PNW Riders

Alpine 318is · 04-15-2009, 08:35 PM

Little background on me and my track experience.

I did 2 nesba days back in Seattle Washington on a 1991 FZR 600 both in the B group.

I since have moved to Philly for school and have purchased a a 2003 Suzuki GSX-R 600 and signed up for NJMP on May 15th. Here is the kicker. The Gixxer has pretty much brand new pilot roads on them. Now I would prefer to be out on the track with a more race oriented tire like a diablo or a power or a dunlop qualifier but i cant justify dropping $400 + for tires and install.

I'm not trying to go out there and rip out like Valentino Rossi at Mugello but Im also trying to have a good time without having poor tires slow me down.

Any advice would be great. Or any questions about my ridding ability and experience feel free to ask.

Thanks guys,

Seppi

Jet City Racer · 04-15-2009, 08:46 PM

Check the local forums or the Wera board and get some takeoffs if you want more bite. TBH~ The Roads should be more than OK in the slower groups.

Alpine 318is · 04-15-2009, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by Jet City Racer

Check the local forums or the Wera board and get some takeoffs if you want more bite. TBH~ The Roads should be more than OK in the slower groups.

I was thinking about going that road. But the tires plus putting them on plus putting my roads back off is like a $400 adventure.

Jet City Racer · 04-15-2009, 08:57 PM

You should be able to get decent take offs for $100

eric · 04-15-2009, 09:05 PM

If you're in B, I suspect you'll get more grip from Pilot Roads than take offs...

Alpine 318is · 04-15-2009, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by eric

If you're in B, I suspect you'll get more grip from Pilot Roads than take offs...

Explain

Edit: Not trying to be rude, just trying to learn.

Alanjtc73n · 04-15-2009, 09:32 PM

Brand new Pilot Roads should have more grip than a set of take-offs that have gone through a bunch of heat cycles. For a hundred bucks you'll probably get some hard, blued tires that might have lots of tread but no grip. I think you'll be fine with the pilot roads. Especially if you're going to be in the B group. Plus you get rid of the chicken strips on some road tires!

What Eric means is that race tires require heat for them to develop consistent grip. If you're not pushing it hard, you won't get them heated up to the proper temperature. And the fact that heat cycled tires become harder as they lose their oils (that blue sheen). As you start to feel the difference between tire types you'll find that street tires have more initial grip while race tires have more grip after proper heating. When I first got on the track I always rode my street bike with street tires. When I finally got a race bike and threw on a proper set of race hoops, I quickly found the need for heat. Yes...I managed to crash on the warm up lap due to cold race tires.

Seriously, you'll be fine. I took an Aprilia Futura out at Putnam Park in Indiana for a demo ride and the pilot roads were great. Easily decked out the pegs and they had plenty more grip.

fastfoodfred · 04-15-2009, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Alpine 318is

Explain

Edit: Not trying to be rude, just trying to learn.

You won't be able to get the heat into the take-off's to get them up to the correct operating temperature. The Pilot roads will get in their "zone" better in the slower group speeds.

You should be as honest as you can with yourself and ask how fast you really are.

One other thing, the street tires of today offer probably more grip than the race tires of 10 years ago. You should also be able to feel the tires complaining before they would ever toss you. Just stay within their limits and have fun.

Damon Mon Wai · 04-16-2009, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by fastfoodfred

One other thing, the street tires of today offer probably more grip than the race tires of 10 years ago. You should also be able to feel the tires complaining before they would ever toss you. Just stay within their limits and have fun.

I totally agree! The current street tires do have more grip then DOT race tires from 10 years ago.

Unless you are trying to set a new track record then I think you should be fine on the tires you have now.

tunus · 04-16-2009, 02:17 AM

You should be fine with the Pilot Roads. I did a track day on Dunlop D207s which are comparable (and maybe worse) street tires and was fine in the B Group. I did crash that day which I blame entirely on the tires but it was while I was getting evaluated for the I group and chasing a CR. Up until that point they held up pretty well.

Alpine 318is · 04-16-2009, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by fastfoodfred

You should be as honest as you can with yourself and ask how fast you really are.

I agree I'm not very fast at all. 1:55 at PR with my FZR, but I also dont want to go out there on bad equipment. I dont wanna bring a knife to a gun fight.

Alpine 318is · 04-16-2009, 05:33 AM

What I understand about race takeoffs is they have already been through a few heat cycles and will I even be able to bring them back up to heat in the B group? Then I'm suck buying brand new tires. I've only signed up for one track day for a reason. As much as I love the track I don't really have the time this summer as I am still in school to do more than one track day. I'm just trying to go out there, get a quick fix, learn about my new bike, have fun and be safe by "taking it to the track." Not set land speed records or try to get into hardcore trackdays/racing. That will all come in good time. So I guess my real question is will the road be ok with this or will the throw me if i try to push it past 20 degrees.

vananator · 04-16-2009, 05:47 AM

I think they said the roads will work fine. VAN

usmcgunnerm4 · 04-16-2009, 06:26 AM

Roads should be fine. Unless you are in the "Holy Smokes" group, at which point you wouldn't be worried about whether or not the tires will be good enough. You would already know.
Roads are a respectable tire. A little slower tip-in than a power, and not quite as "sticky", but respectable nonetheless.. I had them on my CBR for awhile and never was able to take them to their absolute limit.

dwschultzy · 04-16-2009, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Alpine 318is

So I guess my real question is will the road be ok with this or will the throw me if i try to push it past 20 degrees.

dude.....are you not reading what has been said?

if not....look over it again.......

Originally Posted by tunus

You should be fine with the Pilot Roads. I did a track day on Dunlop D207s which are comparable (and maybe worse) street tires and was fine in the B Group.

Originally Posted by Damon Mon Wai

Unless you are trying to set a new track record then I think you should be fine on the tires you have now.

Originally Posted by fastfoodfred

The Pilot roads will get in their "zone" better in the slower group speeds.

Originally Posted by Alanjtc73n

Brand new Pilot Roads should have more grip than a set of take-offs that have gone through a bunch of heat cycles

Seriously, you'll be fine. I took an Aprilia Futura out at Putnam Park in Indiana for a demo ride and the pilot roads were great. Easily decked out the pegs and they had plenty more grip.

i am pretty sure your question has been answered multiple times

brianm · 04-16-2009, 09:33 AM

Not to keep beating a dead horse, but...

I've ridden Power Roads on the track in advanced group. There is a decided difference between them and the Pilot Powers, but you won't get there until you're running mid advanced pace. The tire didn't begin to slide until about a 1:32 at PR. That should give you some perspective. And at that it was someone elses zx10 and the tire pressure was way too high!

I hope that gives you some confidence about running a track day on them.

vagrant · 04-16-2009, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by brianm

...but you won't get there until you're running mid advanced pace. The tire didn't begin to slide until about a 1:32 at PR.....

srsly Brian?

Maybe for you...those of us with less-than-mad-skillz might have varying experiences due to less "smoothness". My biggest issues last year with 2ct's was under hard braking on entrance and hard acceleration on exit after about 5-6 laps. Of course, if I could carry corner speed like you, then I wouldn't need as hard acceleration I suppose (and I wouldnt be braking as hard maybe)....but still...

[EDIT: Im sure you trail brake much harder than me]

Not saying this dude wouldnt be fine, just surprised at the "mid advanced" and "1:32 @ PR" comments is all...

MikeM · 04-16-2009, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by vagrant

srsly Brian?

Maybe for you...those of us with less-than-mad-skillz might have varying experiences due to less "smoothness". My biggest issues last year with 2ct's was under hard braking on entrance and hard acceleration on exit after about 5-6 laps. Of course, if I could carry corner speed like you, then I wouldn't need as hard acceleration I suppose (and I wouldnt be braking as hard maybe)....but still...

[EDIT: Im sure you trail brake much harder than me]

Not saying this dude wouldnt be fine, just surprised at the "mid advanced" and "1:32 @ PR" comments is all...

You would be amazed what "street tires" will do. I would venture to say that 95% of the crashes that people blame on tires was not the tires fault at all......

vagrant · 04-16-2009, 10:22 AM

Don't disagree at all. I'm sure the Roads *could* do 1:32s, given a good rider on the bike. Just personally wouldnt use them when trying to get to 1:32s if you know what I mean.

ninjaofdoom · 04-16-2009, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Alpine 318is

I agree I'm not very fast at all. 1:55 at PR with my FZR, but I also dont want to go out there on bad equipment. I dont wanna bring a knife to a gun fight.

Then you are fine. Pilot Roads are better than the Shite Bridgestone BTo14s that came on my ZX14, and i was doing 1:52s at PR last year on a Nesba day....

If my 14 can damn near drag fairing on stock rubber, your Roads will hold you fine

eric · 04-16-2009, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Alpine 318is

Explain

Edit: Not trying to be rude, just trying to learn.

As has been mentioned in many threads and other replies here above mine... Track tires have a specific temperature range they are designed to work best in. If you go out in B, you will never, ever get the tires up to proper temp unless it's about 110 degrees out, and even then you probably won't do it. 'Sport' tires like pilot powers have a much wider temp range. On a warm day, you can literally go out and drag knee on the first corner you hit no problem (if you don't ride like a retard.) Pilot roads are designed to operate in mostly the same temperature range although probably don't handle warmer temps (faster riding) quite as well.

People often still don't realize that street tires are BETTER (offer more grip) than track specific tires at a slower pace. Although it's an in-exact science, IMO, 1:40s or so are the point at which race tires and street tires offer similar grip levels. Faster then that you are starting to get track tires warm enough, slower than that, you're not and should stick with street tires. *again, this is my opinion, the exact lap times depends on the bike, the rider, the day, etc.

Not only will pilot roads be fine for you but you are actually going to get MORE grip then you would with track specific tires.

brianm · 04-16-2009, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by eric

People often still don't realize that street tires are BETTER (offer more grip) than track specific tires at a slower pace. ...1:40s or so are the point at which race tires and street tires offer similar grip levels. Faster then that you are starting to get track tires warm enough, slower than that, you're not and should stick with street tires.

I agree.

And this reminds me of a story... Back in the day when MikeM was trying to ride street and track he had a gsxr750. We were just running trackdays at the time, and he didn't want to change tires, so he left slicks on it and just rode them on the street. He was invited to go ride with a group of guys from church, so he took off most of the tape covering his lights and mirrors (making sure to leave numbers on the bike...you know, because numbers are cool). Anyway, these guys wanted to keep the pace around the speed limit, and MikeM quickly got bored. :( So he started goofing around a little, and he found that the slicks offered almost no grip on the street, because they were perpetually cold! So of course he practiced leaving darkies everywhere and backing it in with the rear brake... He said that every time he got on the gas the rear tire would brake loose. So the moral of the story is...um, always...no. Never ride race tires on the street. And probably something about don't spend the extra $$ on race tires until you need them. Yeah, that sounds good.

Buick_65 · 04-16-2009, 12:19 PM

So what are you saying guys? Should he run the roads or get some take offs....

brianm · 04-16-2009, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Buick_65

So what are you saying guys? Should he run the roads or get some take offs....

run the roads.

bloodtypezx10r · 04-16-2009, 12:25 PM

A friend of mine took his Kaw Concours to a track day at Spokane a few years ago-Brian may remember. With cruise tires he did great. On that bike with those tires he impressed a few Cr's. You will have no troubles in B group. Just check your head and ride your own bike.

brianm · 04-16-2009, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by bloodtypezx10r

A friend of mine took his Kaw Concours to a track day at Spokane a few years ago-Brian may remember. With cruise tires he did great. On that bike with those tires he impressed a few Cr's. You will have no troubles in B group. Just check your head and ride your own bike.

I remember that. He kept dragging this pegs while he was passing sport bikes on the outside... It was so cool!

bloodtypezx10r · 04-16-2009, 12:43 PM

And just a note--if Brian is your CR keep both of your hands on the bars through turn 9. It is habit forming and I use it when I get tensed up in a turn-dragging the left hand.

GixxerPete · 04-16-2009, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by mikem

you would be amazed what "street tires" will do. I would venture to say that 95% of the crashes that people blame on tires was not the tires fault at all......

qft!

NoQuarter#121 · 04-16-2009, 06:08 PM

Dude, flogging the dead horse....

Run the Roads!

Get Rick at SB to tell you what pressures to run for the conditions of the day, mabye set your sag and have a great time!

You'll be fine!

Then when the roads are cooked you can think about more aggressive rubber.

Alpine 318is · 04-16-2009, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by dwschultzy

dude.....are you not reading what has been said?
if not....look over it again.......
i am pretty sure your question has been answered multiple times

I'm reading the thread man. I also have another thread going as well. I just want to get all the input I can handle for my education so I feel confident out there and not think that I'm making a dangerous and costly mistake.

DJ Nathan V · 04-21-2009, 12:05 PM

So how would the Roads compare to the Road 2/2CT for the track?

Cleophus James · 07-01-2009, 02:16 PM

but what about take-offs? how are they compared to the roads? I'm worried, too.

rowlex · 07-01-2009, 03:01 PM

i just did a trackday on battlax bt015's. was running 2min laptimes, never once worried about the tires.

theJrod · 07-01-2009, 04:05 PM

I've done several trackdays on Avon Distanzias (dual sport tires).

Only had one crash on them ever.

K2TheM · 07-01-2009, 04:17 PM

dood I did just fine at my track day on Avon Roadraiders...

then again... there's a big difference between my bike and yours.

james1300 · 07-01-2009, 04:36 PM

You CAN do it! I did Two Track days, back to back. In JULY at Spokane Raceway Park.
On a FJR1300, with Pilot Roads. They worked fine for that bike. Then I rode them for a total of 9K plus miles. Great tires.

Alpine 318is · 07-01-2009, 05:00 PM

Holy thread revival. Did the track day. 4 sessions of dry and then it started raining so it didnt really matter.


04-15-2009, 08:46 PM	#2
Jet City Racer Streetfighter Joined: Jan 2009 From: Federal Way I Ride: 2 wheeled ones	Check the local forums or the Wera board and get some takeoffs if you want more bite. TBH~ The Roads should be more than OK in the slower groups. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


04-15-2009, 08:57 PM	#4
Jet City Racer Streetfighter Joined: Jan 2009 From: Federal Way I Ride: 2 wheeled ones	You should be able to get decent take offs for $100 __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


04-15-2009, 09:05 PM	#5
eric Slow Eric Joined: Mar 2006 From: Seattle Blog Entries: 6 I Ride: Street: Bike #1 Track: Bike #2	If you're in B, I suspect you'll get more grip from Pilot Roads than take offs... __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


04-15-2009, 09:32 PM	#7
Alanjtc73n Endorsed Joined: Mar 2007 From: Redmond, WA I Ride: 03 ZX636, 90 FZR400, 97, RS125, 98 RS125, Z50!	Brand new Pilot Roads should have more grip than a set of take-offs that have gone through a bunch of heat cycles. For a hundred bucks you'll probably get some hard, blued tires that might have lots of tread but no grip. I think you'll be fine with the pilot roads. Especially if you're going to be in the B group. Plus you get rid of the chicken strips on some road tires! What Eric means is that race tires require heat for them to develop consistent grip. If you're not pushing it hard, you won't get them heated up to the proper temperature. And the fact that heat cycled tires become harder as they lose their oils (that blue sheen). As you start to feel the difference between tire types you'll find that street tires have more initial grip while race tires have more grip after proper heating. When I first got on the track I always rode my street bike with street tires. When I finally got a race bike and threw on a proper set of race hoops, I quickly found the need for heat. Yes...I managed to crash on the warm up lap due to cold race tires. Seriously, you'll be fine. I took an Aprilia Futura out at Putnam Park in Indiana for a demo ride and the pilot roads were great. Easily decked out the pegs and they had plenty more grip. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by Alanjtc73n; 04-15-2009 at 09:37 PM..


04-16-2009, 02:17 AM	#10
tunus Zone Head Joined: Jan 2007 From: Rotterdam, Holland/Bellevue, WA I Ride: '06 NINJA 636(sold), '06 ZZR 600(sold), '07 R6 (sold), '06 Katana (sold)	You should be fine with the Pilot Roads. I did a track day on Dunlop D207s which are comparable (and maybe worse) street tires and was fine in the B Group. I did crash that day which I blame entirely on the tires but it was while I was getting evaluated for the I group and chasing a CR. Up until that point they held up pretty well. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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04-15-2009, 08:35 PM	#1
Alpine 318is Zone Head Joined: Jan 2007 From: Bellevue, Washington I Ride: 2003 Suzuki GSX-R 600 Alstare	How dumb would it be to do a track day on Pilot Roads Little background on me and my track experience. I did 2 nesba days back in Seattle Washington on a 1991 FZR 600 both in the B group. I since have moved to Philly for school and have purchased a a 2003 Suzuki GSX-R 600 and signed up for NJMP on May 15th. Here is the kicker. The Gixxer has pretty much brand new pilot roads on them. Now I would prefer to be out on the track with a more race oriented tire like a diablo or a power or a dunlop qualifier but i cant justify dropping $400 + for tires and install. I'm not trying to go out there and rip out like Valentino Rossi at Mugello but Im also trying to have a good time without having poor tires slow me down. Any advice would be great. Or any questions about my ridding ability and experience feel free to ask. Thanks guys, Seppi __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


04-16-2009, 05:33 AM	#12
Alpine 318is Zone Head Joined: Jan 2007 From: Bellevue, Washington I Ride: 2003 Suzuki GSX-R 600 Alstare	What I understand about race takeoffs is they have already been through a few heat cycles and will I even be able to bring them back up to heat in the B group? Then I'm suck buying brand new tires. I've only signed up for one track day for a reason. As much as I love the track I don't really have the time this summer as I am still in school to do more than one track day. I'm just trying to go out there, get a quick fix, learn about my new bike, have fun and be safe by "taking it to the track." Not set land speed records or try to get into hardcore trackdays/racing. That will all come in good time. So I guess my real question is will the road be ok with this or will the throw me if i try to push it past 20 degrees. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


04-16-2009, 05:47 AM	#13
vananator Endorsed Joined: Jun 2006 From: washougal,wa-down by the river I Ride: 2007 APE RSVR,2007 mvf4 1000r	I think they said the roads will work fine. VAN __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


04-16-2009, 06:26 AM	#14
usmcgunnerm4 Washington (VA) Joined: Dec 2008 From: Spokane Valley, WA I Ride: a Triumph, and whatever else they'll let me test ride.	Roads should be fine. Unless you are in the "Holy Smokes" group, at which point you wouldn't be worried about whether or not the tires will be good enough. You would already know. Roads are a respectable tire. A little slower tip-in than a power, and not quite as "sticky", but respectable nonetheless.. I had them on my CBR for awhile and never was able to take them to their absolute limit. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


04-16-2009, 09:33 AM	#16
brianm Pit Crew Joined: Jan 2008 From: Seattle, wa	Not to keep beating a dead horse, but... I've ridden Power Roads on the track in advanced group. There is a decided difference between them and the Pilot Powers, but you won't get there until you're running mid advanced pace. The tire didn't begin to slide until about a 1:32 at PR. That should give you some perspective. And at that it was someone elses zx10 and the tire pressure was way too high! I hope that gives you some confidence about running a track day on them. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


04-16-2009, 10:22 AM	#19
vagrant Superbiker Joined: Mar 2008 From: Seattle, WA	Don't disagree at all. I'm sure the Roads could do 1:32s, given a good rider on the bike. Just personally wouldnt use them when trying to get to 1:32s if you know what I mean. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


04-16-2009, 12:19 PM	#23
Buick_65 Pit Crew Joined: Mar 2008 From: Poulsbo, WA I Ride: Honda, or Suzuki, or Yamaha	So what are you saying guys? Should he run the roads or get some take offs.... __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


04-16-2009, 12:25 PM	#25
bloodtypezx10r Training Wheels Joined: Aug 2008 From: BAYVIEW, ID I Ride: 06 KAWASAKI ZX10R	A friend of mine took his Kaw Concours to a track day at Spokane a few years ago-Brian may remember. With cruise tires he did great. On that bike with those tires he impressed a few Cr's. You will have no troubles in B group. Just check your head and ride your own bike. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


04-16-2009, 12:43 PM	#27
bloodtypezx10r Training Wheels Joined: Aug 2008 From: BAYVIEW, ID I Ride: 06 KAWASAKI ZX10R	And just a note--if Brian is your CR keep both of your hands on the bars through turn 9. It is habit forming and I use it when I get tensed up in a turn-dragging the left hand. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


04-16-2009, 06:08 PM	#29
NoQuarter#121 Zone Head Joined: Sep 2007 From: 2nd star to the right and straight on 'til morning I Ride: on ice at 15F below zero	Dude, flogging the dead horse.... Run the Roads! Get Rick at SB to tell you what pressures to run for the conditions of the day, mabye set your sag and have a great time! You'll be fine! Then when the roads are cooked you can think about more aggressive rubber. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


04-21-2009, 12:05 PM	#31
DJ Nathan V Retired Joined: Jun 2007 From: Auburn, WA Blog Entries: 14 I Ride: 2008 Yamaha YZF-R6XS & CBR600 F2	So how would the Roads compare to the Road 2/2CT for the track? __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-01-2009, 02:16 PM	#32
Cleophus James Endorsed Joined: May 2008 From: Irkutsk, USSR I Ride: Your sister	but what about take-offs? how are they compared to the roads? I'm worried, too. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-01-2009, 03:01 PM	#33
rowlex MotoGP Contender Joined: Apr 2006 From: everett I Ride: 01 929RR	i just did a trackday on battlax bt015's. was running 2min laptimes, never once worried about the tires. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-01-2009, 04:05 PM	#34
theJrod Moderator Joined: Feb 2006 From: Marysville, WA I Ride: Scooty Puff Sr: The Doom-Bringer!	I've done several trackdays on Avon Distanzias (dual sport tires). Only had one crash on them ever. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-01-2009, 04:17 PM	#35
K2TheM Superbiker Joined: Apr 2006 From: Vantucky, WA I Ride: '84 VF 700F Interceptor	dood I did just fine at my track day on Avon Roadraiders... then again... there's a big difference between my bike and yours. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-01-2009, 04:36 PM	#36
james1300 Track School Dazed Joined: Oct 2005 From: CENTRAL I Ride: When I can	You CAN do it! I did Two Track days, back to back. In JULY at Spokane Raceway Park. On a FJR1300, with Pilot Roads. They worked fine for that bike. Then I rode them for a total of 9K plus miles. Great tires. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-01-2009, 05:00 PM	#37
Alpine 318is Zone Head Joined: Jan 2007 From: Bellevue, Washington I Ride: 2003 Suzuki GSX-R 600 Alstare	Holy thread revival. Did the track day. 4 sessions of dry and then it started raining so it didnt really matter. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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