Hypnotiq

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...?article=32070

Bleh!!!!

GixxerPete

Wow... how incredibly fucking stupid. I don't think AMA racing could get anymore retarded than it already is, but they've found a way to do it, in spades. Instead of fixing what was wrong with it, they just threw the baby out with the bath water. Bravo!

Well I guess I'll only have to worry about recording MotoGP and WSBK races from here on out....

Tdawg

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Apr/080417a.htm

classes are fugged. Mixed on the spec tire thing, spec fuels s'ok

theJrod

These changes will have some very significant ramifications across the whole industry.

That is, if the manfucaturers don't just pull out.

They basically just turned the premier class into a support class.

Will the new rules result in closer racing? You bet. All the equipment will be basically the same.
Will the new rules cause manufacturers to pull out of the series? They pulled out of WSB for far less.

jwfzr

I hope they pull out.

nocontrol74

It seems to me like the regulations are all about increasing the competitiveness of the premier class. Why would this be a bad thing?

Why would making 600's the focus be a bad thing for manufacturers? If that is what they sell most of, it makes sense to make it the focus.

PeteN95

Those bastards, they killed Kenny! er, I mean roadracing. I guess this is about the worst of the many scenarios I imagined when DMG took over. They tricked us when they announced Superbikes would return to the 200 next year, what they meant was Formula Extreme was being renamed Superbike! And being made the premier class. I guess we still have Superbike, er...I mean Liter Bike? I can only imagine the factories and top riders will be racing in a support class?!? WTF!?!

<<Daytona Superbike will be open to "homologated and available motorcycles," will include "middleweight performance horsepower limits" and will have "targeted and specific power-to-weight ratios" (rider weight included).>>

WTF?? Don't drink the Koolaid. This is NASCAR, pretty soon there will be no development because they will give bikes that win too often extra weight to carry or some other performance penalty. They will strive for perfect parity between all the bikes, just like the identical cars of NASCAR. New tech ideas will be outlawed right away. Middleweight horsepower in the premier class, WTF?? Spec ECUs means no traction control, but with middleweight power, who cares? This sucks.

Moto-ST?? Besides the SV650 and Ninja 650, what big 4 bikes can race in any of these 3 classes? I sure hope this is just a bad dream.

nocontrol74

I'm still waiting to hear how close competition is bad for fans. Or how ensuring that more than just factory teams have a chance to win.

Can someone enlighten me on how this is bad for fans?

jwfzr

Read Petem95a post. Superbike means premier class not supersport. Take a look at Daytona. The 600s are the premier class for the 200 and it sucks beyond belief. These clowns need to be run out on their KFC eaten Mountain Dew drinkin arses.

theJrod

They could just televise WERA and get the same result.

jwfzr

Of course competition is not a bad thing and they will eliminate it entirely with these moronic rules. One tire OEM will eliminate any tire competition. Changing the premier class to 600s will more than likely make one or more of the Oems to drop out of the AMA. "less competition"
If you want to see privateers compete go to your local track. Those days are over.
There won't be any fans left to apprecaite their restructured ama racing.

nocontrol74

So if NASCAR is racing for people who aren't car enthusiasts, why would they turn AMA into anything different?

And I will ask it again how is this bad for fans?

mnewell

I think it will make it pretty interesting to see all those different bikes out there. It appears that they are trying to make a bigger sort of Moto-ST series. It's not too bad of an idea... Hell, I thought it was kinda cool to see the BMWs do as well as they did in the Daytona 200.

It will suck to not have the 600 races but most people are only concerned with the Superbike races which, by the way, are kinda boring when you know that at least 2 of the 3 top finishers are on Suzukis.

It's not the end of the world. There's always WSBK, MotoGP, BSB, SuperCross, and/or lawnmower racing on TV!

jwfzr

I answered already, you can watch it if you like. I'm sure I'm not alone in abandoning the series. 600s are not and should not be superbikes. There is a tradition and they don't seem to be concerned about it.
I like supersport as a support class not a premier class. Thats it for me.

gixer_racer

What fans though?? The average american doesn't give a shit about racing in general beyond nascar and definitely little interest in motorcycle racing....and as seen from just a small sampling of actual motorcycle riders on this forum with a few thousand people on it, the people the ACTUALLY RIDE THE BIKES aren't interested in it and will be watching other series.....so what fans? sounds like there won't be many.

Not to mention, IF the factories don't pull out, they've just pushed privateers out of business...just when they were finally getting to the point of competing closer to a fair playing field. The factories will parts bin engineer a perfect machine that is right at the limits of the rules... a privateer can't afford to buy 100 pistons just to get 4 perfect ones...

nocontrol74

That is he point. I don't think DMG cares about motorcycle enthusiasts. I think they want the average joe watching AMA racing the same way they watch NASCAR. The lack of financial success of AMA has proven that catering to that crowd may not be the best course of action.

jwfzr

Thats exactly his point. The only thing that the AMA has proven in the last 15 years or so is that they have no clue as to how to run a series. Superbike and supersport can work as the two premier classes. Everyother country does it with success. WSBK works. The AMA has not even tried it. They've compounded on cluster Farck on top of another for so long I cannot even remember when it started. It's not rocket surgery here and this f-upped format is certainly not the answer.

gixer_racer

Yup that's what their goal is.. but as I said, the hillbillies don't care about anything but nascar no matter how you sell it. (unless John Deere starts making a bike). They will fail on drawing the "new" crowd, and fail by losing those they already have. (and I can say hillibillies.... since I grew up in Oklahoma and have slung my share of shit and plowed my share of fields! )

And as mentioned in the other thread... what happens to development when you spec out the entire class??? Where's the incentive for the factory to make a better bike? Don't get me wrong, I LOVED WERA's "Production" class, but it merely limited you to a mostly stock bike (suspension, rearsets, clipons, brake lines, etc. could be changed) with very very very limited work to engine and stock pipe. Made for some great racing AND it keeps the costs down in the feeder organizations. But a premier class needs to be.. well... premier!

nocontrol74

The incentive for manufacturers is always to sell street bikes. to the extent that any racing series helps them do that, they will take advantage. This isn't to say that racing doesn't serve as a technology development arena, but to think the makers will suddenly stop innovating is an overstatement.

What if he premiere in the premiere class came down to the rider and not the machine?

Dave R

AMA SBK should and always has = HP ! Build it better, faster than your competitor and let's go racing ! AMA SBK has always been structured so that a fan could relate to the racebikes, in a similar way to NASCAR. The m/c had to based on a production street legal bike and resemble it aerodynamically. I am anxious to see the entire rules and see how the factories respond as well. From a biased point of view, I guess they don't want any Euro brands in SBK, only place is in Moto-ST but please don't bring your premiere model. If I could just convince Ducati to develop a mini D16 V4 600 they would then be allowed to play in the DMG premiere sand box.....


OK now Ducati you can really make me smile by just winning all 4 real racing rounds that will be held here in the US. 2 WSBK Rounds at Miller in May and then MotoGP at Laguna and then Indy ! Go Casey and Troy !

jwfzr

What incentive will they have to develop liter bikes anyfurther? The 750s have disappeared with the demise of a 750 class. When the 1000cc inlines were allowed to race ama and wsbk there was an explosion of development to a class that was stagnant for years. I don't think it's an overstatement at all. I think history show us whats going to happen.
The best riders always rise to the top.

jwfzr

While I don't agree with Fan boys like Gixxerpete often about racing I think he may be right about some things. We've seen a watering down ,if you will, of moto gp. Superbike is the last place you see monster "sometimes out of control" power. I really think it was a big mistake to eliminate the 250s in the AMA.
I want to see giant HP superbikes tearing around a track. If I wanted to see sub liter screamers I watch 250 gp, supersport or go down the local track.

Hypnotiq

Stupid! Stupid! STUPID!!!

First of all, 1000cc Superbikes should always be the PREMIER class. The best riders on the best possible equipment. Period. Dropping this class is very shortsighted. Also, how are we to propel American riders into the International circuit like WSBK and MotoGP when our "Premier" class is a 600SB? LAMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Spec fuel/tires. I'm fine with that. Spec tires has made WSBK/WSS awesome. It does hurt the privateers a bit though as there are min tire requirements, etc. So I'm a little torn there.

MotoST. NASCRAP people need to understand that people may enjoy watching a 3 hour car race, a 3 hour (250mi) motorcycle racing will result it the channel getting changed.

Literbike class. Where to start.

So essentially, you've made it so that the only class a "privateer" can run in, is MotoST.

BRLNT!

PeteN95

The question is which fans are you talking about? The existing AMA fanbase or the new, previously non motorcycle racing fans which DMG is after? DMG has a proven system making NASCAR and Grand Am racing quite competitive and successful. By enhancing the personalities and making the bikes as equal as possible, fans of riders/drivers are created, while fans of technology are screwed. Not to be sexist, but the majority of theses new fans will be women, like the reckless, romantic MILFs chasing Kasey Kahne in those TV commercials.

One likely result that may occur in the near future is the possibility of new production 600 sport bikes on the showroom floor actually being faster than the AMA Superbikes!?! Because of the spec ECUs, likely to eliminate TC, and the possiblity of a spec HP limit, continued development of production motorcycles will likily surpass the artificially limited AMA Superbikes. This means that eventually the teams will actually have to degrade the performance of their race bikes in order to race! New bikes will likely have TC, but it will need to be removed to race.

GixxerPete

Right... dumb it down and ruin it for the inbred redneck masses. They already have NASCRAP for the inbred and brain dead, do they really need to do the same thing for motorcycle racing? Don't they realize that rednecks are not now, nor will ever be the fan base for motorcycle racing? DUH

PeteN95

Let me give an example of what they do. I worked on a team which raced the IMSA GTP series 20 years ago. These were the highest level of sportscar racing and have been replaced by the "Daytona Pototypes" run by DMG. In 1990 we raced the Daytona 24hrs, one of the most famous endurance races in the world. Our Porsche 962C qualified on pole at a 1:37.83 sec. lap, driven by the late, great Bob Wollek. The 2007 24hr pole position, held by Alex Gurney in a Daytona Prototype, was 1:43.38. 5 1/2 seconds a lap slower than 17 years before! And you know the tires have improved since then! The term "Superbike" will soon be just as meaningless as the word "Prototype", they will both mean "spec racer". WTF!