:thefinge::thefinge::thefinge: The point was, the end goal is the same. Racefreak likes to go super fast and that puts a smile on his face. Cjohns wants to make his own motor and push it to the limit...it puts a smile on his face. I like to ride (and high side) old iron, it puts a smile on my face. See the common denominator?
If a GS500 made 75HP and had decent suspension and frame, there would be no need, but it doesn't, unless you're Cedric Smith. But he had to do a lot more to his GS than simply killing a cylinder! This is racecraft at it's best, figuring out how to build a machine that can win within a certain set of rules for the least amount of $. And that is the final judgement, can it win? It's really the only thing that matters. :secret:
lol.....haters gonna keep on hatin'. I'm not trying to convince anyone this is right or wrong or whatever...this is a winter track bike project, nothing more, nothing less. If I don't like it, I'm out my work, a set of used cams and a couple parts here and there. It goes right back to 600ville fairly easy......which is....kinda the point. This is my SV650 superbike--so to speak. Racing and the technique applied to it isn't always about horsepower.
...which is why I go flat-tracking on XR100s as well as 450's, ride mini-motards, and dirt bikes. Sometimes horsepower is limiting your ability to learn, which means you're not extracting the "last bit of performance" out of the rider. When my fiance outgrows my Hawk GT, this is likely to be the next step up. Fully modern chassis/suspension/brakes, easy to find parts/spares, and when she's ready to move up again, I can turn it back into a 600 in a weekend. SVs are great and all that, but that chassis just wasn't a race chassis, and it's never going to be. No matter how many GSXR parts you bolt onto it.
Looks like I'm late to the party Hi [MENTION=31144]Wally[/MENTION] We had a great convo with [MENTION=31144]Wally[/MENTION], Ian and Dave Moss when I was at the AFM race weekend in Sonoma listen here http://twowheelpodcast.podbean.com/e/episode-46-live-from-sonoma/ the guys really break it down well AND I have rode the GSXR450 its a great bike.
Ryan, This idea came about when 2 things happened. The first was that the 450 class down in Cal started to die off, because the bikes and parts were getting hard to come by. The 2nd was when 04-05 GSXR 600s started popping up for $1500. They no longer are competitive to race in just about any class. With the mods required to turn the 600 into a 450 and some race bits, you can have a decent GSXR450 for less than the price of a ninja 250 with suspension. These bikes have the same HP as a lightly modded SV, but weigh a lot less, and have better geometry and handling characteristics. If you look at it like someone taking a 600 race bike and detuning it, it doesn't make sense. If you look at it as someone taking a non competitive bike and building it into a competitive bike for another class for less than $3500 including the bike, then it makes a little more sense. Phil
owned a cb-1 for years. Chassis not great for serious track fun. Same motor as the cbr400rr. Lovely gear drive sound. 57hp on edr dyno had an fzr400 and cannot believe I let her make me sell it. Terrorized all the big bikes on skyline and at orp. currently have a 96 cbr400rr. Can nearly drag an elbow it is so user friendly.
Meant to get back here a LONG time ago, but work and life really got busy. Time for a little catch-up. I have done a fair amount of commuting, and the latest I did on the bike now is a trackday on Memorial Day at Spokane with Inland Speed. 1/2 hour track session, dry track, cloudy and coolish all day. Perfect weather til it rained around 3pm. I was pretty much done (forearms) by then anyway--was losing feel in my arms--especially with the clutch. First track day--more to come. Gotta get in bike-shape again. The bike has just previously been re-tuned by Nels, and I got a chance to change the gearing a bit also. The tune is DEAD on now as far as I am concerned--Nels did a WAY EXCELLENT job, and found a few things that needed to be corrected due to the process of eliminating one cylinder that had been overlooked. Anyhow, few more (back)-updates soon. Will get the dyno posted also.
Going to bore you all a bit since home with some bronchitis/allergy crap. The rest of the winter work included case covers and a gearing change. Hardest part was getting around/under the bodywork. Gearing change was by FAR much harder than I thought due to the breaking pressure required to get the bolt off the main drive, along with the non-standard-type bolt that Kawasaki puts in here. Stator bolts ended up being pure hell also. Right hand side before: After: To clean the seal surface, 3M makes abrasive bristle discs and brushes for both drill and Dremel tool that won't scratch the medal, but takes all the old material off extremely nice. I had a drill and a different brand of brush witch worked well, just wouldn't fit around some areas covered by bodywork. Little reminder to self to get a Dremel tool sometime soon.
Right side case cover above was very misleading if I thought the left side cover and gear change was going to be just as easy. This should give you and idea of the force it takes to pull off the front sprocket bolt: I also used a heat gun to get the bolt to loosen. Used a piece of wood placed between the wheel spokes and the rear swing arm with the bike in neutral. For those that haven't heard of this---you can do MEGA-damage to your bike if you put the bike in gear and attempt the same removal. I think I used a 25mm socket to get this bolt off. Not a perfect-direct fit, but it did work. If anyone knows anything that IS a direct fit....let me know....I did quite a bit of searching on this and couldn't really find anything better. Kawi truly put this bolt on for the life of the bike. Not super-proud of the work I did on the lock washer. Pretty embarrassed to post this, I like to do cleaner work than that for sure. Looks pretty rough--extremely soft metal, rounded out around the entire main bolt and had to be flattened on all sides to get the 25mm socket to fully seat. On to more pure knuckle breaking hell!
These guys can absolutely ruin your day. Four of these hold the stator on the stator cover, and take A LOT of patience to get off for a new stator cover. I tried the heat gun on these also, but one bolt would eventually NOT come off, and I had to remove the button head with a drill to get the stator out and onto the new cover. Wasn't going to go through this again, so I used the bristle brush to take off the OEM thread lock and added a smaller amount of red loctite instead. Had to be some type of serious JB Weld that Kawi used on these. I still haven't been able to get the rest of the bolt out of the OEM stator cover using heat and vise-grips. Finally done:
Last couple items I did and referenced earlier was the Pinebox exhaust chamber eliminator. I have no idea what the stock exhaust weighs, but this had to cut out a fair chunk off the bike. This is basically the link to the exhaust pipe from the end of the header. Good stuff. I would really recommend this if you are not getting the full exhaust. The pipe is nice quality, WELL made, and fits right in--all gaskets are OEM and used over again. Link here: pineboxonline.com Pics: New exhaust: Sounds way better! Last of all, rear sprocket change: Dyno still to come!
Really glad I had a second dyno and tuning done--we found a few little problems that hadn't been thought of. After the first tuning the bike seemed to be running richer and richer, and eventually had some throttle run-on that it didn't have right after the tuning. Once on the second dyno, it turned out that the bike was running rich and had adjusted itself base on the MAP sensor reading of the dead cylinder. Nels figured this out (I certainly had no clue here) and after plugging a couple vacuum lines and getting the computer to read off only the running cylinders....you have what you see here. Almost 80 Hp and nearly 32 ft-lbs. of torque. Anyway, important to note, for this conversion you also have to block off the MAP vacuum lines going to the dead cylinder. I don't know if I missed something somewhere, but this is certainly a requirement for the bike to run right. I'd been running like this since I did the first test conversion using only the dummy injectors. If anyone is interested in doing something like this to your 09-12 ZX6r, I believe you can ship your ECU to Dynoworks and have Nels flash the computer with the same map done on this bike. Dyno work is already done. Nels does a most excellent job. I'd have truly been STUCK without his work. :mfclap: 2wheeldynoworks.com Second track day review: The bike runs REALLY well. Very big fan of bikes in this HP range. Very good/fast quick throttle response, excellent roll-on throttle coming from neutral in the corners (no sputter/hesitation) to slight throttle building mid, to full out of corners. Power is the same as previous, really hits around 12-14K rpm. It usually takes me a couple sessions to quit short-shifting like I do on the street, or with the SV I have. Hoping to make this full race for next year. Last, hit me up for questions if you have them, and most of all, see you at the track!!
I've reeeeeally enjoyed watching your progress on this and love to see folks taking on the unusual challenge and making something like this happen. Great job on this and thanks for keeping this post updated! It makes me really wonder why one of the major players out there don't come up with a 400cc ish triple in a decent price range, but I suppose it has to do with the market and what most people want- and most people in this market want the 600cc class for the same price. EDIT: Wow, that A/F ratio is about the flatest I've ever seen. Pretty darn amazing!
Thanks man!! Whole lotta credit to Nels for nailing it in both in the map, and the trouble shooting/fixes that came on the second Dyno. Bike would be great to start racing on, and when a person got good and comfortable on track, ready for more horse power--can easily be switched back.
