PNW Riders

galenernest · 07-15-2009, 09:40 PM

Me and my best buddy are thinking of combining our resources and going in on a track bike together. I've heard people say to start on a slower bike, because you'll never get fast if you start out on an already fast bike. So I'm thinking an oldish (late 90's to early 00's) 600. Maybe something like a 600 F3. Us sharing a bike would be perfect because we're both the same size and weight.

Our concept is pretty simple. When one of us is riding at the track day, the other is the pit crew. But I had another thought; is it possible to run the same track day at the same time, with one of us in C group and one in B group, sharing the same bike? I've also heard of half-days. So one of us could do the morning session, and the other could do the afternoon session. Or maybe we'll just keep it to separate days to make things simpler?

Anyone else ever do something like this? (I know Brian M did and that's where I got the idea from).

odin544 · 07-15-2009, 09:51 PM

Hmmm... I see this going like a couple of 6 y/o boys playing with the coolest toy.

"okay its my turn"

"no I want one more turn"

"no its my turn, Thats not fair"

HAHA I'd say stick to one rider one day. But I dont see why you couldnt have one rider in C and one in B if one of you thinks your ready for B group.

motostunter · 07-15-2009, 09:59 PM

At a motocorsa day, I saw the same bike with a B sticker as well as a C sticker, and there were two separate people riding the same bike. I am sure the promoters would work with you.

xqsme · 07-15-2009, 10:02 PM

I think they allow that. But the problem will be when one of you crash, then both of you are done for the day.

the chemist · 07-15-2009, 10:43 PM

Couple things to think about...

What happens in the event of a crash? Does only the person who crashed pay? Do you both pay since its both your bike? What happens if one doesn't have cash to fix it? etc.

If you go with the I run B you run C idea...what happens if the slower rider gets faster and wants to run B? Do you split time then? What happens if one of you has to work and can't be the 'pit crew' etc? Do you both only get to use it for a certain amount of days each year? If one is doing more trackdays than the other, how do you guys pay for tires fairly?

IMHO, its not worth a friendship...and I could see it going to that place. My vote is either get your own bike, or ride your street bike. Its best not to share something like a vehicle or motorcycle...

As for the bike itself. . .Dunno who told you not to buy a newer bike. Even my 03 636 will do like :30s or faster around Pacific (with someone else on it)...so that logic is a big flawed. I would say get a 600 yes, but it doesn't need to be OLD. Not to mention parts are WAY harder to find for older bikes (yes, even 03's or so)

cee-jay · 07-15-2009, 10:50 PM

Picking up an older bike (especially a used, race prepped one) is very smart. Especially something like the F3.

Our pit "group" was just talking (lamenting really) about how many people start out on a somewhat shiny-new 600-750-1000, end up crashing, and for whatever reason, don't come back.

Start out on something in the $1200-$2500 dollar range. Pay cash. Invest in good take-offs.

Crash a newer street (able) bike, and you have just converted a $$$ streeter to a dedicated track bike. You didn't even get anything out of the plastic. Really not good if you still have a loan on it.

Crash an older bike and you replace a few parts, bend things back into place, and duck-tape or fiberglass the bodywork. No big deal, in fact, it's probably already been done a few times.

Not so sure about the buddy thing.......

I think splitting things like a pop-up, travel expenses, driving, and helping each other out in the pits is the best way to go.

It's also fun just being out there and learning with friends. ie: RACING! (at least as rac-ee as track days get)

Can't do that on one bike. Unless you want to ride double.........cough....cough....

cj

NoQuarter#121 · 07-15-2009, 10:51 PM

You could get an f3 or f4 cheap.

older r6, gsxr 6 or an SV.

ride the crap out of it, and when you are ready move into something else.

I like my 750's.

I would recommend you stay away from any litre bikes.

cee-jay · 07-15-2009, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by the chemist

......Not to mention parts are WAY harder to find for older bikes (yes, even 03's or so)

I don't really agree with this, though there might be some hard to find parts.

I have had PLENTY of luck on that online auction site finding F2/F3 parts. Same deal for my '99 SV.

Alpine 318is · 07-16-2009, 08:26 AM

Sounds like a good idea. I thing the best idea is that you do a full day and he does a full day. i think there is a cheap 02 or 03 gsxr for sale somewhere on the boards.

http://spokane.craigslist.org/mcy/1271843252.html
2003 Graves R6
03 GSX-R 600 race bike

D_Rail · 07-16-2009, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by NoQuarter#121

and when you are ready move into something else.

I like my 750's.

to that!

Also think about the fact that you are both going have vastly different riding styles, you probably both dont weigh the same thus the suspension is going to react differently for both of you.. Just to many variables. I imagine that a Honda 600 F2 or F3 can be had for mega cheap these days.. Like less than 2k most likely. Save up a little longer and both get one.

richardlpalmer · 07-16-2009, 08:53 AM

And F3 or F4 are not only going to be cheap to initially buy but also to maintain. Those things are pretty bullet proof.

An older R6, GSXR 600, ZX6 or even an SV650 would also be great choices.

As for the arrangement between you two, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Unless you weigh vastly different amounts you'll probably have a ton of fun with the stock suspension. As both of you improve you may want to improve those bits but most likely adjusting what you have (or doing minor upgrades) will provide you with tons of fun.

And as you're talking about cheap bikes you might find there's little to worry about in the event of a crash. Although to minimize crash concern take a look at the Suzuki SV. Being a twin, the engine cases aren't going to stick out like an inline four. Less to grind on the pavement = less cost to fix.

But yea, find something you guys like and go for it!

Mic · 07-16-2009, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by the chemist

As for the bike itself. . .Dunno who told you not to buy a newer bike. Even my 03 636 will do like :30s or faster around Pacific (with someone else on it)...so that logic is a big flawed. I would say get a 600 yes, but it doesn't need to be OLD. Not to mention parts are WAY harder to find for older bikes (yes, even 03's or so)

He didn't say Older, he said Slower.

And it has nothing to do with what the bike is capable of (as you used in your example) it has to do with what the rider is capable of.

A lot of riders have commented over the years, that they were able to knock time off, by riding on a slower bike for a day or 2. I've actually heard this more than enough times to put it into the "I can see that" pile of thinking.

Also opinion on the OP's question:

Get your own bike, I can see many a problems arising from a "track bike share".

It will make itself more complicated than it is worth.

nocontrol74 · 07-16-2009, 09:13 AM

Sharing a track bike would be a lot like having an endurance team bike in terms of how you decide to share the costs of consumables like gas and tires and of bigger expenses like crash damage or engine repair.

PM Tom Marx (skidmarx here on PNW) and ask him.

Great idea on what kind of bike to get by the way. I say go for it.

galenernest · 07-16-2009, 09:45 AM

Thanks for all the input so far... yeah sharing a bike may have its drawbacks. I wonder if it's worth the hassle or if we should just get separate bikes. I'll have to sleep on it, but I think it's something that is doable. We've swapped street bikes around already, but no we never actually "shared" a street bike. And it would be fun to get out on the track at the same time, in the same group.

It would be cool to get used to sharing a track bike then we could be an endurance team to race

Motophotog · 07-16-2009, 09:50 AM

There is a older bike #711, that rides NESBA days, and i believe they race. Dad rides intermediate, and son rides beginner. Pretty cool.

james1300 · 07-16-2009, 10:11 AM

My Lil Brother and I tried to share our FIRST bike. That lasted like 3 months.
Maybe get a pair of SV's and share a trailer and parts?
SV's are very strong and will give you both great service. Sharing the trailer and gas to get to the track is alot EZer to do than you both wanting to ride and someone blows the bike or crashes the bike.

ducatichick · 07-16-2009, 11:24 AM

I'd recommend an SV 650 or Ninja 650 or even EX500. My first year of racing was on an F3 back in 97. Scary class. I switched to a Honda RS125 in 98 and learned about corner speed, late braking, drafting - passed 600's on the outside of turns

I shared a bike once - we weren't really friends to begin with, and we definitely weren't friends afterwards. It can work but it can be difficult.

the chemist · 07-16-2009, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by cee-jay

I don't really agree with this, though there might be some hard to find parts.

I have had PLENTY of luck on that online auction site finding F2/F3 parts. Same deal for my '99 SV.

I wasn't talking ebay or forums. You can find ANYTHING on the internet. Im talking "oh crap such and such on my bike is broken, anything anyone can help me do to get running to finish this race/trackday" parts for gixxers, for example, can be bought trackside. ever have to fix your bike in the early sessions after a crash? it sucks knowing even if you can, you're day will likely be over. try finding someone else running your F2 with a spare exhaust hanger, clip on, etc. that you can borrow for the day...the older the bike, the fewer the people running them...and the fewer trackside spares.

Originally Posted by Mic

And it has nothing to do with what the bike is capable of (as you used in your example) it has to do with what the rider is capable of.

A lot of riders have commented over the years, that they were able to knock time off, by riding on a slower bike for a day or 2. I've actually heard this more than enough times to put it into the "I can see that" pile of thinking.

I agree that slower bikes help. But what is 'slower'? My point was that even older 600's can put down pretty impressive times. . . are they really that much slower? Maybe a little down the straight. Maybe they wont get quite the drive out of corners...but they aren't THAT much slower. I was just trying to say find a great deal and go for it.

Unless he's going to run a 125/250 or SV anything is still going to be a 'quick' bike. and if they're splitting a trackbike, im guessing they don't have money to buy/maintain a 250...

richardlpalmer · 07-16-2009, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by nocontrol74

Sharing a track bike would be a lot like having an endurance team bike in terms of how you decide to share the costs of consumables like gas and tires and of bigger expenses like crash damage or engine repair.

PM Tom Marx (skidmarx here on PNW) and ask him.

Great idea on what kind of bike to get by the way. I say go for it.

This is a good way to view it.

galenernest · 07-16-2009, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by the chemist

Unless he's going to run a 125/250 or SV anything is still going to be a 'quick' bike. and if they're splitting a trackbike, im guessing they don't have money to buy/maintain a 250...

Truth be told. The reason I'm thinking of starting with an older 600 is that I find a lot of them already track prepped for sale around our budget. There's a guy selling an F2 for $1500 turn-key (apparently). I would be down with getting an even slower bike, like an ex500 or gs500/550 but I don't seem to see these bikes for sale already prepped for the track. Seems like the 600's are a dime a dozen and crashing wouldn't be terribly expensive. We fix things with duct tape, rivets, zip ties, and my buddy Eddie just recently got a welder and is learning to weld/braze so if we can fix it rather than replacing it, that's what we plan to do. I've got a stupid little Dodge D50 and all we need now is a trailer, a cheap genny, ez up canopy of some kind, and some stands. But a lot of the race bikes for sale include stands, spares, and stuff like that.

Keep the ideas flowing guys and thanks so much for the input!

SatansPetFerret · 07-16-2009, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by galenernest

Truth be told. The reason I'm thinking of starting with an older 600 is that I find a lot of them already track prepped for sale around our budget. There's a guy selling an F2 for $1500 turn-key (apparently). I would be down with getting an even slower bike, like an ex500 or gs500/550 but I don't seem to see these bikes for sale already prepped for the track. Seems like the 600's are a dime a dozen and crashing wouldn't be terribly expensive. We fix things with duct tape, rivets, zip ties, and my buddy Eddie just recently got a welder and is learning to weld/braze so if we can fix it rather than replacing it, that's what we plan to do. I've got a stupid little Dodge D50 and all we need now is a trailer, a cheap genny, ez up canopy of some kind, and some stands. But a lot of the race bikes for sale include stands, spares, and stuff like that.

Keep the ideas flowing guys and thanks so much for the input!

I have an F3 totally prepped that will likely be up for sale later this year. Parts are cheap and easy to come by from the comfort of home, but not necessarily at the track. I bring a lot of zip ties, duct tape, and safety wire just like you're talking about, plus 2 boxes full of spare parts, including rear shock, carbs, main fairing stay, all sorts of random crap. I have something like 5 left rearsets and 3 sets of clipons. Don't have an exhaust, engine, or spare bodywork, but I got everything else and more. Craploads of take-offs too. PM me if you want more info. F3 is a great starter bike for the track.

dammyneckhurts · 07-18-2009, 07:56 PM

If you go the 2 bike route and you have an easy option to both have the same model and generation bike....take it. You can share spare parts....its a good idea to have spare bars, rearsets, levers, battery, stays, etc etc.

Deerhunter · 07-20-2009, 04:25 AM

Do it. A bud of mine and I did it about 10 years ago. I'd never ridden a sport bike and my only track time was in karts. We bought a new R6 to share with everyone for some street riding. Did a track day at Thunderhill. On the way home I exercised my option and bought his half

. Be prepared for this possibility.


07-15-2009, 09:51 PM	#2
odin544 Superbiker Joined: Apr 2007 From: Kennewick, Washington I Ride: '08 Ducati 848 street , '03 R6 track bike	Hmmm... I see this going like a couple of 6 y/o boys playing with the coolest toy. "okay its my turn" "no I want one more turn" "no its my turn, Thats not fair" HAHA I'd say stick to one rider one day. But I dont see why you couldnt have one rider in C and one in B if one of you thinks your ready for B group. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-15-2009, 09:59 PM	#3
motostunter Zone Head Joined: Aug 2006 From: Portland, Or (Bethany) I Ride: 03 636	At a motocorsa day, I saw the same bike with a B sticker as well as a C sticker, and there were two separate people riding the same bike. I am sure the promoters would work with you. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-15-2009, 10:02 PM	#4
xqsme WMRRA Qualifier Joined: May 2007 From: NE Portland, OR (gresham/troutdale) I Ride: Triumph Daytona 675, 08 BMW g650 xmoto	I think they allow that. But the problem will be when one of you crash, then both of you are done for the day. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-15-2009, 10:43 PM	#5
the chemist ducatiduane Joined: Feb 2007 From: Cheney I Ride: but not on the street.	Couple things to think about... What happens in the event of a crash? Does only the person who crashed pay? Do you both pay since its both your bike? What happens if one doesn't have cash to fix it? etc. If you go with the I run B you run C idea...what happens if the slower rider gets faster and wants to run B? Do you split time then? What happens if one of you has to work and can't be the 'pit crew' etc? Do you both only get to use it for a certain amount of days each year? If one is doing more trackdays than the other, how do you guys pay for tires fairly? IMHO, its not worth a friendship...and I could see it going to that place. My vote is either get your own bike, or ride your street bike. Its best not to share something like a vehicle or motorcycle... As for the bike itself. . .Dunno who told you not to buy a newer bike. Even my 03 636 will do like :30s or faster around Pacific (with someone else on it)...so that logic is a big flawed. I would say get a 600 yes, but it doesn't need to be OLD. Not to mention parts are WAY harder to find for older bikes (yes, even 03's or so) __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-15-2009, 10:50 PM	#6
cee-jay sctnabt Joined: Mar 2006 From: Genesee, Idaho I Ride: '05 Kaw Z750	Picking up an older bike (especially a used, race prepped one) is very smart. Especially something like the F3. Our pit "group" was just talking (lamenting really) about how many people start out on a somewhat shiny-new 600-750-1000, end up crashing, and for whatever reason, don't come back. Start out on something in the $1200-$2500 dollar range. Pay cash. Invest in good take-offs. Crash a newer street (able) bike, and you have just converted a $$$ streeter to a dedicated track bike. You didn't even get anything out of the plastic. Really not good if you still have a loan on it. Crash an older bike and you replace a few parts, bend things back into place, and duck-tape or fiberglass the bodywork. No big deal, in fact, it's probably already been done a few times. Not so sure about the buddy thing....... I think splitting things like a pop-up, travel expenses, driving, and helping each other out in the pits is the best way to go. It's also fun just being out there and learning with friends. ie: RACING! (at least as rac-ee as track days get) Can't do that on one bike. Unless you want to ride double.........cough....cough.... cj __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by cee-jay; 07-15-2009 at 10:54 PM..

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07-15-2009, 09:40 PM	#1
galenernest Zone Head Joined: Jun 2008 From: Vancouver, WA I Ride: year 'round	Need input on first track bike to share Me and my best buddy are thinking of combining our resources and going in on a track bike together. I've heard people say to start on a slower bike, because you'll never get fast if you start out on an already fast bike. So I'm thinking an oldish (late 90's to early 00's) 600. Maybe something like a 600 F3. Us sharing a bike would be perfect because we're both the same size and weight. Our concept is pretty simple. When one of us is riding at the track day, the other is the pit crew. But I had another thought; is it possible to run the same track day at the same time, with one of us in C group and one in B group, sharing the same bike? I've also heard of half-days. So one of us could do the morning session, and the other could do the afternoon session. Or maybe we'll just keep it to separate days to make things simpler? Anyone else ever do something like this? (I know Brian M did and that's where I got the idea from). __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-15-2009, 10:51 PM	#7
NoQuarter#121 Streetfighter Joined: Sep 2007 From: 2nd star to the right and straight on 'til morning I Ride: on ice at 15F below zero	You could get an f3 or f4 cheap. older r6, gsxr 6 or an SV. ride the crap out of it, and when you are ready move into something else. I like my 750's. I would recommend you stay away from any litre bikes. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-16-2009, 08:26 AM	#9
Alpine 318is Zone Head Joined: Jan 2007 From: Bellevue, Washington I Ride: 2003 Suzuki GSX-R 600 Alstare	Sounds like a good idea. I thing the best idea is that you do a full day and he does a full day. i think there is a cheap 02 or 03 gsxr for sale somewhere on the boards. http://spokane.craigslist.org/mcy/1271843252.html 2003 Graves R6 03 GSX-R 600 race bike __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by Alpine 318is; 07-16-2009 at 08:29 AM..


07-16-2009, 08:53 AM	#11
richardlpalmer Forum Leader Joined: Nov 2005 From: Kirkland, WA	And F3 or F4 are not only going to be cheap to initially buy but also to maintain. Those things are pretty bullet proof. An older R6, GSXR 600, ZX6 or even an SV650 would also be great choices. As for the arrangement between you two, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Unless you weigh vastly different amounts you'll probably have a ton of fun with the stock suspension. As both of you improve you may want to improve those bits but most likely adjusting what you have (or doing minor upgrades) will provide you with tons of fun. And as you're talking about cheap bikes you might find there's little to worry about in the event of a crash. Although to minimize crash concern take a look at the Suzuki SV. Being a twin, the engine cases aren't going to stick out like an inline four. Less to grind on the pavement = less cost to fix. But yea, find something you guys like and go for it! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-16-2009, 09:13 AM	#13
nocontrol74 MotoGP Contender Joined: May 2007 From: Spokane, WA Blog Entries: 1 I Ride: 06 SV Race Bike - As soon as I have a job...	Sharing a track bike would be a lot like having an endurance team bike in terms of how you decide to share the costs of consumables like gas and tires and of bigger expenses like crash damage or engine repair. PM Tom Marx (skidmarx here on PNW) and ask him. Great idea on what kind of bike to get by the way. I say go for it. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-16-2009, 09:45 AM	#14
galenernest Zone Head Joined: Jun 2008 From: Vancouver, WA I Ride: year 'round	Thanks for all the input so far... yeah sharing a bike may have its drawbacks. I wonder if it's worth the hassle or if we should just get separate bikes. I'll have to sleep on it, but I think it's something that is doable. We've swapped street bikes around already, but no we never actually "shared" a street bike. And it would be fun to get out on the track at the same time, in the same group. It would be cool to get used to sharing a track bike then we could be an endurance team to race __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-16-2009, 09:50 AM	#15
Motophotog Retired Joined: Jun 2006 From: Federal Way I Ride: KTM Supermoto, Plated YZ426 Supermoto, 74 Suzuki GT250 Hustler, Yamaha GT80	There is a older bike #711, that rides NESBA days, and i believe they race. Dad rides intermediate, and son rides beginner. Pretty cool. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-16-2009, 10:11 AM	#16
james1300 Track School Dazed Joined: Oct 2005 From: CENTRAL I Ride: When I can	My Lil Brother and I tried to share our FIRST bike. That lasted like 3 months. Maybe get a pair of SV's and share a trailer and parts? SV's are very strong and will give you both great service. Sharing the trailer and gas to get to the track is alot EZer to do than you both wanting to ride and someone blows the bike or crashes the bike. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-16-2009, 11:24 AM	#17
ducatichick Pit Crew Joined: Jul 2009 From: Corvallis, OR I Ride: 08 Hypervibrator	I'd recommend an SV 650 or Ninja 650 or even EX500. My first year of racing was on an F3 back in 97. Scary class. I switched to a Honda RS125 in 98 and learned about corner speed, late braking, drafting - passed 600's on the outside of turns I shared a bike once - we weren't really friends to begin with, and we definitely weren't friends afterwards. It can work but it can be difficult. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-18-2009, 07:56 PM	#22
dammyneckhurts Newbie Joined: Apr 2009 From: Whistler BC	If you go the 2 bike route and you have an easy option to both have the same model and generation bike....take it. You can share spare parts....its a good idea to have spare bars, rearsets, levers, battery, stays, etc etc. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


07-20-2009, 04:25 AM	#23
Deerhunter Endorsed Joined: Oct 2007 From: Portland, OR I Ride: Motorbikes	Do it. A bud of mine and I did it about 10 years ago. I'd never ridden a sport bike and my only track time was in karts. We bought a new R6 to share with everyone for some street riding. Did a track day at Thunderhill. On the way home I exercised my option and bought his half . Be prepared for this possibility. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by Deerhunter; 07-20-2009 at 04:42 AM..

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