Changing of the guard "MotoGP"

jwfzr · 04-15-2008, 10:37 AM

Not really news but it's something to think about.
Hofmann
Barros
Checa
Kurtass

replaced by Dovizioso, Toseland, Lorenzo and deAngelis.
Not to mention the new talent infused in 06. How much longer can guys like Melandri, Capirossi and the others last?

fastfoodfred · 04-15-2008, 05:57 PM

Does it really matter who is fighting for 2nd place? Rossi is still top dog.

jwfzr · 04-15-2008, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by fastfoodfred

Does it really matter who is fighting for 2nd place? Rossi is still top dog.

Holy crap Fred? he's not even the best Yamaha rider anymore let alone in the entire field. He's realistically 4-5 in the field talent wise. You need to get out more. This will be his third year in a row with no championship. Again he should have retired at the end of 05 and it would have been hard to dispute the myth that he was able to perpetuate up until that time.

fastfoodfred · 04-15-2008, 06:07 PM

How many in a row does anyone else in the field have? I have trouble remembering any with multiple titles in several different classes.

Hypnotiq · 04-15-2008, 06:09 PM

fff, you know arguing with jason is like arguing with a fence pole right?

fastfoodfred · 04-15-2008, 06:15 PM

I think somewhere on the internet, Jason is sitting back with a smile on his face right now.

SiCC · 04-15-2008, 06:54 PM

i love hopkins but he is now a veteran and still young. he needs the get the boot too. as a matter of fact, boot half the grid as they all dont have and never will have a shot.

The Doctor · 04-15-2008, 07:06 PM

are we gonna let this turn into another Rossi hater thread?

it seems that every MotoGP has someone bashing on him or stoner.

getting old and its only been 3 rounds...

jwfzr · 04-15-2008, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by fastfoodfred

How many in a row does anyone else in the field have? I have trouble remembering any with multiple titles in several different classes.

Your boy won his championships in classes that have been unequaled in the history of any motorcycle racing era for having no talent. He was a decent talent surrounded by no talent until 06. He's done nothing since and will continue to do nothing.

Ciao998 · 04-15-2008, 07:28 PM

I think LC is still pretty good. Having my doubts about Melandri though. Ducati is gong to completely re-engineer the chassis for him though(supposedly)............who knows, but definitely the guard has changed..........JOhn

jwfzr · 04-15-2008, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by GO!!!!!!!R1

are we gonna let this turn into another Rossi hater thread?

it seems that every MotoGP has someone bashing on him or stoner.

getting old and its only been 3 rounds...

I enjoy doing it any time of year. Does not matter if it's the silly season of 6 rounds in.lol...

jwfzr · 04-15-2008, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by SiCC

i love hopkins but he is now a veteran and still young. he needs the get the boot too. as a matter of fact, boot half the grid as they all dont have and never will have a shot.

Have to agree with you, especially about hypekins.

fastfoodfred · 04-15-2008, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by jwfzr

Your boy won his championships in classes that have been unequaled in the history of any motorcycle racing era for having no talent.

Are you sure you're not thinking about another guy that used to ride for Honda? His name was Mic Doohan.

jwfzr · 04-15-2008, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by fastfoodfred

Are you sure you're not thinking about another guy that used to ride for Honda? His name was Mic Doohan.

Doohan did have competition early on in his career. Schwantz, Rainey. Lets see Rossi had hmmmm Kenny Jr. lol... Max

Sete? It's really laughable when you think about it.

GixxerPete · 04-16-2008, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by SiCC

i love hopkins but he is now a veteran and still young. he needs the get the boot too. as a matter of fact, boot half the grid as they all dont have and never will have a shot.

Yeah why even line up if you don't stand a chance at winning. A five bike grid would be really entertaining.

holypiston · 04-16-2008, 09:02 AM

Wait a minute!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kurtass (hehe) is still in Motogp?

Gotta be Kenny Senior's team.

Sorry haven't been keeping track. Remove the traction control and i'll be on it.

jwfzr · 04-16-2008, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by holypiston

Wait a minute!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kurtass (hehe) is still in Motogp?

Gotta be Kenny Senior's team.

Sorry haven't been keeping track. Remove the traction control and i'll be on it.

It looks like the Roberts family is done with motogp as of now.

late apex · 04-16-2008, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by SiCC

i love hopkins but he is now a veteran and still young. he needs the get the boot too. as a matter of fact, boot half the grid as they all dont have and never will have a shot.

Hopkins will have put the Kawasaki on the podium at least three times by the end of this season.

NoQuarter#121 · 04-16-2008, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by jwfzr

Your boy won his championships in classes that have been unequaled in the history of any motorcycle racing era for having no talent. He was a decent talent surrounded by no talent until 06. He's done nothing since and will continue to do nothing.

Uh no talent??

World Champions on the grid during the no talent era...

7 Rossi
4 Max Biaggi
2 Colin Edwards
2 Troy Bayliss
2 Troy Corser
1 Casey Stoner
1 Nicky Hayden
1 Oliver Jaque
1 Loris Capirossi
1 Marco Melandri

No talent at all... And I probably missed a couple...

jwfzr · 04-16-2008, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by NoQuarter#121

Uh no talent??

World Champions on the grid during the no talent era...

7 Rossi
4 Max Biaggi Please lol......
2 Colin Edwards Much as I like him he's a two time wsb champ. An ama champ would be more impressive.
2 Troy Bayliss Again WSBK
2 Troy Corser See above with less credibility
1 Casey Stoner Yes and the kid proved to be a better rider than your boi.
1 Nicky Hayden See above
1 Oliver Jaque
1 Loris Capirossi
1 Marco Melandri These three guys are not even worth commenting on.

No talent at all... And I probably missed a couple...

There have been several articles written about this exact thing. Your boy was a paper champion.

NoQuarter#121 · 04-16-2008, 10:51 AM

I'm with you about the new talents...

These guys are exciting!!!

Stoner
Pedrobot
Devisio
Lorenzo (my personal favorite and a good bet for future world champ)
De Angelis

However, in my opinion, (and the opinion of many who would know better) Rossi still gets a considered nod as a real candidate for GOAT. Along with Doohan, Rainey, Lawson, Hailwood, Agostini...

Also the technology allows the current crop of racers to get up to speed much easier.

In the old days the only traction control was the twisty thingy on the right handlebar.

Now they get sattelite feeds to control gas consumption and power from TURN TO TURN...

Was the Red Baron a greater ace than Steve Ritchie? Probably.

The man overcame the machine, made it do things it wasn't capable of doing in the hands of mortals.

The electonic machine doesn't ALLOW the machine to do things it's not capable of doing.

jwfzr · 04-16-2008, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by NoQuarter#121

I'm with you about the new talents...

These guys are exciting!!!

Stoner
Pedrobot
Devisio
Lorenzo (my personal favorite and a good bet for future world champ)
De Angelis

However, in my opinion, (and the opinion of many who would know better) Rossi still gets a considered nod as a real candidate for GOAT. Along with Doohan, Rainey, Lawson, Hailwood, Agostini...

Also the technology allows the current crop of racers to get up to speed much easier.

In the old days the only traction control was the twisty thingy on the right handlebar.

Now they get sattelite feeds to control gas consumption and power from TURN TO TURN...

Was the Red Baron a greater ace than Steve Ritchie? Probably.

The man overcame the machine, made it do things it wasn't capable of doing in the hands of mortals.

The electonic machine doesn't ALLOW the machine to do things it's not capable of doing.

This could be the new golden age of GP racing I think. I wonder if the whole traction control thing is a bit over blown. No one seems to be able to explain why only one ducati rider has done anything in the past two years. Its part of the evolution of GP racing I think.
The Reb Baron "much like Rossi" was wayyy over rated. He had no competition.lol..

GixxerPete · 04-16-2008, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by NoQuarter#121

Also the technology allows the current crop of racers to get up to speed much easier.

In the old days the only traction control was the twisty thingy on the right handlebar.

Now they get sattelite feeds to control gas consumption and power from TURN TO TURN...

Was the Red Baron a greater ace than Steve Ritchie? Probably.

The man overcame the machine, made it do things it wasn't capable of doing in the hands of mortals.

The electonic machine doesn't ALLOW the machine to do things it's not capable of doing.

All troof, with the last part bolded for extra emphasis. What takes more talent to ride fast? A bucking bronco that's trying to throw you off, or a bunch of electronic trickery that does all the riding for you?

NoQuarter#121 · 04-16-2008, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by jwfzr

This could be the new golden age of GP racing I think. I wonder if the whole traction control thing is a bit over blown. No one seems to be able to explain why only one ducati rider has done anything in the past two years. Its part of the evolution of GP racing I think.
The Reb Baron "much like Rossi" was wayyy over rated. He had no competition.lol..

Now I'm really a Rickenbacker fan (USA 26 downed aircraft) , but if you bad mouth the Baron we are gonna have to meet at the flag pole!

FYI: There were many greats in the air between 1914 and 1919. Guneymeyer, McFadden, Rickenbacker, Rhys-David, for "US" and guys like Immellman, Wolff, Voss, Udet, Wusthoff, and both Richtofens, (Manfred the Red Baron and his brother Lothar) for "THEM"

I have spoken with a couple of modern fighter pilots and they agreed on this. Modern piltots are better trained and fly better equipment, which brings the "mean" or average way up. Modern pilots in general are better than the nostalgic pilots.

But they will admit that the old canvas and balsa wood pilots had to fly on talent alone and the greatest of them were able to use feel and instinct to create tactics and manuevers that overcame deficiences in the technology.

I think the same can be said for modern motorcycle racing.

The overall average is getting higher, but the gap between the least talented and most talented is getting blurred and reduced by technology.

Thats why future greats like Lorenzo can challenge the front so quickly. The learning curve has been reduced by electronics.

Will it make for better racing? I dunno, we shall see... But I already miss the tire smoking days from just a few seasons ago. Remember how at the end of the race the bikes were sliding and smoking everywhere? That was cool!!

jwfzr · 04-16-2008, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by NoQuarter#121

Now I'm really a Rickenbacker fan (USA 26 downed aircraft) , but if you bad mouth the Baron we are gonna have to meet at the flag pole!

FYI: There were many greats in the air between 1914 and 1919. Guneymeyer, McFadden, Rickenbacker, Rhys-David, for "US" and guys like Immellman, Wolff, Voss, Udet, Wusthoff, and both Richtofens, (Manfred the Red Baron and his brother Lothar) for "THEM"

I have spoken with a couple of modern fighter pilots and they agreed on this. Modern piltots are better trained and fly better equipment, which brings the "mean" or average way up. Modern pilots in general are better than the nostalgic pilots.

But they will admit that the old canvas and balsa wood pilots had to fly on talent alone and the greatest of them were able to use feel and instinct to create tactics and manuevers that overcame deficiences in the technology.

I think the same can be said for modern motorcycle racing.

The overall average is getting higher, but the gap between the least talented and most talented is getting blurred and reduced by technology.

Thats why future greats like Lorenzo can challenge the front so quickly. The learning curve has been reduced by electronics.

Will it make for better racing? I dunno, we shall see... But I already miss the tire smoking days from just a few seasons ago. Remember how at the end of the race the bikes were sliding and smoking everywhere? That was cool!!

Some of those WW2 german aces had unbelievable numbers.
Not to mention the tank ace of all tank aces. Michael wittman.

the chemist · 04-16-2008, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by fastfoodfred

How many in a row does anyone else in the field have? I have trouble remembering any with multiple titles in several different classes.

If I play basketball with 2nd graders, Id go undefeated forever. Does that make me the best ever? Hardly.

Jason, I wouldn't even put him at 4-5.
Stoner
Lorenzo
Pedrosa
Toseland
Dovisioso (sp?), when he gets a good bike....

Maybe 6th. We'll see when Honda gets the numatic (sp?) engines. Look what happened when Tech 3 did...all of a sudden Edwards was as good as his old self and Toseland was impressive as well. Lets judge Rossi at the end of the year...but for now Im putting him at 6th...

Oh and anyone wanna argue it was all bike for Stoner? Why is he still the only one that can tame that best (most of the time)

GixxerPete · 04-16-2008, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by NoQuarter#121


04-15-2008, 10:37 AM	#1
jwfzr Two Wheel Art Joined: Oct 2004 From: Indy Valley North Blog Entries: 4 I Ride: cbr900rr	Changing of the guard "MotoGP" Not really news but it's something to think about. Hofmann Barros Checa Kurtass replaced by Dovizioso, Toseland, Lorenzo and deAngelis. Not to mention the new talent infused in 06. How much longer can guys like Melandri, Capirossi and the others last?


04-15-2008, 05:57 PM	#2
fastfoodfred MotoGP Champion Joined: Mar 2006 From: spokane, wa I Ride: 2006 R6	Does it really matter who is fighting for 2nd place? Rossi is still top dog.


04-15-2008, 06:07 PM	#4
fastfoodfred MotoGP Champion Joined: Mar 2006 From: spokane, wa I Ride: 2006 R6	How many in a row does anyone else in the field have? I have trouble remembering any with multiple titles in several different classes.


04-15-2008, 06:09 PM	#5
Hypnotiq MotoGP Contender Joined: Oct 2005 From: Issaquah, WA I Ride: Race: 05 GSXR750 - Street: 06 GSXR750	fff, you know arguing with jason is like arguing with a fence pole right?


04-15-2008, 06:15 PM	#6
fastfoodfred MotoGP Champion Joined: Mar 2006 From: spokane, wa I Ride: 2006 R6	I think somewhere on the internet, Jason is sitting back with a smile on his face right now.


04-15-2008, 06:54 PM	#7
SiCC Superbiker Joined: Apr 2006 From: Gig Harbor Isle I Ride: GSXR750, F4750	i love hopkins but he is now a veteran and still young. he needs the get the boot too. as a matter of fact, boot half the grid as they all dont have and never will have a shot.


04-15-2008, 07:06 PM	#8
The Doctor GO!!!!!!!R1 Joined: Mar 2008 From: Kitsap I Ride: '07 Yama R1	are we gonna let this turn into another Rossi hater thread? it seems that every MotoGP has someone bashing on him or stoner. getting old and its only been 3 rounds...


04-15-2008, 07:28 PM	#10
Ciao998 MotoGP Contender Joined: Sep 2006 From: kennewick/wa I Ride: Ducati 998	I think LC is still pretty good. Having my doubts about Melandri though. Ducati is gong to completely re-engineer the chassis for him though(supposedly)............who knows, but definitely the guard has changed..........JOhn


04-16-2008, 09:02 AM	#16
holypiston Superbiker Joined: Oct 2006 From: Vanquiver, WA I Ride: RD400F Daytonut	Wait a minute!!!!!!!!!!!! Kurtass (hehe) is still in Motogp? Gotta be Kenny Senior's team. Sorry haven't been keeping track. Remove the traction control and i'll be on it.


04-16-2008, 10:51 AM	#21
NoQuarter#121 Pit Crew Joined: Sep 2007 From: 2nd star to the right and straight on 'til morning I Ride: I fall down	I'm with you about the new talents... These guys are exciting!!! Stoner Pedrobot Devisio Lorenzo (my personal favorite and a good bet for future world champ) De Angelis However, in my opinion, (and the opinion of many who would know better) Rossi still gets a considered nod as a real candidate for GOAT. Along with Doohan, Rainey, Lawson, Hailwood, Agostini... Also the technology allows the current crop of racers to get up to speed much easier. In the old days the only traction control was the twisty thingy on the right handlebar. Now they get sattelite feeds to control gas consumption and power from TURN TO TURN... Was the Red Baron a greater ace than Steve Ritchie? Probably. The man overcame the machine, made it do things it wasn't capable of doing in the hands of mortals. The electonic machine doesn't ALLOW the machine to do things it's not capable of doing.