PNW Riders

jammer · 05-25-2009, 08:38 AM

I thought this was neat. Sticky in the portland forum (yes I was cheating on the roseburg forum)

HOW WE RIDE: What to expect on PNW group rides. Please Read!

gfeero · 05-25-2009, 10:05 AM

Hmmmm, a bunch of that looked very familiar.

Seriously though, good to know that folks are taking note of that last chapter. Last Sat. I was definitely the tail falling back. I gave myself the willies on a corner, not staying to the outside long enough and not looking through the corner deep enough, and well, the rest of the group sort of walked away from me. It was nice that Jennifer and Mary let the two sportbikes go on ahead and held up for me. I think everyone was happy by the time we met back up in Glide. (Hopefully) I'll be practicing more on the two laners again. Sort of like pulling a horse trailer the first few years of doing it. Every spring, that feeling of not being sure of what I was doing, would be back. By fall, everything would be peachy again.

Need to quit procrastinating and write a paper...

Gwen

nighthawker · 05-25-2009, 10:16 AM

glad to bring this up.. i didnt follow the link but i had a question or two about our group riding..

on ride A, the group of us kept together fairly well for miles and then a rider dropped off causing the rest of the group to stop on the side of the highway in the safest place available(if there is such a thing) to see if anyone knew anything or if we need to go back and check the ditches..
on ride B, the fasters went ahead,which was fine. i and another purposly reeled it in much more than usual to keep the sweep/drag rider in sight even though. i
figured to catch up with those who went on at the next intersection(which would have been a big one with easy off), but instead they went ahead to the stop.

so for ride A...communicating would have solved hat issue.

and for ride B..do we not wait for each other on group rides at intersections anymore?

or maybe i need to drop group riding expectations??

gfeero · 05-25-2009, 10:24 AM

In the future, I'll do more practice so I don't drop back that far. Also, we just need to be sure what the expectations are at the beginning. Since the intersection wasn't that far from the turn-around point, it was ok to continue up to the store. Had this been a different route though, it would have been really irritating even to the pokey person in back.

We might need to hammer out a few of the quirks, but I'm game.

Gwen

Revmeup · 05-25-2009, 10:32 AM

I think the group ride sticky should be in all the areas just to be handy

gfeero · 05-25-2009, 10:36 AM

Technically, the newbie should be near the rear with an experienced rider being sweep. I took the rear because of lower cornering clearance and the springtime lack of confidence on 2 lane tight corners. It turned out ok for me, but possibly one of the folks who slowed up for me wasn't happy. So, we'll communicate more next time.

Gwen

nighthawker · 05-25-2009, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by gfeero

In the future, I'll do more practice so I don't drop back that far. Also, we just need to be sure what the expectations are at the beginning. Since the intersection wasn't that far from the turn-around point, it was ok to continue up to the store. Had this been a different route though, it would have been really irritating even to the pokey person in back.

We might need to hammer out a few of the quirks, but I'm game.

Gwen

its how its been in every group ive ever rode with. you wait at the next big intersection no matter how close or far it is to where ever. whats the GROUP riding if youre going by twos and threes? part of it is getting time as a GROUP and part of it is making sure noone falls out. they could have sat at the store waiting and waiting if something had happened to any one of us. i can ride anytime by two or three as ive done always. that day was a GROUP ride. we stayed back at a speed necessary to keep you in view. we could have rolled on but then that would have left you on your own for a while. wed have been waiting for you at the intersection to pick back up on our GROUP ride to roll the last bit into town.
and the other rider dropping off.. it was unsafe to stop a group of bikes on a highway. it sucked wondering if he was balled up some place. it was hot that day, wed have just had to follow the buzzards.
maybe my GROUP riding ettiqute is off. i think ill just kick off until this gets hammered out...

gfeero · 05-25-2009, 10:47 AM

Nope your group etiquette is right on, it was us that were rusty. Sorry. We'll have it hammered next time. I've been riding alone for far too long.

The other two guys, well, we'll just take care of that too. Its obvious that I'm not going to go as fast as some others. Regardless of my confidence, I have stuff dragging way sooner than you guys. So, I volunteer to bring up the rear and carry the first aid kit. I think we can get this hammered out, it's early this summer, and we've new folks that I think are trainable. Do what you feel comfortable in doing. We'll see how quick we can get it down.
Gwen

jammer · 05-25-2009, 11:31 AM

The group A ride you mentioned was the reason I posted this. I didn't like not having any signals or way of communication that I had to go. I posted a thread of exchanging cell numbers for such a problem but didn't get much of a response from the forum. I wouldn't mind have a planned route with leader/sweeper and planned stops. That particular ride I was planning on turning around at the Camas Store and followed past Signal Tree out 42 waiting for a chance to communicate my need to turn around. Only numbers I had were the two people not riding that day.

gfeero · 05-25-2009, 01:05 PM

The assumption that every knows and or agrees is a problem, no matter what group or subject. We'll just have to work on being more upfront as to where and when to stop, and signals, etc. I figure, when I stop learning things will be when it's time to spread my ashes out by my bass pond.

Gwen

nighthawker · 05-25-2009, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by jammer

The group A ride you mentioned was the reason I posted this. I didn't like not having any signals or way of communication that I had to go. I posted a thread of exchanging cell numbers for such a problem but didn't get much of a response from the forum. I wouldn't mind have a planned route with leader/sweeper and planned stops. That particular ride I was planning on turning around at the Camas Store and followed past Signal Tree out 42 waiting for a chance to communicate my need to turn around. Only numbers I had were the two people not riding that day.

cool..
i think we all just figured that since you went out he ride that you were gonna skip the library since there wasnt any mention further than that on it.. i think communication would have solved that. that we would have known that you planned on pulling off somewhere down the road.
im glad you put this up. having numbers would certianly have put an answer but we still would have had to stop on the road ti figure that out. knowing before hand i think is better.. in the past on group rides, if i was gonna bail, i made sure to get at least ones attention and wave bye. of course on that particular ride i dont know where that could have happened. we were all moving out and it would probably have been more dangerous for you to run someone down(especially on the road) to wave bye. i like to be on the same page.

jammer · 05-25-2009, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by nighthawker

cool..
i think we all just figured that since you went out he ride that you were gonna skip the library since there wasnt any mention further than that on it.. i think communication would have solved that. that we would have known that you planned on pulling off somewhere down the road.
im glad you put this up. having numbers would certianly have put an answer but we still would have had to stop on the road ti figure that out. knowing before hand i think is better.. in the past on group rides, if i was gonna bail, i made sure to get at least ones attention and wave bye. of course on that particular ride i dont know where that could have happened. we were all moving out and it would probably have been more dangerous for you to run someone down(especially on the road) to wave bye. i like to be on the same page.

Yah someone else mentioned being back by 3pm so I wasn't planning on bailing. But when 2:50 rolled around and we were past Camas going west I figured plans must have changed. I agree, was definitely communication. We all were not on the same page. Phone numbers are a good BACKUP plan to communication pre/during ride.

nighthawker · 05-25-2009, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by jammer

Yah someone else mentioned being back by 3pm so I wasn't planning on bailing. But when 2:50 rolled around and we were past Camas going west I figured plans must have changed. I agree, was definitely communication. We all were not on the same page. Phone numbers are a good BACKUP plan to communication pre/during ride.

indeed 3pm was mentioned. i remember that. i thought the same thing and lol it was at abou the same time and place as you did... i think were on some different time thing. speaking of.. the bike night sit around eat and chat happens on thursday. cool... i thought the saturday deal was to meet up and roll out. our ride time. i think the last sat ride might have been different because we had a guest but we didnt roll out until 2:47. id like clarity on that. sat 2pm, does that mean meet at 2 bench race and then go whenever everyone motates?? folks were eating and sitting around so thats what we did.. id rather have met and then rolled. if 2 is the meet time, what time are KSU? for me this is an important issue. the sitting and waiting contributed to my cutting out of the ride later that afternoon. i realize that folks dont have the same issues as i do and thats fine. i dont expect special treatment. but if the meet is at 2 and we dont roll for a half an hour or fifty minutes, then i can show up at that time instead of the other or even catch up some place on the route if that were known. im not some time nazi either where things have to be bam bam bam bam bam..i am flexible believe it or not.

im glad we are getting this figured out. i think we certianly should foster a climate where folks can express concerns and a concensus can be reached.

my concerns are communication of course, group riding(staying together or doing ones own thing,meeting when split up no matter how or where), the ride pace(ass, somewhat ass, more ass and even more ass

), times and i would like to hear the opinions of those who ride in this group.

nighthawker · 05-25-2009, 04:06 PM

i read the thread and its pretty standard stuff. all of it

nighthawker · 05-26-2009, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by nighthawker

indeed 3pm was mentioned. i remember that. i thought the same thing and lol it was at abou the same time and place as you did... i think were on some different time thing. speaking of.. the bike night sit around eat and chat happens on thursday. cool... i thought the saturday deal was to meet up and roll out. our ride time. i think the last sat ride might have been different because we had a guest but we didnt roll out until 2:47. id like clarity on that. sat 2pm, does that mean meet at 2 bench race and then go whenever everyone motates?? folks were eating and sitting around so thats what we did.. id rather have met and then rolled. if 2 is the meet time, what time are KSU? for me this is an important issue. the sitting and waiting contributed to my cutting out of the ride later that afternoon. i realize that folks dont have the same issues as i do and thats fine. i dont expect special treatment. but if the meet is at 2 and we dont roll for a half an hour or fifty minutes, then i can show up at that time instead of the other or even catch up some place on the route if that were known. im not some time nazi either where things have to be bam bam bam bam bam..i am flexible believe it or not.

im glad we are getting this figured out. i think we certianly should foster a climate where folks can express concerns and a concensus can be reached.

my concerns are communication of course, group riding(staying together or doing ones own thing,meeting when split up no matter how or where), the ride pace(ass, somewhat ass, more ass and even more ass

), times and i would like to hear the opinions of those who ride in this group.

so no other thoughts on group riding from the group??

jammer · 05-26-2009, 10:43 PM

If it were up to me I would just adopt the Ptown sticky. Seems like you and I are the only ones responding to this thread though

nighthawker · 05-26-2009, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by jammer

If it were up to me I would just adopt the Ptown sticky. Seems like you and I are the only ones responding to this thread though

i see that. at least you and i will be on the same page. i suppose thats better than nothing..
again thanks for bringing it up

speedholes · 05-26-2009, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by jammer

If it were up to me I would just adopt the Ptown sticky. Seems like you and I are the only ones responding to this thread though

Alright I'll bite.

I like it. Group riding is different from "riding in a group".

On our "Group Rides", these rules are a good idea.

However, if more than two members band together for a ride, as long as it is stated beforehand, I don't think waiting is in order. Again, as long as all parties involved know the structure

cascaderider · 05-27-2009, 12:13 AM

I'm responding! I had a nice long response earlier today but I had to get back to work and wasn't happy with my post so I didn't submit it.

I agree with everything said, everywhere, by everyone.

-By default, group rides should follow the "no child left behind" standard
-If you're not in for the duration, please communicate beforehand, and if you turn around in a different place than first communicated, make sure the rider in front of you gets a signal of some sort they can later communicate to the group
-Any of the rules can change as long as they are communicated and understood by all PRIOR to commencing the ride

There are considerations which make group rides not always ideal:

-All riders at different skill/comfort levels
-Some riders want to ride at the edge of their skill level (pushing) and may not be into "group" rides on a particular day

These points have sub-points, but the most important in my opinion is this:

-While every rider is personally accountable for riding their own ride, it's quite natural to push yourself when with other more aggressive and experienced riders. This is good for developing skill, but relies on the judgment of said less-experienced rider in the group. I would feel bad if riding in a group where someone got hurt (or worse) due to riding beyond their limits while trying to keep up.

Individually, we have no control over anyone's ride but our own, but we certainly want to look out for each other.

Just my .02.

Btw, we have a great (ever-growing) group and it's a pleasure to ride with every one of you.

a109driver · 05-27-2009, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by nighthawker

so no other thoughts on group riding from the group??

Originally Posted by jammer

If it were up to me I would just adopt the Ptown sticky. Seems like you and I are the only ones responding to this thread though

I'm not part of your usual group, but I was a guest with you last weekend. I haven't read the Ptown sticky, and I've only done one group ride prior to last weekend. On that ride, the faster riders would do their thing for a mile or two, then slow to a crawl or stop to wait at a convenient, safe place.

Nothing was really discussed around me prior to departure at Sonic, so I assumed everyone would hold positions during the ride. When the front rider (Jennifer) twice motioned for me to pass, I did it and figured that's the way you guys do it there. That was fine with me. I like to lean on the corners and it was a fun road for that.

On our ride to Glide, after passing you guys, I planned on waiting at the intersection of North Bank Rd and Diamond Lake Hwy, since Jason and I had passed a couple of cars and didn't want to have them in front slowing us down (again). At the intersection, Jason and I popped open our visors and he told me that the planned stop was just ahead. Since the intersection wasn't a very good place to stop, we proceeded. You guys were there before we dismounted.

My primary thoughts on group riding is to treat it like formation flying. There are staggered, trail, and free cruise formations. You use the one that's best for the conditions. The primary need on a road like North Bank is to be safe while enjoying the ride. A staggered formation on a curvy road is not safe since it doesn't allow full use of the lane for obstacles or tight turns. Since we all enjoy riding twisty roads at different speeds, we should all pace ourselves for our own level of enjoyment. There should always be a minimum of two riders holding a pace together, like a wingman, or a scuba diver using a buddy system, so that if one goes down, the other is there to assist. On a freeway or straight road with constant speed and long distance view ahead, it's enjoyable to ride a staggered formation, but on the curves, some want to feel the curves, while others want to enjoy the scenery. On a curvy road, I want full use of my lane and plenty of room ahead and behind to accelerate and slow without obstructions. In that case, most of the pleasure of riding in a group is when we stop and enjoy each other's company during a break. After writing all this, I will check out the Ptown sticky to see what it has to say.

I'd like to ride with you guys again, and I'll follow any rules you have. My wife would've come on that ride as my passenger, but we didn't know how far you guys go between stops, and she didn't want to get stuck on back for more than 30-45 minutes. After telling her about the ride, she would probably come along next time, so I would definitely have to slow down with her on back. But, even she likes the exhileration of speed.

gfeero · 05-27-2009, 06:35 AM

I'm with you. I thoroughly enjoyed the ride and had no problem with meeting up at the store. I pretty much knew I'd be bringing up the rear, no matter what, and was glad to start that way. So, I'd bring up the rear with any of you folks again, no problem. That short of a run, I think meeting at the store is the best anyway, since it is a somewhat well traveled road by cars. If someone doesn't show by the time the rest of the group is sitting, then there is a problem and not that long of a wait for a search. Now, if we were to all have gone out Buckhorn, I think it would be nice for the faster riders to find a safe spot now and then to wait.

Just my 2 cents and it might not be worth that much.

Gwen

varment · 05-27-2009, 04:10 PM

I figured since the stop at the store had already been agreed upon then that is where every one would meet back up once we were separated....

Its my Army training to meet at a predeturmined rally point when you get split up... I'm good to follow any rules if you all want to put some down...

nighthawker · 05-27-2009, 10:22 PM

:

Originally Posted by varment

I'm good to follow any rules if you all want to put some down...

not rules.. who likes a bunch of rules?? just better communication so as to be on the same page

jammer · 05-28-2009, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by nighthawker

:

not rules.. who likes a bunch of rules?? just better communication so as to be on the same page


05-25-2009, 08:38 AM	#1
jammer Training Wheels Joined: May 2009 From: Organ Donor	How they ride in P-town I thought this was neat. Sticky in the portland forum (yes I was cheating on the roseburg forum) HOW WE RIDE: What to expect on PNW group rides. Please Read! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-25-2009, 10:05 AM	#2
gfeero Pit Crew Joined: Nov 2008 From: Myrtle Creek, OR I Ride: HD 1200C	Hmmmm, a bunch of that looked very familiar. Seriously though, good to know that folks are taking note of that last chapter. Last Sat. I was definitely the tail falling back. I gave myself the willies on a corner, not staying to the outside long enough and not looking through the corner deep enough, and well, the rest of the group sort of walked away from me. It was nice that Jennifer and Mary let the two sportbikes go on ahead and held up for me. I think everyone was happy by the time we met back up in Glide. (Hopefully) I'll be practicing more on the two laners again. Sort of like pulling a horse trailer the first few years of doing it. Every spring, that feeling of not being sure of what I was doing, would be back. By fall, everything would be peachy again. Need to quit procrastinating and write a paper... Gwen __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-25-2009, 10:16 AM	#3
nighthawker Superbiker Joined: Mar 2009 From: sutherlin, oregon I Ride: cb750	glad to bring this up.. i didnt follow the link but i had a question or two about our group riding.. on ride A, the group of us kept together fairly well for miles and then a rider dropped off causing the rest of the group to stop on the side of the highway in the safest place available(if there is such a thing) to see if anyone knew anything or if we need to go back and check the ditches.. on ride B, the fasters went ahead,which was fine. i and another purposly reeled it in much more than usual to keep the sweep/drag rider in sight even though. i figured to catch up with those who went on at the next intersection(which would have been a big one with easy off), but instead they went ahead to the stop. so for ride A...communicating would have solved hat issue. and for ride B..do we not wait for each other on group rides at intersections anymore? or maybe i need to drop group riding expectations?? __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-25-2009, 10:24 AM	#4
gfeero Pit Crew Joined: Nov 2008 From: Myrtle Creek, OR I Ride: HD 1200C	In the future, I'll do more practice so I don't drop back that far. Also, we just need to be sure what the expectations are at the beginning. Since the intersection wasn't that far from the turn-around point, it was ok to continue up to the store. Had this been a different route though, it would have been really irritating even to the pokey person in back. We might need to hammer out a few of the quirks, but I'm game. Gwen __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-25-2009, 10:32 AM	#5
Revmeup Superbiker Joined: May 2008 From: Vancouver, WA Blog Entries: 1 I Ride: a lil red Ninja 2 fiddy	I think the group ride sticky should be in all the areas just to be handy __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by Revmeup; 05-25-2009 at 04:41 PM..

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05-25-2009, 10:36 AM	#6
gfeero Pit Crew Joined: Nov 2008 From: Myrtle Creek, OR I Ride: HD 1200C	Technically, the newbie should be near the rear with an experienced rider being sweep. I took the rear because of lower cornering clearance and the springtime lack of confidence on 2 lane tight corners. It turned out ok for me, but possibly one of the folks who slowed up for me wasn't happy. So, we'll communicate more next time. Gwen __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-25-2009, 10:47 AM	#8
gfeero Pit Crew Joined: Nov 2008 From: Myrtle Creek, OR I Ride: HD 1200C	Nope your group etiquette is right on, it was us that were rusty. Sorry. We'll have it hammered next time. I've been riding alone for far too long. The other two guys, well, we'll just take care of that too. Its obvious that I'm not going to go as fast as some others. Regardless of my confidence, I have stuff dragging way sooner than you guys. So, I volunteer to bring up the rear and carry the first aid kit. I think we can get this hammered out, it's early this summer, and we've new folks that I think are trainable. Do what you feel comfortable in doing. We'll see how quick we can get it down. Gwen __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-25-2009, 11:31 AM	#9
jammer Training Wheels Joined: May 2009 From: Organ Donor	The group A ride you mentioned was the reason I posted this. I didn't like not having any signals or way of communication that I had to go. I posted a thread of exchanging cell numbers for such a problem but didn't get much of a response from the forum. I wouldn't mind have a planned route with leader/sweeper and planned stops. That particular ride I was planning on turning around at the Camas Store and followed past Signal Tree out 42 waiting for a chance to communicate my need to turn around. Only numbers I had were the two people not riding that day. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-25-2009, 01:05 PM	#10
gfeero Pit Crew Joined: Nov 2008 From: Myrtle Creek, OR I Ride: HD 1200C	The assumption that every knows and or agrees is a problem, no matter what group or subject. We'll just have to work on being more upfront as to where and when to stop, and signals, etc. I figure, when I stop learning things will be when it's time to spread my ashes out by my bass pond. Gwen __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-25-2009, 04:06 PM	#14
nighthawker Superbiker Joined: Mar 2009 From: sutherlin, oregon I Ride: cb750	i read the thread and its pretty standard stuff. all of it __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-26-2009, 10:43 PM	#16
jammer Training Wheels Joined: May 2009 From: Organ Donor	If it were up to me I would just adopt the Ptown sticky. Seems like you and I are the only ones responding to this thread though __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-27-2009, 12:13 AM	#19
cascaderider Moderator Joined: Mar 2008 From: Roseburg, OR I Ride: to be determined	I'm responding! I had a nice long response earlier today but I had to get back to work and wasn't happy with my post so I didn't submit it. I agree with everything said, everywhere, by everyone. -By default, group rides should follow the "no child left behind" standard -If you're not in for the duration, please communicate beforehand, and if you turn around in a different place than first communicated, make sure the rider in front of you gets a signal of some sort they can later communicate to the group -Any of the rules can change as long as they are communicated and understood by all PRIOR to commencing the ride There are considerations which make group rides not always ideal: -All riders at different skill/comfort levels -Some riders want to ride at the edge of their skill level (pushing) and may not be into "group" rides on a particular day These points have sub-points, but the most important in my opinion is this: -While every rider is personally accountable for riding their own ride, it's quite natural to push yourself when with other more aggressive and experienced riders. This is good for developing skill, but relies on the judgment of said less-experienced rider in the group. I would feel bad if riding in a group where someone got hurt (or worse) due to riding beyond their limits while trying to keep up. Individually, we have no control over anyone's ride but our own, but we certainly want to look out for each other. Just my .02. Btw, we have a great (ever-growing) group and it's a pleasure to ride with every one of you. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-27-2009, 06:35 AM	#21
gfeero Pit Crew Joined: Nov 2008 From: Myrtle Creek, OR I Ride: HD 1200C	I'm with you. I thoroughly enjoyed the ride and had no problem with meeting up at the store. I pretty much knew I'd be bringing up the rear, no matter what, and was glad to start that way. So, I'd bring up the rear with any of you folks again, no problem. That short of a run, I think meeting at the store is the best anyway, since it is a somewhat well traveled road by cars. If someone doesn't show by the time the rest of the group is sitting, then there is a problem and not that long of a wait for a search. Now, if we were to all have gone out Buckhorn, I think it would be nice for the faster riders to find a safe spot now and then to wait. Just my 2 cents and it might not be worth that much. Gwen __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


05-27-2009, 04:10 PM	#22
varment Zone Head Joined: Apr 2009 From: Roseburg, Oregon I Ride: 2008 Ninja 650R	I figured since the stop at the store had already been agreed upon then that is where every one would meet back up once we were separated.... Its my Army training to meet at a predeturmined rally point when you get split up... I'm good to follow any rules if you all want to put some down... __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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