: traction control and engine management systems.

As has been stated here before, if not because of his accomplishments and capabilities then certainly by virtue of his fan base, Valentino Rossi runs MotoGP racing. Millions tune in or attend races every MotoGP season to watch the 28-year old Rossi. With that fan base comes power; thus, when Rossi's not happy, the MotoGP overlords are not happy.

It's nice work if you can get it. When Rossi is unhappy with something, he utters a thinly-veiled threat like 'this is not racing, and if it is, then I prefer to do something else'. The 'prefer to do something else' declaration makes MotoGP nearly swallow their tongue in fear, and then suddenly his concerns become their concerns.

Rossi was behind the move to get the MotoGP grid on a single Bridgestone "control tire", a situation which ended in him getting on the previously thought to be closed Bridgestone tire allotment list.
At the end of the '07 MotoGP season Rossi was critical of (or heaped praise upon, depending on your perspective) Ducati's traction control and or engine management system, saying that the newest versions of the traction control system had removed the human element from a racer controlling acceleration and traction.

If you've been paying attention, the next shoe to drop wasn't a surprise. MotoGP head Carmelo Ezpeleta said just before Christmas that combating traction control was next on their list and in a perfect (future) world the entire MotoGP grid would be on a single ECU, which would--presumably--make traction control a moot point.

However, with so many nuances in MotoGP engine configurations in (Big bang in-line four ala Yamaha, Screamer V-4 as used in the Ducati and a conventional V-4 in the Honda, etc) a single ECU for them all sounds like a potential technical nightmare.

How this would all work will be interesting to watch and if successful will fly in the face of so many experts who said traction control in motorcycle racing had to be rubber-stamp accepted because there was simply "no stopping it".

The single known quantity in all of this is what MotoGP is going to do: that is exactly what Rossi wants them to do.


MOTOGP: Control electronics?, motorsport news, results, features, teams, drivers, updates

MotoGP Control electronics?
Friday, 21st December 2007

MotoGP may have narrowly avoided the introduction of a control tyre rule for 2008, but Dorna CEO Carmelo Ezpeleta has revealed that 'control electronics' could be on the horizon.

Ezpeleta is interested in the use of a standard ECU throughout the grid to limit the influence of complex electronic control systems, which have substantially tamed machines in recent seasons.

"[Electronics] are the next thing we are working on" Ezpeleta told Motosprint magazine. "We need to regulate it and the ideal solution would be to have a standard [ECU] unit for everyone, but the manufacturers don't like the idea. It needs to be discussed further and I will talk with the riders, technicians and everybody involved."

Formula One, which already has a control tyre rule, will introduce a standard ECU in 2008.

Many MotoGP fans objected to the control tyre proposal, saying that it went against MotoGP's prototype philosophy, but would the introduction of a standard ECU be more acceptable?


MotoGP news: Rossi slams rider aids - GPUpdate.net MotoGP

Rossi slams rider aids
14 December 2007


Valentino Rossi has once again pointed out that he is not a big fan of the growing influence of electronics in MotoGP. Rossi has always said he believes rider aids are getting too important and he finds it harder to master riding with so much non-human input.

Speaking with MCN Rossi said: "Casey (Stoner) has done an amazing job and without doubt he is a great rider. But he is the first of the traction control generation because the way he uses traction control is amazing.

"For old generation riders like me, Marco Melandri and Loris Capirossi we have a lot of problems to understand. You have to be brave to use the systems. It is difficult sometimes to have confidence in a system because that system is not human.

"As an old generation rider, when the engineers come to you and say you can open the throttle full when you're knee is on the ground at 150ks in the middle of the corner, it is easy to say this from the pits. It is different on the bike and that is the main problem for the old generation guys. Casey believes in the system and we don't," added Rossi.

__________________

late apex

I don't mind getting rid of traction control as I think it would make the sport much better. But, in the last article, Rossi sounds like an old man who can't adapt.

SiCC

level playing field is ok with me if its fun to watch. although its fun to root for an underdog too.... quite the tossup.

but yea, rossi sounds like a friggin cry baby.

jwfzr

Yes, I agree that it would be nice to see some limits but I would not want it to turn into NASCAR. You think that at his age he would want all the electronic help he could get seeing how his skills have steadily eroded as he has aged.

WTFO

Well with all of the crap they are developing why not just get rid of the riders and have robot controlled bikes.

I side on the part of the rider should ride the bike not the bike ride the rider. When ya get rid of the even field, TC etc it comes down to who is the better racer, who better reads the track etc and winds up the winner. I care not for F1 racing because they have taken the driver element out of the equation pretty much.

jwfzr

"Well with all of the crap they are developing why not just get rid of the riders and have robot controlled bikes."

I thought Pedrosa was a step in this direction for Honda?

WTFO

It would appear that way. Have not really been able to keep up with the racing scene the last year, ergo will see what the 08 season is all about, hopefully I will not be disappointed.

fastfoodfred

As I understand it, F1 is going to use a 'spec ECU'.

I like the idea, it makes the race about the whole team, not just who has the better programmer.

WTFO

I would like to see things go back to more about the rider/driver than the wizardry of electronics.

Granted if the team sets the bike up right then yes the rider has an edge provided he/she has the skill set to take advantage of the "edge"

cash

it will never happen the factories have to much say and would never settle for a standard ECU

Powderkeg

There ya go. "Next on MotoGP, Rossi & Stoner got at it in Laguna on the Xbox360..."

KCander

F1 was pretty interesting this year since the final verdict was in doubt for so long, but for the most part it's become more and more vanilla as the technology has progressed...too much car, not enough driver. They've got the traction control, launch control, yadda yadda yadda...Anything that keeps MotoGP from going in the same direction is fine by me. Ditch the traction control.

jwfzr

The factories have as much say in Formula 1 and they are doing it?

Buckwheat

As far as getting robots to pilot the future bikes...Honda is working on it.

NoQuarter#121

I miss th old days...

I watch (and re-watch and watch again)

the highlights from the 2000 and 2001 WSBK race seasons, the bikes are sideways and smoking!!

The 2002, 2003 and 2004 Moto GP bikes are sideways and smoking!!

then...

2005 a little less,
2006 even less
and 2007 if it's sliding the rider is probably sliding with it cuz it crashed. No smokey no slidy no funny

And?

I go back and watch WSBK!


I hope they figure out a way to ban traction control, but good luck!

At wmrra its legal, because there is no easy way to police ecu's or traction control.

GixxerPete

I laugh, but there is some truth in that. The more and more electronics take over, the less and less the rider's skill is the deciding factor, and that's ain't racing, IMO.

And talk shit about Rossi all you want, but he makes a good point. Guys like Stoner never had to ride the old 500s, or the 990s much (we saw how well he did his one season on a 990). Those bikes took a lot of skill to master, and didn't suffer fools or ham-fisted riding. The new 800s with all the electronics, traction control etc are way easier to ride fast, and guys like Stoner don't know what's it like to ride those snarling beasts of GPs past, so it's easy for them to "trust" the electronics and just pin it, where the old-school riders have had years of experience telling them that kind of hamfisted riding will land them on their heads in no time flat.

So once again, it's downright laughable to even compare Stoner with the likes of Rossi. He had ONE dominating season on a bike that was way better/faster AND way easier to ride than anyone else's. That hardly measures his talent against Rossi's. Put Rossi and Stoner on 500 smokers and see how they stack up.

E36M3K6GSXR

The only slide that I saw in 2007 was Toni Elias in Estoril in front of Randy de Puniet.

Transported

But, it does seem that a superior rider would be able to perceive the capabilities of a bike (any bike) and quickly adjust to get the most out of it. What Rossi seems to be saying is the bikes are beyond his skill level now.

jwfzr

I do agree with you mostly about the traction control issue. As far as Rossi goes he has only one championship that was fairly impressive to me and that was the last one on the Yamaha otherwise throughout his entire career he was on superior equiptment. There really should be some sort of footnote next to any records he has stating this fact. No doubt in my mind put those two on 500s and Stoner wins everytime end of story.

jwfzr

Amen.

GixxerPete

That's the funniest and most ridiculous thing I think you've ever said! And deep down you know it isn't true, not even close. You just like to taunt people me that aren't deluded Stoner fanbois.

jwfzr

I know my Shtick is played when I can't even get the angriest man in the Northwest angry anymore. I'll have to look for a new angle.

cash

good points. the fact is that when a 250 racer can be at race pace with the top riders after only the 2nd time on a motorcycle then its clear that the electronics have more say then the rider. I know that Larenzo,DeAngelis and Dovizioso are good riders but its seems fishy for them to be pacing .5 of the world champion. IMO

jwfzr

I don't think so. So far every top 250 rider thats made the jump has been right there. It really just helps my long held belief that these guys are not necessarily the best in the world.
Some of the AMA boys would be right there as well if given the chance and one would dominate. "RLH"

kalvyn

Robert Heinlein? Dude, he's dead...















Jimmie

GixxerPete

Bwahahahahahaha

Ok you've now exceeded your most funny/ridiculous statement ever! Right Left Hand can't even hang with Mladin or Spies in the AMA, he sure as shit can't hang with the MotoGP boys.

jwfzr