PNW Riders

Saber63 · 11-06-2009, 10:29 AM

Hey i was wondering if NESBA, 2-fast, WMRRA, OMRRA or any other track based motorcycle groups had saftey stats.

im trying to convince my fiancee that track days and racing are a safe way for one to get out and have fun(compared to stuff like advanced down hill sking and MT biking). she didn't like my first track day very much,(and i didnt even have any close calls) but she still thinks that me do 150 down the front of PR was to scary and dangerous. but im starting to come to grips with the fact that im addicted to the track after one hit... and need to go back

second thing, any events let you take passangers?(with proper gear of course) :D

Thanks guys!

-Levi

odin544 · 11-06-2009, 11:24 AM

I know a CR can take a passenger at some trackdays.

Stats? Have her look at all the RIP threads on here. Show me one that happens on the track. You have medical staff with you way quicker at the track if something happens. On the street you get to wait......

Swanny · 11-06-2009, 11:27 AM

You are always safer at the track. And the track makes you safer on the road.
No stat's to provide...but I know there's an ambulance and help at the ready there vs. on the side of a mountain or buried in the woods.

dragracer1951 · 11-06-2009, 11:29 AM

00000
No traffic pulling out in front of you.
Generally like riders grouped together.
Lots of run off incase of a little oopsie.
Medical staff on hand
Great training.
What's not to like?

NoQuarter#121 · 11-06-2009, 11:31 AM

Stats are not kept.

BUT!

In my years of sportriding, road racing, cruiser riding and off road riding all of the deaths of my personal friends have been on street legal bikes on the road.
And I have lost a few. RIP.

Of course there can be issues on the track, after crashes or oilings, but these things are usually caught pretty quick and dealt with.

Tracks are high speed sure,
But the track is way safer than the street in my opinion.

no trafffic maiking left turns across your lane
No cell phones or distracted drivers
no blind unknown corners
no gravel
no oil spots
no animals

and

Everyone on bikes
Everyone going the same direction
corner workers
emt or paramedics on site with very quick response

etc... etc.. etc...

Saber63 · 11-06-2009, 11:37 AM

as much fun as i think it would be to be on the back of a CR's bike, im SURE she wouldnt lol. but i figure if she wants to see for her self how safe it is without having to drive herself... maybe that'ed work.

as for the RIP threads, it makes me very sad... but i think it might work... i think thre might have been one or maybe 2 RIP threads in the track section...

but of course shell argue its because its based on volume/milage... etc... and what about non fatal injurys? etc.... hense why a nice stats page would be nice lol, and then i dont have to look at all the RIP pages :(

im thinking it'll turn into a big fight, unless i can get HER to WANT to go to the track... but every amount of ammo helps in a fight lol.

thanks man!

what really blows my mind is i went to track after having a low speed street wreck, and shes more worried about the track then I5 in the dark and wet :wtf:

-Levi

holy shit 3 more posts while i replied! lol,

thank you very much for all the info! i know ther alot of guys who dont ride the street anymore, due to lossing so many friends/ getting hurt themselfs etc....

InvisibleMan · 11-06-2009, 11:46 AM

I have been to Adrenaline Freaks and seen some people doing two-up laps.

http://studio819.smugmug.com/Adrenal...38107175_tZoJb

Seen it at 2-Fast also. It's only done in the beginner class, for obvious reasons. It might put her at ease or it might not. It's kinda funny how non-riders think that doing 150mph in a straight line is the dangerous part? Must be the ol 'speed kills' mentality, eh? The braking and turns are where most of the wrecks seem to occur. If she's OK with you riding on the road then, it doesn't make much sense to worry about you in a totally controlled environment at the track. It's all about risk vs reward though. I tell ya, I have been hurt worse and more frequently over the years on my mtn bikes than on my motorcycles. I'd get rid of everything else before I'd get rid of one of my motorcycles. The best thing about track days is that there are no brain-dead cagers out there that are trying to kill you, debris/spills get cleaned up before the track goes green again and you get to use the whole road instead of half.

She should be more worried about you eating fast food than doing something active that you truly enjoy? If she wants statistics, tell her to look at the statistics on chronic obesity in this country. Eating is more dangerous than motorcycles!

dragracer1951 · 11-06-2009, 11:59 AM

Here's something else to think about.
My wife dosen't participate in everything I do. Just as I don't participate in all of her activities. What we DO do though is support each other. She knows I know what I'm doing. She knows I ride and why...she supports it. Dosen't necessarily LIKE it...but supports it.

evil_dave · 11-06-2009, 12:34 PM

I have a stat for you:

Half of all mariages end in divorce.

Teach her how to use a rear stand for you when you come in off the track. If she gets it, she's a keeper.

pkaustin · 11-06-2009, 12:41 PM

Big dif between racing and trackdays, but this might help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VruWH...layer_embedded

SMOKE · 11-06-2009, 12:47 PM

Stat on me: In the past 15 years I've crashed 3 times on street and none on the track (knock on wood) also none after riding the track.
You'll love it!!

odin544 · 11-06-2009, 01:48 PM

I've crashed twice. once on the street once on the track.

Street:
Had a semi truck turn left in front of me. Ended up on life support for a month in an induced coma
Tore both coratid arteries
Tore Aorta (had to have open heart bypass)
Broken collar bone (6 spots)
Broken shoulder blade
Dislocated left shoulder
7 broken ribs
Punctured and collapsed left lung (right lung later collapsed)
Ruptured spleen (Had splenectomy to remove)
Lacerated liver
Torn left quad

followed with 6 months of hell to learn to walk again and wipe my own ass.
I could go on and on and on about it.

On the track:
Lowside into T5 at PR
I scratched my plastics
I bent my shift lever
I scuffed my leathers
The worst part of it all was cleaning all the dirt/mud off my leathers

Sign me up for the track! BTW if was actually pretty fun sliding on the pavement like I did. I always wanted to do it like I've always seen on TV. Slide down the pavement, hands and feet out. I had to remember to wait till I came to a full stop until I tried to stand up though

Saber63 · 11-06-2009, 02:07 PM

thank you so much guys, im not sure if it wil be enough, but im willing to give it a shoot! lol

when i wrecked on the street i to had fun, i low sided in the wet when someone cut me off, so i slid on my ass, got a bruise, and watched my bike get totaled... until i relised that 5 difrent cars almsot ran me over, and had i not low sided i would have gone off the over pass into the freway.

even though ive bought a new bike... ive hardly riden sense my track day... (did that about 5 months after my wreck) mostly cause the risks are so much higher!!!

one more question... should i talk to her about it now? or wait till its track season again?

thanks guys!

-Levi

dwschultzy · 11-06-2009, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by dragracer1951

Here's something else to think about.
My wife dosen't participate in everything I do. Just as I don't participate in all of her activities. What we DO do though is support each other. She knows I know what I'm doing. She knows I ride and why...she supports it. Dosen't necessarily LIKE it...but supports it.

very well put

they dont have to like it....but they also know that if they fight it......its not going to end the way they would like it
some of my family and close ones have their opinions on what i do....but they also know that they will never change my mind or my passion for it because of their opinions....so they usually keep it to themselves

Originally Posted by evil_dave

I have a stat for you:

Half of all mariages end in divorce.

Teach her how to use a rear stand for you when you come in off the track. If she gets it, she's a keeper.

plus juan

MadManx · 11-06-2009, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by evil_dave

I have a stat for you:

Half of all mariages end in divorce.

Teach her how to use a rear stand for you when you come in off the track. If she gets it, she's a keeper.

Mine knows how to tire warmer, buys me race bikesand superbike school

richardlpalmer · 11-06-2009, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Saber63

Hey i was wondering if NESBA, 2-fast, WMRRA, OMRRA or any other track based motorcycle groups had saftey stats.

im trying to convince my fiancee that track days and racing are a safe way for one to get out and have fun(compared to stuff like advanced down hill sking and MT biking). she didn't like my first track day very much,(and i didnt even have any close calls) but she still thinks that me do 150 down the front of PR was to scary and dangerous. but im starting to come to grips with the fact that im addicted to the track after one hit... and need to go back

second thing, any events let you take passangers?(with proper gear of course) :D

Thanks guys!

-Levi

I don't know of any stats like that but you might poker around the AMA's website (for American statistics).

And while everyone's posts are great, they haven't really addressed your question. You didn't ask about the track versus street riding. You asked about the track versus skiing, mountain biking, etc.

There's a couple things I'd say you can do on this. The first (fun one) is to pull a nice big play list of motorcycle racing/track crashes. And then pull an equally large play list of ski/bicycling crashes. Sit down with her and watch them back and forth. The highsides are going to be the worst, typically. But in skiing/mt biking the wrecks can be pretty nasty, too.

But the bigger issue that I'm hearing is that you guys aren't in sufficient communication that she trusts you and you somehow feel you need to "convince" her or get her approval. If you just talk to her, listen, acknowledge what she says and ultimately understand one another, I don't see where a problem can exist on the matter. This is something you love, it's something you have a passion for. Answer her questions the best you can but ultimately it's going to come down to you guys being on the same page...

But I'd rather slide on a flat track into some runoff in full gear at 150 than tumble down a rocky ravine in shorts and a t-shirt and 25. And the prospect of hitting a tree at 40 coming down a mountain is equally unappealing, but to each their own. But even that's kind of unrealistic. A crash at super high speed is not very common. Most crashes happen in corners where the speeds are much lower than straights...

Originally Posted by pkaustin

Big dif between racing and trackdays, but this might help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VruWH...layer_embedded

Okay, that video right there is FULL of win! Rep to you, sir!

Lee650 · 11-07-2009, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by odin544

I've crashed twice. once on the street once on the track.

Sign me up for the track! BTW if was actually pretty fun sliding on the pavement like I did. I always wanted to do it like I've always seen on TV. Slide down the pavement, hands and feet out. I had to remember to wait till I came to a full stop until I tried to stand up though

Your right the pavement was not bad but when you hit the dirt, at the end of the pavement, it's a bitch, sky-dirt, sky-dirt, sky-dirt,

MoDub · 11-07-2009, 01:30 PM

Woman's perpective? If she doesn't like it, she doesn't have to come watch it. There are PLENTY of folks I see at the track whose wives, girlfriends, boyfriends don't come out. Do the wives LIKE that their husbands are out there? Maybe not... Are they going to be supportive because girlfriend/fiance/wife does not equal dictator? Of course!

It's dangerous but there are PLENTY of very smart, mature, supportive women who support their mate's passion and stay calm when the bike comes back in pieces. Of course they can be worried but it is what it is. Why such drama?

I am a skier and I don't expect my boyfriend to come to the ski area and sit in the lodge while I am out skiing. Your fiance doesn't need to come watch if it makes her uneasy. Out of sight, out of mind. My dad watches me race. My dad's wife won't come NEAR the track if I am on it. It freaks her out too much but she is happy to support from afar.

I think turning it into a Dr Phil moment seems a bit silly. Tell her you love it and that you would hope she would support it. If she isn't going to. Do it anyway. HA!

Monica

wow. read through this and realize now there may be a reason I am not married. haha!

MoDub · 11-07-2009, 01:37 PM

On another note, I don't think there is a way to convince her it is safer than skiing and mountain biking. Based on my personal experience (raced cross country mtb and big mountain skier since I was 15,) it probably isn't. It's a dangerous sport but definitely safer than anything else you can do on a motorcycle... I think...
\
my 2 cents.

Essvar · 11-07-2009, 03:35 PM

I actively participate in all of your aforementioned sports... the ONLY one I haven't been hurt doing is racing motorcycles

The last girl I was with didn't care about the high speeds but she did say "It scared me when you were passing that guy and your bike started to get real loud"... But I met her Ski racing so she may be an exception to the rule.

And Monica the only reason you are still single is because Brad "Factory" DeLong isn't 18.... yet

dakh · 11-07-2009, 07:03 PM

I've done my share of tree dodging and cliff dropping on a snowboard and IMHO it's quite a bit safer than track riding. Mountain biking, probably will get more small injuries on a push bike compared to more rare but more serious on a motorbike. Riding/racing supermoto seems to be the same kind of tradeoff, more smaller injuries vs. less but more serious ones, so might consider that.

I'll pile up with everyone on the point that if she's expecting to decide for you if you're gonna ride on the track or not, you've got bigger problems to deal with.

Saber63 · 11-07-2009, 10:26 PM

Thanks everyone!!!

to clear a few things up, at first whe told me never to go back(the day of) but awhile later she told me i could go, but it would make her feel like shit, so technicaly i could have gone all summer long.

but i do love her very much and i dont like seeing her feel shitty.

however today we had a nice little chit chat about how im an adrenline junky speed freak, (she was wondering why we stoped at a MC shop to look at dirt bikes and trade in my street bike LOL )

after explaining that to hear, she kinda was quite for awhile and asked me if i took my car to the track if she could ride passanger

shes a keeper! while she is senstive about somethings, shes gotta be the best girl ive ever meet!

and i do thank everyone for there ideas and help, i used alot of the info you guys posted up! i think it really helped her understand better,

and just an FYI im pretty sure there have been more sking deaths in the PNW then deaths from riding a motorcyle on a track...

so i might not be out there the first few track days, but im pretty damn sure ill get atleast one in

the chemist · 11-08-2009, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by MoDub

there are PLENTY of very smart, mature, supportive women who support their mate's passion and stay calm when the bike comes back in pieces. Of course they can be worried but it is what it is.

Monica, you should help me find one of these ladies....

The chances of crashing on the track are severely higher than on the street. The chance of getting seriously injured, however, is not. Explain this to her. Because if you continue to do trackdays, you'll probably crash eventually...and she needs to know that, too. However, the chance of sustaining anything more than a broken bone or two is extremely limited.

To put it in perspective...

June 08, I highsided at Pacific. My ankle, to this day, is still swollen and hurts like hell most days. I've crashed three other times at the track.

I've never crashed on the street.

I gave up street riding because it's too dangerous.

dakh · 11-08-2009, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by the chemist

To put it in perspective...

June 08, I highsided at Pacific. My ankle, to this day, is still swollen and hurts like hell most days. I've crashed three other times at the track.

I've never crashed on the street.

I gave up street riding because it's too dangerous.

You realize that to an outsider this statement sounds totally self-contradicting do you?

It'll always come to the question of "why the hell would you want to ride bikes at ridiculous speeds and endanger yourself", at least talking to an outsider. You can tell them it's safer to do so at the track and maybe even convince them that's the case, but the bigger issue is getting them to grasp why you want to do such a thing to begin with, street or track.

lena · 11-08-2009, 03:54 PM

This is interesting. And for all of you track junkies, I am sure this will be a can of worms ... But if track is so much safer than street (and god forbid I am not saying it isn't before I get lynched) then why the hell are there no statistics supporting that? There should be a ton!

Lee650 · 11-08-2009, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by lena

This is interesting. And for all of you track junkies, I am sure this will be a can of worms ... But if track is so much safer than street (and god forbid I am not saying it isn't before I get lynched) then why the hell are there no statistics supporting that? There should be a ton!

Not sure that kind of info is tracked the way accidents on the street are. I know I've ridden approximately 20 track days this year and have seen maybe one serious (someone was hurt) crash per track day, but not one single death. And remember that's 50 plus riders riding all day as fast as they can around a two mile course. No one said track riding is safe but if you crash it's definitely safer then crashing on the street.
This year there has been twice as many accidents on the street resulting in several deaths and several serious injuries.

02XXCA · 11-08-2009, 07:36 PM

With over 100,000 miles on the street over the last 7 years and having lost 6 close friends to street riding in the same period has made my wife prefer me riding on the track.

My first crash happened on the track this year at close to 60 MPH and I was able to limp away. It did, re-enforce my belief that the track is much safer for flat out riding. My wife was not very supportive having to come pick me up from the ER from an emotional standpoint, but I hope she will get over it. I guess watching your love one participate in a dangerous sport may be hard to deal with for some spouses. My family definately does not get it, but riding is something I love to do and an accident is not going to change my mind. I will learn and move on and not live some protective life for no one.

Some might call it selfish, but I call it living!

the chemist · 11-08-2009, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by dakh

but the bigger issue is getting them to grasp why you want to do such a thing to begin with, street or track.

and it is almost impossible to do so without them experiencing it too. instead, you have to hope they will except it, instead of try to understand it

Originally Posted by lena

This is interesting. And for all of you track junkies, I am sure this will be a can of worms ... But if track is so much safer than street (and god forbid I am not saying it isn't before I get lynched) then why the hell are there no statistics supporting that? There should be a ton!

because its not a point of concern. its dangerous, i dont think anyone will lie about that. however, the concern is not how many crashes happen. its part of riding at the track, its going to happen. however, fatalities are virtually nil. crashes and injuries on the street aren't tracked either...

dakh · 11-08-2009, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by lena

This is interesting. And for all of you track junkies, I am sure this will be a can of worms ... But if track is so much safer than street (and god forbid I am not saying it isn't before I get lynched) then why the hell are there no statistics supporting that? There should be a ton!

No need for statistics, linguistics to it -- people pushing it on the street you call organ donors, people pushing it on the track you call tack junkies.

Edit: and yea, empirically the latter tend to stick around a bit longer.

courier11sec · 11-08-2009, 10:12 PM

I believe ANY safety statistic resets on an individual basis.
If you practice good safety measures and can control yourself rather than try to ride above your skill level, it seems like there is no safer place to ride than a track.
That said, I've never had a track day, but I have a feeling the risk of being cut off by a minivan or merged into by a semi decreases drastically on a racetrack.
Personally that stuff scares me a lot more than learning to ride fast and smooth.

evil_dave · 11-08-2009, 10:14 PM

Within my own financial boundries, I try to live each day like it's my last. I'm a cancer survivor. I'm living on borrowed time... aren't we all...?

I have never crashed on the street. I have 5 crashes on the track. In one of those crashes I was knocked out for 30 minutes after a spill in T2 at Pacific, woke up in the ambulance 5 minutes from the hospital with complete amnesia. Destroyed my left collar bone in T3.

I have no regrets.

For some of us, "risk" or "danger" are registered in the "pleasure" centers of our brains. We are not so easily entertained as other mere mortals.

dakh · 11-08-2009, 10:20 PM

Completely off topic, but Dave, you should try PGP/Sumo, I think it'll fit you well and you sure will fit with the crew. It's a bit spastic lately due to weather but you're more than welcome to take my bike out for a spin.

dwschultzy · 11-09-2009, 07:51 AM

imho...you have bigger problems than riding on the track

good luck

evil_dave · 11-09-2009, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by dwschultzy

imho...you have bigger problems than riding on the track

good luck

That made me snicker.

evil_dave · 11-09-2009, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by dakh

Completely off topic, but Dave, you should try PGP/Sumo, I think it'll fit you well and you sure will fit with the crew. It's a bit spastic lately due to weather but you're more than welcome to take my bike out for a spin.

Hmmm tempting. Let me think about it...

You're a good guy Dimitri. Thank you for forgiving my past outbursts.

richardlpalmer · 11-09-2009, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by lena

This is interesting. And for all of you track junkies, I am sure this will be a can of worms ... But if track is so much safer than street (and god forbid I am not saying it isn't before I get lynched) then why the hell are there no statistics supporting that? There should be a ton!

With street crashes there are incident reports. These can then be used to compile statistics.

With the track I don't believe there is anything like that. Well, I know when you get a ride to the hospital they want to know how you were injured, but that's only on the injuries.

So maybe it's possible to find injuries (requiring hospitilization) from racetracks, but without knowing actual numbers of riders (and time on the track) I don't think you'd be able to correlate the data very well...

lena · 11-09-2009, 08:37 AM

Well, I am still puzzled that there aren't any statistics for track. It would be very interesting to compare injured vs fatalities and street vs track. I understand how you all feel but still - it's just a feeling, no supporting data.

We actually have some compiled stats for street for PNW for Portland, Vancouver and Salem area from this year:
Accident stats

We originally had track accidents included but so many people protested (even that they shouldn't be called accidents - I don't see why not) that we pulled those out.

And besides our post - which is specific only to PNWR and our region - there are publicly available statistics for street accidents - I believe ODOT has some for example. So yes, there is public info on that.

Somehow I suspect that track organizations do not want to release any data relating to track accidents. Just like hospitals don't like to release numbers relating to hospital deaths.

richardlpalmer · 11-09-2009, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by lena

Well, I am still puzzled that there aren't any statistics for track. It would be very interesting to compare injured vs fatalities and street vs track. I understand how you all feel but still - it's just a feeling, no supporting data.

We actually have some compiled stats for street for PNW for Portland, Vancouver and Salem area from this year:
Accident stats

We originally had track accidents included but so many people protested (even that they shouldn't be called accidents - I don't see why not) that we pulled those out.

And besides our post - which is specific only to PNWR and our region - there are publicly available statistics for street accidents - I believe ODOT has some for example. So yes, there is public info on that.

Somehow I suspect that track organizations do not want to release any data relating to track accidents. Just like hospitals don't like to release numbers relating to hospital deaths.

I doubt they'd care, honestly.

PeteN95 · 11-09-2009, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by lena

This is interesting. And for all of you track junkies, I am sure this will be a can of worms ... But if track is so much safer than street (and god forbid I am not saying it isn't before I get lynched) then why the hell are there no statistics supporting that? There should be a ton!

Because it is apples and oranges, there are few direct comparisons. Virtually all people riding on the track are exploring performance limits, their's or the bikes. A very small percentage of people riding on the street are exploring performance limits. On the street you have many variables, unknown corners, road conditions, traffic, animals, impaired drivers/riders, variable amounts of safety gear, a narrow roadway, and variable run off. On the track, for the most part, these do not exist. It would be very difficult, if not impossible, to make a useful comparison of statistics from road and track.

the chemist · 11-09-2009, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by lena

I understand how you all feel but still - it's just a feeling, no supporting data.

Like I said, one guy died racing WERA last year (200

.

I believe the last person to pass away racing with WMRRA was when they added the bus stop. Someone that knows their history better can confirm that or not. If so, it was a LOOOOOOOONG time ago. And Pacific isn't exactly the safest track...

So, when was the last time a rider on the street died? Exactly. Its not just a feeling. Its a fact, regardless of the data.


11-06-2009, 11:24 AM	#2
odin544 Superbiker Joined: Apr 2007 From: Kennewick, Washington I Ride: '08 Ducati 848 street , '03 R6 race (for sale), '07 R6 race	I know a CR can take a passenger at some trackdays. Stats? Have her look at all the RIP threads on here. Show me one that happens on the track. You have medical staff with you way quicker at the track if something happens. On the street you get to wait...... __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-06-2009, 11:27 AM	#3
Swanny Training Wheels Joined: Aug 2009 From: Renton, WA I Ride: R1100S,R75/5,K12RS,V65 Sabre	You are always safer at the track. And the track makes you safer on the road. No stat's to provide...but I know there's an ambulance and help at the ready there vs. on the side of a mountain or buried in the woods. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-06-2009, 11:29 AM	#4
dragracer1951 MotoGP Champion Joined: Sep 2005 From: Bremerton I Ride: 03 Are See fiddy one, 05 DRZ400SM, 95 FZR1040, 69 Combat Commando Roadster, 73 Commando Interstate, 67 BSA B44, 71 BSA B50	00000 No traffic pulling out in front of you. Generally like riders grouped together. Lots of run off incase of a little oopsie. Medical staff on hand Great training. What's not to like? __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-06-2009, 11:31 AM	#5
NoQuarter#121 Zone Head Joined: Sep 2007 From: 2nd star to the right and straight on 'til morning I Ride: on ice at 15F below zero	Stats are not kept. BUT! In my years of sportriding, road racing, cruiser riding and off road riding all of the deaths of my personal friends have been on street legal bikes on the road. And I have lost a few. RIP. Of course there can be issues on the track, after crashes or oilings, but these things are usually caught pretty quick and dealt with. Tracks are high speed sure, But the track is way safer than the street in my opinion. no trafffic maiking left turns across your lane No cell phones or distracted drivers no blind unknown corners no gravel no oil spots no animals and Everyone on bikes Everyone going the same direction corner workers emt or paramedics on site with very quick response etc... etc.. etc... __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-06-2009, 11:37 AM	#6
Saber63 Pit Crew Joined: Aug 2007 From: Tenino, WA I Ride: like a newb	as much fun as i think it would be to be on the back of a CR's bike, im SURE she wouldnt lol. but i figure if she wants to see for her self how safe it is without having to drive herself... maybe that'ed work. as for the RIP threads, it makes me very sad... but i think it might work... i think thre might have been one or maybe 2 RIP threads in the track section... but of course shell argue its because its based on volume/milage... etc... and what about non fatal injurys? etc.... hense why a nice stats page would be nice lol, and then i dont have to look at all the RIP pages :( im thinking it'll turn into a big fight, unless i can get HER to WANT to go to the track... but every amount of ammo helps in a fight lol. thanks man! what really blows my mind is i went to track after having a low speed street wreck, and shes more worried about the track then I5 in the dark and wet :wtf: -Levi holy shit 3 more posts while i replied! lol, thank you very much for all the info! i know ther alot of guys who dont ride the street anymore, due to lossing so many friends/ getting hurt themselfs etc.... __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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11-06-2009, 10:29 AM	#1
Saber63 Pit Crew Joined: Aug 2007 From: Tenino, WA I Ride: like a newb	safety stats for racing or track days Hey i was wondering if NESBA, 2-fast, WMRRA, OMRRA or any other track based motorcycle groups had saftey stats. im trying to convince my fiancee that track days and racing are a safe way for one to get out and have fun(compared to stuff like advanced down hill sking and MT biking). she didn't like my first track day very much,(and i didnt even have any close calls) but she still thinks that me do 150 down the front of PR was to scary and dangerous. but im starting to come to grips with the fact that im addicted to the track after one hit... and need to go back second thing, any events let you take passangers?(with proper gear of course) :D Thanks guys! -Levi __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-06-2009, 11:46 AM	#7
InvisibleMan Pit Crew Joined: Feb 2009 From: Seattle WA I Ride: 2004 ZX10R, 2001 GSXR 1000	I have been to Adrenaline Freaks and seen some people doing two-up laps. http://studio819.smugmug.com/Adrenal...38107175_tZoJb Seen it at 2-Fast also. It's only done in the beginner class, for obvious reasons. It might put her at ease or it might not. It's kinda funny how non-riders think that doing 150mph in a straight line is the dangerous part? Must be the ol 'speed kills' mentality, eh? The braking and turns are where most of the wrecks seem to occur. If she's OK with you riding on the road then, it doesn't make much sense to worry about you in a totally controlled environment at the track. It's all about risk vs reward though. I tell ya, I have been hurt worse and more frequently over the years on my mtn bikes than on my motorcycles. I'd get rid of everything else before I'd get rid of one of my motorcycles. The best thing about track days is that there are no brain-dead cagers out there that are trying to kill you, debris/spills get cleaned up before the track goes green again and you get to use the whole road instead of half. She should be more worried about you eating fast food than doing something active that you truly enjoy? If she wants statistics, tell her to look at the statistics on chronic obesity in this country. Eating is more dangerous than motorcycles! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-06-2009, 11:59 AM	#8
dragracer1951 MotoGP Champion Joined: Sep 2005 From: Bremerton I Ride: 03 Are See fiddy one, 05 DRZ400SM, 95 FZR1040, 69 Combat Commando Roadster, 73 Commando Interstate, 67 BSA B44, 71 BSA B50	Here's something else to think about. My wife dosen't participate in everything I do. Just as I don't participate in all of her activities. What we DO do though is support each other. She knows I know what I'm doing. She knows I ride and why...she supports it. Dosen't necessarily LIKE it...but supports it. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-06-2009, 12:34 PM	#9
evil_dave Zone Head Joined: Apr 2007 From: Mukilteo, WA I Ride: with a kneedown on my Assault Bike.	I have a stat for you: Half of all mariages end in divorce. Teach her how to use a rear stand for you when you come in off the track. If she gets it, she's a keeper. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-06-2009, 12:47 PM	#11
SMOKE WMRRA Qualifier Joined: Apr 2008 From: Beaverton, OR I Ride: Like an old Fart:)	Stat on me: In the past 15 years I've crashed 3 times on street and none on the track (knock on wood) also none after riding the track. You'll love it!! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-06-2009, 01:48 PM	#12
odin544 Superbiker Joined: Apr 2007 From: Kennewick, Washington I Ride: '08 Ducati 848 street , '03 R6 race (for sale), '07 R6 race	I've crashed twice. once on the street once on the track. Street: Had a semi truck turn left in front of me. Ended up on life support for a month in an induced coma Tore both coratid arteries Tore Aorta (had to have open heart bypass) Broken collar bone (6 spots) Broken shoulder blade Dislocated left shoulder 7 broken ribs Punctured and collapsed left lung (right lung later collapsed) Ruptured spleen (Had splenectomy to remove) Lacerated liver Torn left quad followed with 6 months of hell to learn to walk again and wipe my own ass. I could go on and on and on about it. On the track: Lowside into T5 at PR I scratched my plastics I bent my shift lever I scuffed my leathers The worst part of it all was cleaning all the dirt/mud off my leathers Sign me up for the track! BTW if was actually pretty fun sliding on the pavement like I did. I always wanted to do it like I've always seen on TV. Slide down the pavement, hands and feet out. I had to remember to wait till I came to a full stop until I tried to stand up though __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-06-2009, 02:07 PM	#13
Saber63 Pit Crew Joined: Aug 2007 From: Tenino, WA I Ride: like a newb	thank you so much guys, im not sure if it wil be enough, but im willing to give it a shoot! lol when i wrecked on the street i to had fun, i low sided in the wet when someone cut me off, so i slid on my ass, got a bruise, and watched my bike get totaled... until i relised that 5 difrent cars almsot ran me over, and had i not low sided i would have gone off the over pass into the freway. even though ive bought a new bike... ive hardly riden sense my track day... (did that about 5 months after my wreck) mostly cause the risks are so much higher!!! one more question... should i talk to her about it now? or wait till its track season again? thanks guys! -Levi __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-07-2009, 01:30 PM	#18
MoDub Training Wheels Joined: Aug 2008 From: Bellevue I Ride: GSXR 750 and R6	Woman's perpective? If she doesn't like it, she doesn't have to come watch it. There are PLENTY of folks I see at the track whose wives, girlfriends, boyfriends don't come out. Do the wives LIKE that their husbands are out there? Maybe not... Are they going to be supportive because girlfriend/fiance/wife does not equal dictator? Of course! It's dangerous but there are PLENTY of very smart, mature, supportive women who support their mate's passion and stay calm when the bike comes back in pieces. Of course they can be worried but it is what it is. Why such drama? I am a skier and I don't expect my boyfriend to come to the ski area and sit in the lodge while I am out skiing. Your fiance doesn't need to come watch if it makes her uneasy. Out of sight, out of mind. My dad watches me race. My dad's wife won't come NEAR the track if I am on it. It freaks her out too much but she is happy to support from afar. I think turning it into a Dr Phil moment seems a bit silly. Tell her you love it and that you would hope she would support it. If she isn't going to. Do it anyway. HA! Monica wow. read through this and realize now there may be a reason I am not married. haha! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter Last edited by MoDub; 11-07-2009 at 01:33 PM..


11-07-2009, 01:37 PM	#19
MoDub Training Wheels Joined: Aug 2008 From: Bellevue I Ride: GSXR 750 and R6	On another note, I don't think there is a way to convince her it is safer than skiing and mountain biking. Based on my personal experience (raced cross country mtb and big mountain skier since I was 15,) it probably isn't. It's a dangerous sport but definitely safer than anything else you can do on a motorcycle... I think... \ my 2 cents. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-07-2009, 03:35 PM	#20
Essvar ghetto-fabulous Joined: Jun 2006 From: MetheadsStealYourStuff, OR I Ride: Sticky Rubbers	I actively participate in all of your aforementioned sports... the ONLY one I haven't been hurt doing is racing motorcycles The last girl I was with didn't care about the high speeds but she did say "It scared me when you were passing that guy and your bike started to get real loud"... But I met her Ski racing so she may be an exception to the rule. And Monica the only reason you are still single is because Brad "Factory" DeLong isn't 18.... yet __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-07-2009, 07:03 PM	#21
dakh Superbiker Joined: Sep 2007 From: Seattle, WA I Ride: the walk	I've done my share of tree dodging and cliff dropping on a snowboard and IMHO it's quite a bit safer than track riding. Mountain biking, probably will get more small injuries on a push bike compared to more rare but more serious on a motorbike. Riding/racing supermoto seems to be the same kind of tradeoff, more smaller injuries vs. less but more serious ones, so might consider that. I'll pile up with everyone on the point that if she's expecting to decide for you if you're gonna ride on the track or not, you've got bigger problems to deal with. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-07-2009, 10:26 PM	#22
Saber63 Pit Crew Joined: Aug 2007 From: Tenino, WA I Ride: like a newb	Thanks everyone!!! to clear a few things up, at first whe told me never to go back(the day of) but awhile later she told me i could go, but it would make her feel like shit, so technicaly i could have gone all summer long. but i do love her very much and i dont like seeing her feel shitty. however today we had a nice little chit chat about how im an adrenline junky speed freak, (she was wondering why we stoped at a MC shop to look at dirt bikes and trade in my street bike LOL ) after explaining that to hear, she kinda was quite for awhile and asked me if i took my car to the track if she could ride passanger shes a keeper! while she is senstive about somethings, shes gotta be the best girl ive ever meet! and i do thank everyone for there ideas and help, i used alot of the info you guys posted up! i think it really helped her understand better, and just an FYI im pretty sure there have been more sking deaths in the PNW then deaths from riding a motorcyle on a track... so i might not be out there the first few track days, but im pretty damn sure ill get atleast one in __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-08-2009, 03:54 PM	#25
lena Moderator Joined: Aug 2007 From: Portland, OR I Ride: Monster 750	This is interesting. And for all of you track junkies, I am sure this will be a can of worms ... But if track is so much safer than street (and god forbid I am not saying it isn't before I get lynched) then why the hell are there no statistics supporting that? There should be a ton! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-08-2009, 07:36 PM	#27
02XXCA Streetfighter Joined: Nov 2005 From: Lynnwood, WA I Ride: 02 CBR1100XX(Touring), 01 GSX-R750 (trackbike), Piaggio MP3 400cc (Commuter)	With over 100,000 miles on the street over the last 7 years and having lost 6 close friends to street riding in the same period has made my wife prefer me riding on the track. My first crash happened on the track this year at close to 60 MPH and I was able to limp away. It did, re-enforce my belief that the track is much safer for flat out riding. My wife was not very supportive having to come pick me up from the ER from an emotional standpoint, but I hope she will get over it. I guess watching your love one participate in a dangerous sport may be hard to deal with for some spouses. My family definately does not get it, but riding is something I love to do and an accident is not going to change my mind. I will learn and move on and not live some protective life for no one. Some might call it selfish, but I call it living! __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-08-2009, 10:12 PM	#30
courier11sec Streetfighter Joined: Sep 2008 From: bellingham, WA I Ride: 2006 dr z400s, 1979 Suzuki GS750 (about to be 1000cc), 1965 Honda CL160 (racer)	I believe ANY safety statistic resets on an individual basis. If you practice good safety measures and can control yourself rather than try to ride above your skill level, it seems like there is no safer place to ride than a track. That said, I've never had a track day, but I have a feeling the risk of being cut off by a minivan or merged into by a semi decreases drastically on a racetrack. Personally that stuff scares me a lot more than learning to ride fast and smooth. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-08-2009, 10:14 PM	#31
evil_dave Zone Head Joined: Apr 2007 From: Mukilteo, WA I Ride: with a kneedown on my Assault Bike.	Within my own financial boundries, I try to live each day like it's my last. I'm a cancer survivor. I'm living on borrowed time... aren't we all...? I have never crashed on the street. I have 5 crashes on the track. In one of those crashes I was knocked out for 30 minutes after a spill in T2 at Pacific, woke up in the ambulance 5 minutes from the hospital with complete amnesia. Destroyed my left collar bone in T3. I have no regrets. For some of us, "risk" or "danger" are registered in the "pleasure" centers of our brains. We are not so easily entertained as other mere mortals. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-08-2009, 10:20 PM	#32
dakh Superbiker Joined: Sep 2007 From: Seattle, WA I Ride: the walk	Completely off topic, but Dave, you should try PGP/Sumo, I think it'll fit you well and you sure will fit with the crew. It's a bit spastic lately due to weather but you're more than welcome to take my bike out for a spin. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-09-2009, 07:51 AM	#33
dwschultzy Superbiker Joined: Nov 2007 From: auburn Blog Entries: 2 I Ride: CBR	imho...you have bigger problems than riding on the track good luck __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter


11-09-2009, 08:37 AM	#37
lena Moderator Joined: Aug 2007 From: Portland, OR I Ride: Monster 750	Well, I am still puzzled that there aren't any statistics for track. It would be very interesting to compare injured vs fatalities and street vs track. I understand how you all feel but still - it's just a feeling, no supporting data. We actually have some compiled stats for street for PNW for Portland, Vancouver and Salem area from this year: Accident stats We originally had track accidents included but so many people protested (even that they shouldn't be called accidents - I don't see why not) that we pulled those out. And besides our post - which is specific only to PNWR and our region - there are publicly available statistics for street accidents - I believe ODOT has some for example. So yes, there is public info on that. Somehow I suspect that track organizations do not want to release any data relating to track accidents. Just like hospitals don't like to release numbers relating to hospital deaths. __________________ Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

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