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Old 10-04-2012, 09:55 AM   #21
sctnabt
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Joined: Mar 2006
From: Genesee, Idaho

I Ride: 'till I crash
The answer is there. Same denial with your injuries. Too hard, too fast, too soon. Easy peasy.

Get some emulators/cartridges, have your suspension set up, add warmers and race DOT's.

You just don't have the kung foo grip.

cj

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Last edited by cjohns; 10-04-2012 at 10:05 AM..
 

Old 10-04-2012, 10:12 AM   #22
Railer
FZ6Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
From: Wilsonville, OR

I Ride: S1000RR & Track R6
I have second gen FZ1 and rode few track days on it. It works on the track but only if you dont have sports bike.
I was there when you crashed and passed you hour earlier. Glad you learned something, we all make mistakes and I have yet to meet the superman


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Old 10-04-2012, 11:22 AM   #23
Peg Dragger
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Joined: Mar 2008
From: Poulsbo, WA

I Ride: 1290 SDR, WR250X, SV650
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Avboden View Post
Sounds like it's time for a more capable track bike than an FZ1.

I highly doubt your slider caused the crash, the lean angle needed for that would be absurd, your front tire would let go well before that (as it did!).
The FZ is plenty track capable. Plenty..... As for the slider, I banged the frame of my FZ1 off the pavement in 3 at Pacific, so the frame slider is definitely doable.

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Old 10-04-2012, 11:49 AM   #24
Shredder
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Joined: Apr 2011
From: Seattle, WA

I Ride: for OPRT
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by CBR Dave Ingraham View Post
Craig dude glad to hear you say you will be back, at your age that is a huge statement. I have rubed my frame slider on a cbr, turn 4 ccw orp, so I know it can happen, the bike didnt like it but there was room to stand it up instead of down. Tires and warmers are a must. I'm going to say that I put some Q2s on my TUONO for the street and they are awesome. I know how fast you are and no mater what lap it is Q2s SUCK for the track. I have seen numerous riders down this year with them, step up to GPAs. You are track riding, ride a track tire. Hope to see you out there next season
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by CBR Dave Ingraham View Post
The gp,s are the best but I wouldnt run them on the street, you wouldnt believe how hard I can break with them, Im on my 10th track day on a front and its stil good, 4 of the days were 95deg. They arent cheep. The GPAs are a little cheeper and far better than Q2s, just my opinion and you know how thar goes, good to hear from you and hope your wife is taking it in stride. Dave
Solid advice from Dave for sure.

“ Quote:
Originally Posted by cjohns View Post
The answer is there. Same denial with your injuries. Too hard, too fast, too soon. Easy peasy.

Get some emulators/cartridges, have your suspension set up, add warmers and race DOT's.

You just don't have the kung foo grip.

cj
If you are scratching your head about why you crashed it's going to happen again. Some where in here there was rider error involved. It's up to you to analyze what you remember and what you can re-create from walking the scene of the crash to figure out what you can do different to prevent it from happening again. Like it or not, crashing is part of our sport. If you don't use that as a learning tool when it happens you aren't doing yourself justice.

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Old 10-08-2012, 04:59 PM   #25
Pit Crew
Ballistic's Avatar
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Joined: Aug 2005
From: Spokane

I Ride: Yamaha FZ1, 08 gsxr 1000 trackbike
Comments
Hey,

I really appreciate the comments and suggestions to my story. Nice picture too! I really want to learn and not repeat this kind of mistake/crash--I think that all comments have interesting elements. I sure do not claim to be clairvoyant rider or anything. I probably just out ran my tire temp or my setup. It has been a difficult month of recovery so far, I have multiple titanium screws and stuff in my left thumb and my right ribs still hurt (that right busted one is still talking to me too)---sucks to be old! My recommendation would be to get all your crashing done b/4 you are 59 years old. haha. I am having a good day today, hope tomorrow is good too---has been up and down. I would like to ride again at the track---but if it happens, it will be on a different more dedicated bike---if it happens at all. It has been a marvelous 44 years of riding----with some owies---the last being the worst---but, riding fast and good is the ultimate rush in my life and the ultimate pain. Go figure.

Craig

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Old 10-08-2012, 05:52 PM   #26
Railer
residentcourt1's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
From: Spokane, WA

I Ride: '12 YZ450F, '09 ZX-6R(race), '10 NINJA 250R (race)
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Buick_65 View Post
The FZ is plenty track capable. Plenty..... As for the slider, I banged the frame of my FZ1 off the pavement in 3 at Pacific, so the frame slider is definitely doable.
Yes, you can ride the FZ on the track, but why? theyre heavy as hell

“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballistic View Post
Maybe something like that, or maybe my luck/skill ran out--or outrode what my bike could really do. Wish I had the answer to know for sure.

Craig
The answer comes in 600cc and 750cc

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Old 10-08-2012, 05:59 PM   #27
Pit Crew
Ballistic's Avatar
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Joined: Aug 2005
From: Spokane

I Ride: Yamaha FZ1, 08 gsxr 1000 trackbike
Healing up
Malcolm,

I suspect, if I heal up ok. I will be there on something like you suggest. Might want to keep upping your game to stay with the old guy. haha

Craig

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Old 10-15-2012, 07:10 PM   #28
Licensed
cord4530's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
From: Moscow, ID

I Ride: more often than I floss.
There are a lot of great, inexpensive bikes that are absolutely fantastic on the track. You can pick up 03+ R6's that are already track/race ready for under $3k. If you don't want the high top speeds, get yourself a SV650. They're a dime a dozen, and really quite forgiving. If you don't like the suspension on them, get a GSXR front end and a good rear shock. Honestly, even the one track day I did on a newgen Ninja 250R was a riot. I was down in the C group with tons of people to pass despite only having 30 hp to work with, and I'm sure I never made it much past 100 mph.
-Dan

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Old 10-24-2012, 08:07 PM   #29
Miss PNW Riders 2007
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Joined: Aug 2006
From: Kennewick

I Ride: a born again SV!! CBR track bike
OUch!!! Hope you have a speedy recovery and look forward to seeing you at Spokane next year!

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Old 10-26-2012, 12:50 PM   #30
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Ballistic's Avatar
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Joined: Aug 2005
From: Spokane

I Ride: Yamaha FZ1, 08 gsxr 1000 trackbike
badkitty
[IMG][/IMG]

Thanks for the get well wishes, I am improving and hope to be back to near 100% by the time riding time comes again. Hope to see you at the track. I may have to do some more "Ridge" time to quell the crash demons. My ribs are much better, my left thumb is still a work in progress but I think it will be fine for riding after some more physical therapy and healing time. Need to heal up some more to just be able to repair my bike and/or try out something new that might propel me better at the track. But, then again, it is fun passing people while driving a fast truck.

Craig

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Old 10-26-2012, 01:34 PM   #31
snowshoe kitten... prrr...
yard sale's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
From: 4to5
Blog Entries: 7

I Ride: slow in the fast lane like everyone else...
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by gannonjf View Post
Solid advice from Dave for sure.
without warmers this is the worst advice to give a guy that goes 110% on his out lap.

my experience with Q2's is that they're a perfectly capable track day tire. If the bike is still seeing street duty i'd suggest sticking with a street tire and the Q2 is a fine street tire.

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Old 10-26-2012, 04:32 PM   #32
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Ballistic's Avatar
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Joined: Aug 2005
From: Spokane

I Ride: Yamaha FZ1, 08 gsxr 1000 trackbike
110%
I think it might be mathematically impossible to go 110% at anything. But, as a matter of conversation, I have never had any sensation of slip after even a half of lap on Q2s when running hard from the start, they seem to heat up fast and stick good. I think with my first track accident, it was either just too hard of trail braking going down the hill thru the corner entrance and/or like I postulated earlier, my relatively low mounted frame slider might have touched down and lifted my last 10% of traction from my front tire.

I have ridden many loaned racebikes with slicks and accidentally locked at least one of them up, braking hard into corners, --but--I felt it coming and was able to release and re-apply without biffing it. Whatever happened to me on Sept 8th---did not feel like anything I had ever experienced----just BAM---on pavement. Was not even aware I had crashed for a couple of seconds. Trust me, I have crashed dirtbikes, streetbikes and now on the track and this was a very different deal. That is what makes me think the frame slider or some totally different scenario, as I have never had a so totally no warning loss of traction on dry pavement b/4 and been on the ground b/4 I even knew what happened.

I have ridden with Q2s for over 2 years and after practicing with them with tire pressures abit, have always gone out hard on first lap---never a slip, squirm or whatever---till this face plant---something different happened. That is my story and I am sticking to it.

Craig

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Old 10-26-2012, 10:12 PM   #33
Miss PNW Riders 2007
BadKitty's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
From: Kennewick

I Ride: a born again SV!! CBR track bike
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballistic View Post
[IMG][/IMG]

Thanks for the get well wishes, I am improving and hope to be back to near 100% by the time riding time comes again. Hope to see you at the track. I may have to do some more "Ridge" time to quell the crash demons. My ribs are much better, my left thumb is still a work in progress but I think it will be fine for riding after some more physical therapy and healing time. Need to heal up some more to just be able to repair my bike and/or try out something new that might propel me better at the track. But, then again, it is fun passing people while driving a fast truck.

Craig


you're welcome and Im glad to hear you're on the mend!

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Old 10-27-2012, 08:09 AM   #34
MotoGP Contender
fastfoodfred's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
From: spokane, wa

I Ride: 2013 Gasgas 300xc w/lic plate + 1985 RZ350 + 2010 YZ250F +
Broken ribs are awesome! They hurt every day until the day they stop, like a light switch. Get better and then get an SM!

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Old 10-30-2012, 04:00 PM   #35
Endorsed
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Joined: Sep 2007
From: Oregon
Did this happen to be at the PSSR weekend in September?

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Old 10-31-2012, 07:28 PM   #36
Shredder
Twisties4me's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
From: Banks, Or.

I Ride: U ride?
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballistic View Post
but on the second session I bolted and ran first the first lap and ended up around 6th at the end of the session ---but "who is countin?" haha, me. Probably the best I have ever ridden on pavement, period. Hmmmm, can you guess what is coming? Third session I bolted, but someone with slicks and tire warmers beat me to turn one, two, three, four, five and coming off the carousel I was hauling bootie and down the hill and

Titanium Craig
Ouch! Sorry for the get off, that sucks.

Really sounds like you should go racing. Trying to keep track of "ending up in 6th" at the end of any track day session is asking for trouble. Wrong mindset for a track day for sure. There is no real point of reference as to how fast your fast really is.

Bolting and running first for the first lap isn't a good thing at a track day. There might a reason the other guys are taking it easy for a lap or two. Letting your tires, engine, brakes and MIND get up to temp is a good thing. Saves lots of pain and money.

Remember you had mostly all left turns, not much right at all yet. If I have where you went down correct you bounced on the first real right under hard brakes. Right side of the tire still cold. Cold tires under stress just say NO! They are still sleepy and don't bother to tell you they are not liking what you are asking of em.

Heal up!

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Old 11-01-2012, 03:30 PM   #37
Pit Crew
Ballistic's Avatar
OP
 
Joined: Aug 2005
From: Spokane

I Ride: Yamaha FZ1, 08 gsxr 1000 trackbike
twisties for me et al
Probably pretty good analysis, professor! I thought the same thoughts later about the first hard right hand turn, so your theory seems very plausible. The only reason I was going out so hard on the opening lap----was for fun! Worked for a couple years+ with the rapid heating of the Q2s and Pirellis I used to run, but maybe I outran them in this accident. Short of being the second coming of John Lippis, I don't think racing is in my future----you need to be able to absorb a blow of a crash better than I did, so you can learn and go on. In that vein, just to show how much I am maturing in the last couple months---off work due to the thumb broke and rib, I am buying a 08 gsxr 1000 as of tonight, to tone it down abit. I figure it will handle better than my 02 FZ1 and I will be relieved of the worry of not staying up or catching up on the ensuing straight stretches with riders I can stay with in the corners. Going fast and faster, it is a disease. One that many people, probably incorrectly, compliment you for, encouraging the disease progression. Oh, well---it was a good crash free run for almost 10 years of track days---got the privilege of riding some other peeps bikes that were way better than mine---and scared myself silly but hit speeds I only dreamed of before. This 08 gxxr is piped and tuned and supposedly is really quick----I plan on trying it out gently in the C then B power modes and hope that is enough to placate me without any highsides---we will see. I really wanted to go with a 750, but just could not seem to find the deal I wanted, this one is righteous. Right now I am just trying to heal up 6 weeks post thumb surgery and get back to work and hope I feel up to doing some more trackdays and hopefully learn from the last experience. I appreciate everyone's comments and feedback, one can never learn enough. Riding on the track is a rush that is hard to equal in any sport or endeavor, IMO. Hope to see everyone at the Ridge next year and plan on doing my best to not mess up the A group with any more get-offs. Maybe it is as they say. Pride cometh before a fall.

CB

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Old 11-01-2012, 08:04 PM   #38
Railer
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Joined: Mar 2010
From: Spokane, WA

I Ride: '12 YZ450F, '09 ZX-6R(race), '10 NINJA 250R (race)
Don't die on that gixxer 1000. I'll feel guilty for finding you such a kick ass deal lol

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Old 11-01-2012, 09:13 PM   #39
Pit Crew
Ballistic's Avatar
OP
 
Joined: Aug 2005
From: Spokane

I Ride: Yamaha FZ1, 08 gsxr 1000 trackbike
Deal
Yeah, Malcolm, it WILL be all your fault if I go meet my Maker on the gsxr you found for me. I think I am like most people, rather quietly go in my sleep than flying off a sportbike or a mountain or something. It will be interesting to see how the different power band modes, A, B, C feel on the track. I plan on learning how that works and suspension setup, very carefully. Actually, I think you are just trying to off your local competition at trackdays.

Craig

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Old 11-01-2012, 11:02 PM   #40
Licensed
dammyneckhurts's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
From: Whistler BC
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisties4me View Post
Ouch! Sorry for the get off, that sucks.

Really sounds like you should go racing. Trying to keep track of "ending up in 6th" at the end of any track day session is asking for trouble. Wrong mindset for a track day for sure. There is no real point of reference as to how fast your fast really is.

Bolting and running first for the first lap isn't a good thing at a track day. There might a reason the other guys are taking it easy for a lap or two. Letting your tires, engine, brakes and MIND get up to temp is a good thing. Saves lots of pain and money.

Remember you had mostly all left turns, not much right at all yet. If I have where you went down correct you bounced on the first real right under hard brakes. Right side of the tire still cold. Cold tires under stress just say NO! They are still sleepy and don't bother to tell you they are not liking what you are asking of em.

Heal up!
This.

What was the temperature? Sunny or overcast? Was you bike parked in the sun or under an easy-up in the shade?

Yes you need to go hard on out lap to warm up tires, but do the hard braking/hard acceleration when the bike is more straight up and down. On the second lap add a bit more trail brake and earlier throttle, then add more again on third lap.

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Last edited by dammyneckhurts; 11-01-2012 at 11:05 PM..
 
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