Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-17-2012, 06:47 PM   #1
Endorsed
fattiremike's Avatar
OP
 
Joined: Oct 2009
From: Olympia, WA

I Ride: 2007 RWB VFR800, 2005 CBR 600rr Trackbike
Tire opinions from 2012?
So, I am wondering what tires that you guys ran last year, and your opinions of them? I ran Dunlop UK Ntecs, 6838 rear, and 6680 front. They lasted 12 track days on my 600, but I found them to be too hard, and rather slippery before lunch, and they did not really become sticky until later in the day. I am not sure what tire to run for next year, although I am really leaning towards the UK Ntecs in the 7704 compound. I am curious of other peoples experience with the Pirelli's or the US Ntecs, or what-have-you? Thanks.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 

Old 11-17-2012, 11:00 PM   #2
Racer Extraordinaire
theJrod's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
From: Marysville, WA

I Ride: w/ Optimum Performance Rider Training
Your experience with them feeling slippery is probably just because they're shot (12 track days!!), and need to be replaced. That, or you're running the wrong pressures, or you have some work to do on setup. The different compounds are for different conditions. Don't swap just because you want them to be a little less slippery.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 11-17-2012, 11:31 PM   #3
Novice Racer
SiCC's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
From: HighBridge Snohomish, WA

I Ride: GSXR600,DRZsm
i ran pirelli sc0/1 fronts and sc1/2 rears all last season. the fronts hold up for a while, the rears lasted a race weekend plus a few track days. i like the performance of these tires very much but the longevity of the rear tire sucks and i am not made of money. i will be trying dunops next year to hopefully save some cash. for perspective i run low 30's at pacific and low 50's at the ridge.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 11-18-2012, 08:33 AM   #4
Endorsed
fattiremike's Avatar
OP
 
Joined: Oct 2009
From: Olympia, WA

I Ride: 2007 RWB VFR800, 2005 CBR 600rr Trackbike
“ Quote:
Your experience with them feeling slippery is probably just because they're shot (12 track days!!), and need to be replaced.
That is why I love UK Ntecs so much, they are very consistent, throughout their whole lifespan, from new to darn-near-bald! I think I would have just done better with a medium compound.


“ Quote:
That, or you're running the wrong pressures, or you have some work to do on setup.
I have the pressures dialed, 21 rear, 32 front, hot off the warmers. However, the suspension never seemed predictable, so I finally took it to Barry and they found two pages worth of shot valves, worn bushings, missing pieces, and the spring rates were wrong too. Valid point.

“ Quote:
The different compounds are for different conditions. Don't swap just because you want them to be a little less slippery.
True, but I am not made of money. So, I want to pick a tire that will grip well in most conditions and last pretty well.

“ Quote:
i ran pirelli sc0/1 fronts and sc1/2 rears all last season. the fronts hold up for a while, the rears lasted a race weekend plus a few track days. i like the performance of these tires very much but the longevity of the rear tire sucks
That's pretty much what I have heard from others.

“ Quote:
for perspective i run low 30's at pacific and low 50's at the ridge.
Thanks for that. I am mid 30's at PR and mid 50's at the ridge.

Anyone run the GP-A US Ntecs last year? I am really curious to their longevity.

Thanks for the replies.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 11-18-2012, 09:57 AM   #5
Peg Dragger
stevieb's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
From: Seattle, WA
For track days: Q2's... seriously they are that good. If you have the cash to blow on race tires for track days then so be it. Unless practicing before a race weekend, i'll be rockin the Q2's all next season.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 11-18-2012, 10:14 AM   #6
Peg Dragger
stevieb's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
From: Seattle, WA
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by fattiremike View Post

Anyone run the GP-A US Ntecs last year? I am really curious to their longevity.
And YES, I ran one of the later US compound 8477 which I think was introduced in Jersey this past year. I only got to run it for practice and two Sunday superbike races at the end of the season. Liked it very much and it looks like new after two full races.

Mike - If you are stuck on race rubber, why not slicks? You will get more life out of them for sure.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

Last edited by stevieb; 11-18-2012 at 10:16 AM..
 
Old 11-18-2012, 11:23 AM   #7
Endorsed
fattiremike's Avatar
OP
 
Joined: Oct 2009
From: Olympia, WA

I Ride: 2007 RWB VFR800, 2005 CBR 600rr Trackbike
“ Quote:
For track days: Q2's... seriously they are that good.
Yeah, I did the Pridmore days, and they were all on Q2's. I was impressed, especially on the 2-up ride with Jason. It really showed what a skilled rider could do with a properly set up bike, EVEN on super-street rubber. JP stated that he could not believe the Q2's grip, either.

“ Quote:
If you are stuck on race rubber, why not slicks? You will get more life out of them for sure.
Honestly, because Barry set me up on UK Ntecs when I first started doing track days, and I am resistant to change, I guess! However, they are now $508.00 a set, and that hurts the pocketbook. I am looking for a good alternative.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 11-18-2012, 12:58 PM   #8
Racer Extraordinaire
theJrod's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
From: Marysville, WA

I Ride: w/ Optimum Performance Rider Training
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by fattiremike View Post
True, but I am not made of money. So, I want to pick a tire that will grip well in most conditions and last pretty well.
Then do not switch to the 7704/7712. The 6680/6838 is the Med+. The 7704 is the Soft/Med.
You'll tear the crap out of a 7704 if the temp is below 70, and it only has marginally more grip. The 6*** rear will last much longer overall.

Honestly I think there's something else going on if your issue is they feel slippery. There isn't a better tire out there, only trade-offs. The Pirelli SC1 will give you the same grip as a 7704 at a significantly lower price, but neither the Pirelli SC1 nor the 7704 will last as long as the 6680/6838. How's your throttle hand? Do you have a prominent "wear band" about 1.5-2" from the edge?

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 11-18-2012, 02:15 PM   #9
Licensed
dammyneckhurts's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
From: Whistler BC
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by theJrod View Post
Then do not switch to the 7704/7712. The 6680/6838 is the Med+. The 7704 is the Soft/Med.
You'll tear the crap out of a 7704 if the temp is below 70, and it only has marginally more grip. The 6*** rear will last much longer overall.

Honestly I think there's something else going on if your issue is they feel slippery. There isn't a better tire out there, only trade-offs. The Pirelli SC1 will give you the same grip as a 7704 at a significantly lower price, but neither the Pirelli SC1 nor the 7704 will last as long as the 6680/6838. How's your throttle hand? Do you have a prominent "wear band" about 1.5-2" from the edge?
I dunno.... to the OP: When you go to the softer tire it starts to depend on which track you are using them at and the pace you care carrying. If you got 12 days out of the harder compounds you are probably safe to try a softer one without immediately destroying it. For sure no problem with the softer front, a softer rear will hold up no problem at ORP, but it doesn't do so well at T-Hill. For me at the Ridge the soft UK Ntec front starts to tear when I get below 1:44 on a 750.... anything slower than that the soft front held up just fine.

My suggestion would be to go with a softer UK front for any track, and stick with the 6838 rear for T-Hill, try the 7712 rear at ORP and The Ridge.

If your bike feels vague it may well be a set up issue, and can also be a technique issue. If you are doing mid 50's at The Ridge you are probably not not trailing the brakes much... that would contribute to the lack of feedback and feel from the front tire. Also if you have too much tension and weight carried in your arms and not enough in your feet, it will significantly detract from your sense of feel in the front.

The UK Ntecs are great tires.... I encourage everyone to buy them new, use them for 3-4 days then sell them to me super cheap!

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

Last edited by dammyneckhurts; 11-18-2012 at 02:47 PM..
 
Old 11-18-2012, 04:30 PM   #10
Pit Crew
YOUNG HEART 750's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: KLAMATH FALLS, OREGON

I Ride: 09 GSX-R 750 Track 07 Aprilia Tuono Street 09 Yamaha R1 sold
You can always sell those Ntec take offs to me as we'll. Love those things!!!!

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 11-19-2012, 06:42 PM   #11
Endorsed
fattiremike's Avatar
OP
 
Joined: Oct 2009
From: Olympia, WA

I Ride: 2007 RWB VFR800, 2005 CBR 600rr Trackbike
I am thinking of these:

http://stores.racetireservice.com/-s...h-A/Detail.bok

Any thoughts? Thanks everyone for all of the replies/comments.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 11-19-2012, 06:48 PM   #12
Novice Racer
Sentor's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
From: Beaverton, OR

I Ride: 2008 R6 Race Bike - #52 - And whatever's in the shop!
The newest compounds of US Tires are great (after march 2012 i believe). The others don't last very long.

12 trackdays on $510 is great... most people get 5 out of a set of q2's... And at 230+m/b I think it's easier to get BETTER tires, that last just as long.

And the 6680 front is the best I've had. It's stiff, but soft enough to turn in and hold grip. The 6838 or 6680 rear is awesome.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 11-21-2012, 08:55 AM   #13
Knee Dragger
SteveO's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
From: Thurston County, WA.

I Ride: GSXR1000
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by theJrod View Post
Then do not switch to the 7704/7712. The 6680/6838 is the Med+. The 7704 is the Soft/Med.
You'll tear the crap out of a 7704 if the temp is below 70, and it only has marginally more grip. The 6*** rear will last much longer overall.

Honestly I think there's something else going on if your issue is they feel slippery. There isn't a better tire out there, only trade-offs. The Pirelli SC1 will give you the same grip as a 7704 at a significantly lower price, but neither the Pirelli SC1 nor the 7704 will last as long as the 6680/6838. How's your throttle hand? Do you have a prominent "wear band" about 1.5-2" from the edge?
You see this wear band on numerous tires at the track. What is the root cause for this prominent wear band?

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 11-21-2012, 11:35 AM   #14
Railer
Buckwheat's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
From: Pasco, WA

I Ride: '96 Triumph Speed Triple & '08 Aprilia Tuono
Acceleration.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 11-21-2012, 11:41 AM   #15
Novice Racer
Sentor's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
From: Beaverton, OR

I Ride: 2008 R6 Race Bike - #52 - And whatever's in the shop!
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooterRash View Post
You see this wear band on numerous tires at the track. What is the root cause for this prominent wear band?
Poor suspension settings, too soft of tire compound and abrupt acceleration out of a corner, rather than smooth roll on.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 11-21-2012, 12:22 PM   #16
Licensed
LivnLife4Fun's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
From: Poulsbo, WA

I Ride: that's right, I #^($* RIDE!!!
Had pirelli angels for 2011, switched to Q2s for 2012.
Loved the Q2s on the track, its cornering is fantastic. Thought it would be my new fave tire. But on the street I ended up missing the feedback I get from the Angels. I can even tell from its feedback when the pavement type/condition changes. And I believe its deep grooves do help with grippage. I'm switching back to Pirelli angels for 2013. yeah, it's not a true track tire but for me it does get the job done and lasts!

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 11-21-2012, 01:17 PM   #17
Endorsed
fattiremike's Avatar
OP
 
Joined: Oct 2009
From: Olympia, WA

I Ride: 2007 RWB VFR800, 2005 CBR 600rr Trackbike
“ Quote:
You can always sell those Ntec take offs to me as we'll. Love those things!!!!
“ Quote:
The UK Ntecs are great tires.... I encourage everyone to buy them new, use them for 3-4 days then sell them to me super cheap!
Obviously, I am one of the guys interested in buying UK Ntecs, and using them til they are bald, not selling them barely used!

“ Quote:
Do you have a prominent "wear band" about 1.5-2" from the edge?
The tire really looks good to me. I will post up a pick of it later. I am at work (on break of course!) right now.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 11-21-2012, 05:55 PM   #18
Licensed
dammyneckhurts's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
From: Whistler BC
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooterRash View Post
You see this wear band on numerous tires at the track. What is the root cause for this prominent wear band?
ScooterRash, this is not specifically meant for you… sitting here bored and this is the closest I can get to a speed fix so I will ramble on for a bit..... This is just general information that I think a lot of riders can benefit from in response to your question.

Generally speaking that obvious wear band is because people are not adding any significant throttle until the bike is mostly upright. Then when it feels safe, they are hammering the throttle on all at once. This method of accelerating can be a smart thing to do for those that don’t have safe efficient cornering technique.

A lot of experienced track riders will say the solution to getting even tire wear is to start adding throttle sooner. This may be absolutely perfect advice for a couple of riders, but generally speaking “most” riders are already adding throttle way too soon as it is.

More specifically, they are letting off the brakes too soon and therefore getting on the gas too soon. The problem is that if a rider releases the brake too soon, and gets back on the gas right away they don’t have the bike pointed the right direction yet. They are now adding lean angle and adding throttle at the same time. This is a bad thing, but most riders are smart enough to know that they can’t add too much throttle or they will crash, so they wait, and wait, and wait, till the bike finally gets pointed up the track at the end of the corner, stand the bike up and hammer the throttle. Asking this type of rider to add more throttle earlier in the corner will absolutely lead to a crash. This is one of the most alarming mistakes I see people make at the track, so often I am still on the brakes entering a corner and the person I am passing is already on the gas... scares the hell outa me!


If this sounds like you, you need to understand that generally speaking we want to have our max lean and the slowest part of the corner at about the same location.

When you let your brakes off too soon your slowest point is pretty much right there at the spot where you let off the brakes, maybe a tad further for those that are coasting into a corner. Then when you add throttle very early, especially before you have made a significant change in direction, you are forced to add more lean angle as you get further into the corner. Now you are 3/4 of the way through the corner and this is where you point of max lean occurs. you can see how the slowest point is early in the corner, and the point of max lean is late in the corner.

Understand that your goal is to have these two things happen in the same place closer the middle of the corner. Please understand that this is a general concept that you can apply to many corners on many racetracks. There are however many corners that are better to have the slowest point and max lean very early in the corner, and there are some corners where the slowest point and max lean should be very late in the corner.

Regardless, the similarity is that max lean and slow point are generally in about the same spot, not opposite ends of the corner.

When your max lean and slowest point happen at the same location somewhere closer the mid-point of the corner, you can be in a better position to have your bike pointed in the right direction so you can gradually add throttle and reduce lean angle at the same time. This will give you more even tire wear, and allow you to accelerate harder out of the corner because you are reducing lean as you add throttle.

In conclusion, generally speaking it’s not a throttle problem that is the direct cause of this “band of tire wear”….. it’s a braking problem.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

Last edited by dammyneckhurts; 11-21-2012 at 06:14 PM..
 
Old 11-21-2012, 07:13 PM   #19
Defiler of Threads
TRAIL BOSS's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
From: Arlington

I Ride: for OPRT with an 07 SXV550 (The Darkness)
“ Quote:
Originally Posted by LivnLife4Fun View Post
. And I believe its deep grooves do help with grippage.
Unless you're riding on dirt, gravel or some other soft surface, this is false. Grooves, siping and void space in general means less rubber in contact with the pavement. That means less traction.

The Angels are great tires... Just don't make the mistake of believing that the siping adds traction to dry pavement.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter
 
Old 11-21-2012, 08:40 PM   #20
Endorsed
fattiremike's Avatar
OP
 
Joined: Oct 2009
From: Olympia, WA

I Ride: 2007 RWB VFR800, 2005 CBR 600rr Trackbike
I tried to upload some photos of the back tire, but it won't work! I will try again tomorrow.

__________________
Follow PNW Riders on Facebook and Twitter

Last edited by fattiremike; 11-21-2012 at 08:48 PM..
 
Reply

  PNW Riders > PNW Riders > Track Time


Thread Tools
Display Modes



/pnwriders @pnwriders PNW Riders RSS Feed