MikeyMotard

I'm seriously looking at the next NESBA dates for ORP in Aug and would like to know who you all would recomend I talk to about details. I would like to prep the bike (KTM 950 SM) for the advanced group even though it's my first track day in case they are willing to bump me. I read the NESBA regs but does the track have any further requirements? It will likely be pretty damn hot out there so I'd like input on tire selection as well. I love the Pirelli Scorpion Syncs for the street but I think they would get cooked on the track. I have plenty of time and I hate being unprepared but I know that if I can get out there I'll have a great time no matter what group I'm riding with. I'll listen to any and all advise, hints, suggestions but I'm serious about my riding and would really like to know who has that track nailed.

If you volunteer yourself as the master, you will automatically be disqualified...

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OOk

Wow, take a deep breath, stop over thinking it and just focus on having fun! Being as there hasn't been a race there's currently no lap record holder, so there's no true qualified "track master". But being this is your first trackday why do you even need the "master"? An expert rider that's been there a few times is all you really need (and probably all you're going to find). And there's honestly only so much information that a new rider can absorb and put into practice the first time around.
I guaranty you will have a 1000% good time if you just show up and focus on having fun! Self improvement is a great goal, we all want to go faster, but it's your first trackday!! Ease off yourself a bit!

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odin544

So let me get this straight. It's your first track day and you think your getting bumped to the "fast group"? hehe ok.

Fast on the street is like slow on the track. I hope you HONESTLY evaluate your riding abilities before you try jumping out in the "fast group" None the less. Dont stress. And go have some fun. Thats all track days are about.

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MikeyMotard

I can see now where this is going....

"The Track Master" was intended to be a little tongue-in-cheek but you have to understand how I think for this post to make good sense. I know I'll have a good time no matter what but I'd like to maximize the time and energy I will have there and it seems to me this would be a good place to look for a little input from someone who has demonstrated skills and spent some quality time with this particular track.

I have also been waiting for close to thirty years to get out on a track on two wheels..... I may be new to the track but I'm not new to riding (on the street for 22 years) or racing (motocross and rally) and it's not just a cute little hobby of mine. I've simply been a little busy with the family and now it's dad's turn to do his thing again.

I can understand and appreciate your replies and I do have a tendency to "over think" things......but then again, I'm rarely caught off guard by surprises either....

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tophyr

Riding skill aside, even expert racers on motards stay in the I group at max. The closing speeds between a 600 or 1000cc sportbike and a motard are extremely dangerous otherwise.

(I know someone's gonna pop in here and say that it's impossible for 600cc+ sportbikes to stretch their legs and that it's a motard course - I went and compared maps, and ORP is no tighter than Las Vegas Motor Speedway's road course. Sure, it's tighter than PR, but just gear down )

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tophyr

In terms of a "track master", just find one of the NESBA CR's who've been there before (or one of the MacConaghys, regardless of whether they've been there before or not ).

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MikeyMotard

We'll see.....

Come on guys. You have all had those dreams that you show up for your first day at the new job and you forgot the one most important thing.

Shall I just pull the thread so you stop flaming me???

I'm not put out by the razzing but shit, I just got on the boards this week. I thought you were supposed to be gentle to the virgins?!?!

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tophyr

Prep for the A group involves everything required for B and I (lights + mirrors, etc), as well as replacing your coolant with water and then safety-wiring your oil drain bolt, oil fill cap and oil filter.

Those are the minimums by the published NESBA manual.. however if you're gonna start wiring, it's not a bad idea to do also your radiator cap, brake caliper mounting bolts (front and rear), axles and/or axle nuts, and axle pinch bolts.

One of the NESBA minions will be in shortly enough tomorrow to explain more how they do things... that should be pretty much it but I'm not actually one of 'em, I'm an instructor for Adrenaline Freaks which has similar but not necessarily the same rules.

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MikeyMotard

HEY!!! Look at that....Real honest help!!

Thanks Chris

I hope you guys are enjoying this!

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the chemist

A few things...

Get your suspension set up by Barry with GP Suspension North. It's a good thing to do for any trackday...but even more important at ORP with all the off camber/elevation changes/everything. No, you dont need full ohlins or anything, but have him at least set it to your weight.

Don't worry about tires too much. Anything good on the street will do for now.

Honestly, don't plan on being fast. It'll kill your buzz when you realize you're not. Sign up for Beginner and let Brian know if you think you're a good enough rider to bump. Bumping isn't just about being fast. Its about being smooth, consistent, and predictable. If you're riding slow in I someone can go around you. If you're swooping everywhere they cannot. Start in B and have fun. If you're riding well enough for I, bump. If not, dont crash trying to keep up with faster people.

A few tips:

You can carry a lot more speed than you think you can, especially in the half pipe.

If you're planning on riding A, or even I, make sure you have balls for the blind kinks on the 'back straight' running CCW. If you dont, pretend you do and at least get on the gas after the apex. Nothing more of an "oh shit!!!!" moment when you come around the corner to find someone putting along. (Had a few of those with both Cascade and 2-Fast) I believe this is what also caused the air lift on the front straight, right after you crest that hill going CW.

There are a few bumps, but nothing like Pacific. One that needs to be pointed out is the inside seam in the half pipe. Two guys went down at the Cascade day because someone hit it and freaked out.


Go have fun. Don't worry about anything else for now. Let the first day be a time for you to get used to the track, its totally different than the street. Find out how things run and what to expect. On your second track day work on something like corner entry etc.

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Mic

Nobody is flaming you, they are simply saying "Leave your ego at the door".

Your Ego is the #1 thing that will get you injured at the track. Any Veteran Track Rider knows that, and even the "Master" you are looking for, would look at this post, shake his head, and say the exact same thing.

I rode for 22 years before setting foot on a Road Race Track. I grew up on bikes since I was 5, and raced Motorcross. Guess what? It's not Motorcross, It's not rally, and nobody here gives 2 shits about it.

Again, first thing first... Ego? At the door.

Once that is out of the way, people are a lot more open to helping you out. Don't come in here talking about how great you are (nobody cares, even if you are the next greatest thing to Road Racing), a person isn't going to waste their time, if they don't think they have your full undivided attention, as they realize it's a dangerous sport, but damn, it's so damned fun!

Here's the NESBA Riders Manual. It will outline everything you need to know and give you an idea of how the day is ran: http://www.nesba.com/Info/Downloads/manual.pdf

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MikeyMotard

Chemist, that's what I was looking for here. I will give Berry a call. Your track pointers are very helpful. BTW, I do plan on doing both days that weekend so I will have time to take it slow and steady. I'm very methodical about everything I do, so this shouldn't be a problem.

Mic, I do appreciate the EGO speech and I'm sorry if I came across as arrogant. I take everything said very seriously and if anything I would be considered intense rather than careless when it comes to instruction/advise. I would use the word "professional" rather than arrogant and "confidence" rather than EGO but like everything else, it's all about perceptions. I was only stating the motocross and rally experience to say that I'm not new to the racing environment or all the ego and nervousness swirling around performance based sports. As males we are typically DRIVEN to demonstrate prowess so I can't say I'm immune to that trap....

If any of you happen to see me riding with my little head....Street or track, PLEASE speak up.

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PeteN95

Bring lots of water/drinks, snacks, a chair, shade, race stand, and dry/clean clothes. I would seriously consider PR or PIR instead of ORP as a first track day. ORP is very complex with lots of blind apexs, off camper, multi apex turns, elevation change, etc., etc. I really think you would learn more about simply going fast through basic corners and technique on a less complicated course. I also think you would get up to speed much faster. But if your set on ORP, go for it. It is a very cool course. The one thing I would stress to concentrate on is be Smooooth, no sudden inputs of steering, throttle, or brake. Have fun!

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theJrod

I'll be control riding for Nesba on the 2nd (can't make the 1st).

Requirements for Advanced (above and beyond all standard requirements):
Safety wire the oil drain plug, oil fill cap & oil filter.
Drain all coolant and replace with straight water, or Water Wetter (or similar non-glycol coolant).
It's also a good idea to do the items Tophyr mentioned, but they aren't required.

The Scorpion Syncs will be OK, but you could definitely do better. With the heat expected in August down there, some race DOT tires might be a good choice. Otherwise, I'd pick a good set of high performance street tires, like the Corsa IIIs, Qualifiers, etc.

Typically motards (of any displacement) are not allowed in the A group because closing speeds on the straights are far too great, and the slower bikes are a hazard. Even with the shorter straights at ORP, the issue still remains. It's an ideal 600SS track, but it's tight enough to be a blast on the motards too.

That said, there has never to my knowledge been someone who, on their first trackday, been bumped up to the A group. It just doesn't happen. You will be humbled by the sheer speed of people in the B and I groups, let alone A.

Regardless, we will evaluate your skills throughout the day and we will place you in the approprate group (contingent on space). Grab one of us CRs, and we'll give you some 1 on 1 instruction and help out however we can. You WILL be faster by the time you leave. Maybe I'll bring out my DRZ-SM and show you how fast 35hp can go.

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OOk

There are 3 "straights" at ORP where a 600 clearly eats smaller (250/450) motards. Front straight and the two back straights. I never really tangled with an SM on the curvy bits except when I stuffed Meric_57 (on his husky) into turn 4. heehee. Ok, not really a stuff. (oh and it'll be in the vid)

Sorry, I did not intend to come across as flaming you. It was just intended as some frank toughish love as I perceived your approach to your first trackday as a bit TOO rigid. One thing that you don't understand yet is that if you forget something, there is ALWAYS someone there to lend you what you need or even lend you a hand. If you forget something, it WON'T ruin your trackday (unless it's your bike key).
I totally understand wanting to be prepared, but keep in mind you are not showing up to the first day of a new job, you are showing up at a "theme park". There's no "failing" other than crashing. And there's no trophies for winning. Winning is equated to how much fun you have. I think that's all I was trying to say.
I also didn't give any advice as I thought that would then generate the presumption that I'm an expert.

I will have my ORP documentary video completed before your first trackday. I think that might help you out a lot since you have a HUGE interest in what ORP is really like. Its about 20 minutes long and covers a number of things from: riders meeting, track ride around, one full uncut lap CLOCKWISE/ one full uncut lap COUNTER clockwise, as well as a bunch of us gabbing about how much fun we're all having. I think it could be very useful for people in your position who are very curious about the ORP experience (which is honestly NO different than any other trackday experience). I hope to post the video in the next week. Jesus, I just want the damn thing done!!!!

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MikeyMotard

Thanks Pete, I had been thinking about turning it into a three day event since it looks like NESBA is doing a Fri at PIR. I have spent some time on that track on 4 wheels and feel pretty good about starting there BUT I felt the speed issue would be a bigger deal there. As it's currently geared the KTM shows an indicated 142 and then the laws of aerodynamics say "enough"! That puts me in the way of a LOT of bikes (Even in the B & I groups) in two places at PIR. I have heard what a blast ORP is and felt that the layout gave me some help with the speed issue. If I do go to ORP and start in the B class, like Jared said....They'll be watching and can move me as needed.

Jared, I look forward to the personal input and objective observation from all of the CR's and will seek you out for a personal thank you. What is your opinion on Pete's suggestion? One day at PIR or two at ORP....? Or both in one speedfest that might be too much for me...Sounds like the perfect weekend to me but I don't want to over do it.

OOk, that's much better! I can stop pouting now. I am serious and intense and have high expectations for myself (in ALL aspects of life) but I also know how to have a good time and roll with the punches.

Seriously I think you will really like riding with the open class motards. The fact that I can ride hard on a twisty bumpy road, like most real roads in the NW (or even gravel at times) and enjoy a track day on the same damn bike is too much. It's not a purpose built road racer but I think it could hold it's own in the right hands and if them ain't mine, I'll hang out with the I group and have a good time.
I look forward to the ORP Video with much anticipation!

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PeteN95

I really don't consider a 950cc V-twin a Motard, any more than my SV1000 even though it has dirt bike bars. But if you can launch doubles and flat track it pretty well, maybe? I really wouldn't be concerned with your top speed at PIR either. I promise that you will have at least 10mph on SV 650s and the fast guys on an SV will leave you for dead your first time out anyway. Top speed isn't that big a part of overall laptimes, you only reach it for a very short time once a lap.

My bike has 6 gears, but I never got out of 4th gear at ORP. There are 3 straights, but unless you get a great drive and can brake late, and trail brake, a well riden 450 Motard may beat you. PIR is just a much easier track to learn than ORP, especially CCW. And if you're already familiar with the layout, you can concentrate on learning to go faster on your bike right away.

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theJrod

Honestly, track time is track time. You'll learn bucketloads on any track.
If ORP tickles your fancy, then do it. I think your bike would be well suited to that course. You'll get the most bang for your buck doing the 1st/2nd weekend, since half of the first day is spent just learning which way the track goes (this goes for any track). Doing Portland on the 29th might be overkill. Whatever you decide, I'm sure you'll have fun. See you there.

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the chemist

Honestly, two things....

A lot of 600's top out at around 155ish, while liter bikes top out in the 170s...its really not a big deal. And, some people in B dont ride fully tapped. So you figure the closing speed is only gonna be about 10mph to a 600. Like I said before, speed isn't a big deal as long as you can hold your line. There are people out on a SV/DRZ/250 etc. so dont worry. If you hold your line and someone wants to pass, they'll do it safely. I can honestly say every time I pass someone I make sure to leave plenty of room...unless they're sweeping like crazy. Then I just get around them whether it cuts their nose off or not.

FYI, my gearing on my 636 is JACKED (finally got it figured out) and I was bouncing off the rev limiter halfway down the straight at PIR, and 3/4 of the way at Pacific. Never had a problem, even running decent I times (except when Nico or Darryl was riding Moacha's CBR and sucked my paint off)


No, I don't claim to be an 'expert' or fast. But ask BrianM or d-rail....all I do in the pits is ask the fast guys questions.

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manicmike

After every frickin' session.

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Trojan

He's on a 950SM. That will be no problem around ORP and probably a better bike and faster bike in the right hands around there than any 600/750/1000. It's not a 450SM, it's a freaking twin with about 90HP. Good call in my book.

As far as the tires, dump the Sync's and get a set of Supercorsa's or CorsaIII's. You'll have much more confidence with these.

You'll have fun, probably want to stay in the intermediate group, with your limited track experience, so don't bother doing all the race prep stuff unless you really, really want to.

Cheers

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young lion

2 riders in my group were bumped from "B" to "A" on our first track day ever at Pacific Raceways 2 years ago. By the end of the day both were doing 1:38's if I remember correctly. Both were riding liter bikes though which in my opinion gives riders at Pacific a 1.5-2 second advantage over 600's/950SM's!

I was bumped to "I" group after 3 sessions in "B" and I believe I was doing 1:44's after my first day - not "A" class times by any means...

Then again, we're all Canadian so general rules of slowness generally don't apply to us - ask Oli!

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MikeyMotard

OK guys, I really appreciate all the POSITIVE input. The general consensus is to not worry about the A group prep 'cus it's unlikely that I'll get to that pace in two days. Point taken!

I will likely have the Corsa III's on the bike and will have GP Suspension go through the suspension set up with me. I will also be looking at OOk's video if/when it gets done so I have a better idea how the track is laid out and glean as many nuggets of wisdom as I can retain.

Over all, I will be focused on having a great time and letting the bike do it's thing while I hang on for dear life....Kidding! See y'all there

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Hypnotiq

Just so there's no confusion. No motards in A group. Period.

Have fun out there!

-Nico

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Lee650

Is that just a NESBA thing because I've seen Motards at ORP in the A group with Cascade and I think 2Fast had some also?

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Hypnotiq

Yes, NESBA policy.

-Nico

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the chemist

First track day ever? Or first trackday ever at Pacific?

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young lion

First track days EVER...

We're all experienced riders and I think for some people they just learn roads or tracks faster than others. I'm a gradual learner for sure whereas these guys just picked it up like Spies!!!

Here's Glenn on his ZX10 that day...


By younglion at 2009-07-07

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MikeyMotard

[QUOTE=Hypnotiq;1770993]Just so there's no confusion. No motards in A group. Period.

I suppose I will be seeing "No Motards" signs on the restrooms and water fountains as well?!?! I thought we were the open minded and enlightened ones here in the north....

I could think of two reasons for this policy other than the closing speed issue addressed earlier, such as those stickie-outie handle bars and the inside leg out where it might get run over... but I'd like to know specifically what the policy is based on. Is the group placement based on lap times and rider proficiency or is there some other prejudice? I'm calling Art Bell 'cus I smell a conspiracy!

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Trojan

[QUOTE=MikeyMotard;1772100] NESBA is stuck up and stuck in the 80's...

Come to PSSR, we'll take you and you'll have a blast. It's not about racing, it's about riding and learning skills. We've had people on GS's out there. If they can make it go around in a decent time and not be glacial, keep on truckin' mama.

You'd have no problem with us at PSSR. We love KTM's....see

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Hypnotiq

Mark, there's no need for the attitude.

Riding groups are not based on specific tracks. They are based on given criteria. The closing speeds in the A(dvanced) group on motards is ridiculous on *most* tracks.

We're going to say a rider is in A at this track but I at that b/c that track happens to be slow enough for a good motard rider to get into A times. There are plenty of riders we give an I sticker to for their motard and an A sticker for their race bike or street bike that are riding good, clean lines and speeds for the A group.

You can easily go fast in the I group following the rules of that group. People should be less concerned if they have an B, I, or A sticker on their bike and concentrate more on having fun. *shrug*

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tophyr

Bookmark this post - Nico and I agree Worrying about what group you're in and what times you're running really only slows your progress down and, in my experience, detracts from the day.

With the motards specifically, it really is just a power/top speed issue. Motards can carry just as much or more cornerspeed and can brake just as late, but are vastly limited in their top speed (even the 90hp ones - they are geared very differently than a sportbike).

Lemme tell you, it's scary enough for me (and I can only imagine for the other guy) when I blow past an SV with a 30-40mph difference down the front straight. At 60-80mph the closing speeds become ridiculous - if a motard rider is at Start/Finish (at Pacific) and a fast 600 or a 1000 rider enters the Chute, the sportbike will clear Turn 1 before the motard does.

Control riders don't look for outright speed when selecting groups and bumping people. Trying to go fast can actually hold you back: We look for consistency, smoothness, and how comfortable you are.

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Trojan

That prior post wasn't attitude...this one is....

Do you allow SV650's in A group? serious question, because I don't know.

If you do, then allowing a 950 KTM out there would also seem very reasonable, given the power and torque numbers of that bike. The rider is a different story. So you wouldn't let Danny Eslick out in A group with this KTM?

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MikeM

I find this very interesting that you are so concerned with which class he is going to be able to ride in and he hasn't even done his first trackday.

If he is actually as fast as he thinks he is going to be and is smooth and consistent there won't be any problem putting him advanced.

For the record, yes I would let Danny Eslick out in A on just about anything he wanted to ride. But that's because I know he isn't going to be in the way on the straight parts of the track and is an extremely skilled rider. Its not his first time out on a race track.

Also, there are some SV 650's in the A group. They are held to the same set of rules and guidlines as everybody else.

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MikeM

[QUOTE=MikeyMotard;1772100] There is no conspiracy. It has nothing to do with your "stickie-outie handle bars" or your inside leg sticking out which it shouldn't be. It is solely becuase we don't feel its safe having people who are going as fast as 25's on the same track as people doing 40's.

Its like catching up to something stuck in first gear on the straights and it could be a very bad situation.

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Trojan

I'm not concerned about what class he's in and even said so earlier, BUT Nico is concerned what type of bike he rides, saying emphatically that NO motoards in A group. That statement I think is false and you now have said so yourself. That is/was my point all along. It has nothing to do about the bike, but rather who the rider is and how they get around the track. An SV650 with 75hp in the hands of a good competent rider can run in A group so why the blatant statement that a big twin motard can't...?

Later

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MikeM

This rule is geard more towards the 450 motards. The big twins aren't really in the same category. It is much easier as far as running the a trackday to say no motards in A and then make exceptions rather than the opposite.

If anybody has any further questions on this matter please feel free to email me.

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vagrant

Hey Mikey, with all this talk I would really be interested in seeing you ride. You should come out to PR this weekend 7/11 or 7/12. Should be plenty of space.

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stevieb

Damn Mike, I thinks you just got called out!

noobs

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stevieb

Doh, maybe I'm the noob. I just realized the original posters name is Mikey.

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